-------------------- The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Posts: 12853 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Sorry to hear, old friend, You really should get that checked out. Posts: 14491 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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-------------------- The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Posts: 12853 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Yeah, Marduk, you're totally bonkers; but I like you anyway. Posts: 14491 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
see the other dead giveaway to the clinical diagnosis of insanity is recognising the subjects ability to transfer their own feelings onto those around them.
so Brig and wirelesguru1
does everyone around you often appear to be bonkers
posted
Naaaaaaw, just a select few Marduk. But you're still amoung friends. Posts: 14491 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Planet X.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. maybe Hoagland and the Russians will find it on the Moon. I haven't seen any rogue planets in the sky yet.
Posts: 14491 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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wirelessguru1
unregistered
posted
Well Lord Marduk, I did enjoy prior action-reaction with you regardless if you're bonkers...
..and, of course, we all know that there is indeed a very, very fine line between sanity and insanity...
..which is our own "personal" ability to maintain proper reference(s)...even when we're switching "reality" channels...
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Marduk, where did you get that name. I have a reason for asking. Fifty or so years ago, when I was a working journalist, I had a correspondent who wrote in all of these really weird theories he wanted me to evaluate. He sounded a lot like Volitzer but it would have had to be Volitzers Granddaddy. Anyway he kept theorising about a planet that was between Mars and Jupiter that all life came from after it blew up (where the asteroids are now). He called that planet Marduk. Coincidence I'm sure but I thought maybe it had a source I wasn't aware of. You were the first mention of that name that I have come across since my newspaper days.
Posts: 14491 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Its a Babylonian name. There is also a God called Bel (lord) Marduk who was head of the Babylonian pantheon. Bel Marduk has fifty divine names which basically represent a reordering of older Akkadian Gods and divine happenings because when the Babylonian Civilisation began it made a break with tradition by rejecting the old Akkadian Gods *. This vacuum had to be filled. One of the honours bestowed is the Akkado-Babylonian name for Jupiter, which crosses into the morning sky in december. The Babylonian name for this occurence was nēberu nēberu = crossing (sound familiar ?) http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd/epsd/e148.html
this correspondant
was he an israeli ?
So anyway. I chose Marduk because I have studied the Mesopotamian cultures (more than sitchin) and its about the most prominent name in it. It was also the names of several kings. It in no way means that I compare myself to a god anymore than thousands of Mexican kids think they are the messiah. Its just a Babylonian name.
* one of the Gods rejected was Ellil (sumerian Enlil). He created mankind from the blood of a god and clay from the ground. He also sent a great flood because he was annoyed that his creation wasn't behaving itself. He was demonised for this act by the babylonians because being very practical figured that any god who had attempted genocide on every living thing on earth wasn't to be trusted.
Then 1000 years later The Hebrews were enslaved by the Babylonians after the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadrezzar II and got to hear about all the old Gods who the Babylonians (their new owners) didn't like. being clever they thought it would be a good idea of quiet rebellion (open rebellion not a good idea when most of the punishments under babylonian law for naughty slaves were death) to create their own God and attribute to him many legends of the Old Akkadian gods in the same way that the Babylonians had honoured Bel Marduk, the rest as they say is history. Many Hebrews being quite well educated by comparison to their babylonian owners were employed as scribes in Babylonian libraries where they were responsible for translating old stories. Many of the surviving translations are actually signed "Rabbi"
if you want some evidence of this heres some extracts of the flood story (written by the Akkadians around 2300bce) which appears in the Epic of Gilgamesh and attributed to Enlil interspersed with their Biblical equivalents (written 1500 years later) and attributed to YHWH/Jehovah
Gilgamesh: - When a seventh day arrived I sent forth a dove and released it. The dove went off, but came back to me; no perch was visible so it circled back to me.
Genesis 7 8 And he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground. 9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him to the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth
Gilgamesh I sent forth a raven and released it. The raven went off, and saw the waters slither back. It eats, it scratches, it bobs, but does not circle back to me.
Genesis 7 7 And he sent forth a raven, and it went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth
there are no new stories, there are just old stories retold, especially when there is no penalty for plagiarism in the ancient world. If they tried it thesedays they'd probably get sued.
posted
> It in no way means that I compare myself to a > god anymore than thousands of Mexican kids > think they are the messiah. Its just a > Babylonian name.
Sorry Lord Marduk, but you simply cannot hide your energy DNA...
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Interesting tale Marduk. I was aware of Baal but was not aware that he had a last name. That word, you used, Sitchen; that word can really muck up a sentence. Talk about a monumental blowhard. He has to have bronze gonads to live with himself. I'd sooner try to make a religion out if Goldilocks and the three bears than the totally off the wall drivel that charlatan spouts. The trouble is there are morons who are so bored in life that they actually believe that crap. Gives them a bit of bloody excitement. But aside from that; thanks for the Marduk infomation.
Posts: 14491 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I forgot, Marduk, you asked about the correspondent. I have no idea of his nationality. I don't think he was black because when I pointed out some rather glaring fallicies in his theories he asked me if I was black. From what I could ascertain from his letters he lived in rural West Virginia on a farm of some sort. I don't think he had much education, but he obviously knew some of the greek histories and fables as he would bring up something from time to time that had a greek origin.Maybe he was Greek.
Posts: 14491 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
its not a tale Brig its factual history that you can go check for yourself. And Bel Marduk isn't Ba'al, Ba'al is just the west semitic word for "lord". Babylonia used an east semitic dialect. The Ba'al most often referenced in biblical texts is Ba'al Hadad, a god of the rain, thunder, fertility and agriculture, and the lord of Heaven. His name was so holy only priests were allowed to utter it so it became common place to just say "lord/baal".
the Canaanite God Hadad was the guy they were worshipping before they came up with YHWH, who is mostly based on the deity of YAH the inundator who was the personal God of Assyrian Canaanite generals. Hadad himself is a cheap copy of Adad (aka ishkur) the Mesopotamian god of storms who is attested from millenia earlier than the existence of Cananite religion. So they weren't setting any precedents by inventing a deity while exiled in Babylon
posted
The Hebrew God goes a lot further back in time than that Marduk. Like I said before the Priestly class of Hebrews came up with YHWY for the name of God. But, as far as I can find, God has never revealed His name to anyone. Kinda reminds me of the old Scifi story "The 9 Billion names of God". Funny thing is I taught school with a guy with the last name Hadad.Its been a long time Marduk, I could have confused Bel Marduk and Baal Hadad. Makes no difference they were both false gods. Now lets get back on track with good old Nibiru, the nonexistant wild planet of Zacharia, the charalatan, Sitchen. Posts: 14491 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
no he doesn't Brig, The Hebrew god was invented after Hebrewism which is defined with the beginning of a distinct language around 1000bce.
This is attested archaeologically with the Gezer calender. Before that the peoples later known as Hebrews were canaanite polytheists and worshipped gods of the cannanite pantheon like El and Astarte. The Bible is a redaction of real history and is not a historical document in its own right. If it was it wouldn't claim that YHWH first revealed himself to Abraham around 1800bce in Ur of the Chaldees when the Chaldean empire didn't exist until 1000bce.
the facts that you have learned are all biblical truths, they don't stand up to scientific evidence. In that way they are just as relevant as Sitchins Nibiru. Unlike Sitchins Nibiru they don't have to Faith is not supposed to be supported by evidence and it makes me wonder why people who claim to have it always seem to require facts to bolster their belief.
if Bel Marduk and Baal Hadad were both false gods which one is correct ?
you mean just the one you worship don't you. Whoever it is Brig if he claims he sent a great flood then hes a plagiarist of the highest order. It was Enlil who did that befoe any other God, if youre saying he was a false god as well then you're really saying that you're god is claiming to have done things that false gods did. thats not very impressive
Sitchin claims there was a great flood as well. Geologists and science have proven there wasn't Edward Chiera (famous assyriologist) once said that "God created man in his own image and we immediately returned the favour". We continue to do so.
Posts: 395 | From: newbury,berkshire,england | Registered: Nov 2004
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wirelessguru1
unregistered
posted
Hi Marduk and who/whom specifically is "inventing" these gods??? LOL!
It also seems to me that you are directly relating gods to language!?
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No,no, Marduk, here we disagree again, tsk,tsk. There definitely was a worldwide flood of immense proportions. More and more scientists are coming to that conclusion. It just wasn't quite as extensive as the poor suvivors had thought. But it was extensive enough to effectively wipe out civilization at that time. People had to pretty much start all over. The big problem you have here is that Mesopotamia had the written word before the hebrews did. On the other hand the Hebrews had an extensive oral tradition. The accounts of the flood by the oral traditions of the hebrews was far more logical than the written version you refer to. But the flood did occur around 12,000BC and there were a couple of lesser floods later that also wrecked some havoc on civilized centers; but not on the order of that first one. Probably, Marduk, you and I should shy away from religious matters. On most things we aggree; on religion we do not. You won't break my faith and I seriously doubt I can convert you; so staying off the subject would save us both a lot of unnecessary typing. Dorian and I have, more or less, the same agreement.
Posts: 14491 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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wirelessguru1
unregistered
posted
All civilizations are periodically wiped out by catastrophism! Evidence is rather clear on all of this...
The last big change happened at half age/era precession macro cycle which was about 12,955 years ago (according to the old calendars)! Furthermore, the end of the present precession macro cycle is coming within 5 years now...again according to the old calendars...
Furthermore, EM flow reversal takes place at each half cycle!!!
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quote:More and more scientists are coming to that conclusion
thats pseudo history Brig, there was no worldwide flood or massive flooding of any kind around 12,000bce that is later accounted for in the Bible or any other religious text. Seeing as you are taking the stance that you think there was then perhaps you could link to a credible site that presents evidence ?
you're doing exactly the thing I just mentioned, attempting to bolster your faith with science.
quote:All civilizations are periodically wiped out by catastrophism!
catastrophism was an orthodox belief in the 19th century wireless, bout time you read something not written by a pseudo author.
not one ancient world culture was destroyed by a catastrophe
posted
The only thing that holds up are earthquakes storms in any evidence. Plato did say earthquakes and floods destroyed Atlantis, not just one biblical like flood or just one earthquake. Posts: 11378 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000
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But I should "clarify" my position and say that civilizations are destroyed and not cultures! Since "cultures", just like mind, are "soft" (software) and, therefore, cannot be destroyed...in the same manner!
So, if more than one member of the culture survives the various catastrophes, then the "culture" (or memory of the culture) indeed goes on...but NOT the civilization, of course...
Also, in theory no species is ever destroyed either if/when the "code" (firmware, DNA) is stored one way or the other...
posted
I don't engage in action reaction posts, I simply report all your obnoxious comments to the mods
so in other words you are completely unable to link to something that discusses any civilisation destroyed by a catastrophe ?
quote:All civilizations are periodically wiped out by catastrophism!
this is what you claimed earlier because your link of a martian asteroid doesn't count unless you have some proof that it is even remotely connected to the subject we're discussing ?
Posts: 395 | From: newbury,berkshire,england | Registered: Nov 2004
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wirelessguru1
unregistered
posted
Say What!? What "obnoxious" comments!?
..and what sort of "link" are you referring to!?
You say "because your link of a martian asteroid doesn't count unless you have some proof that it is even remotely connected to the subject we're discussing". Of course it is "related"...
Look at any planet (even our own moon) and you will see all of the evidence that you will ever need for catastrophic impacts!!!
That, of course, does not even count the large Earthquakes, Volcanos, Hurricanes, Tsunamis, etc, etc...
So what other "evidence" do you really need???
Are you in DENIAL of catastrophism!!!???
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I am denying that you have any evidence that any civilisation on this planet was ever wiped out by a catastrophie because clearly you haven't presented any
having trouble backing your assertions ?
then don't make them
Posts: 395 | From: newbury,berkshire,england | Registered: Nov 2004
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wirelessguru1
unregistered
posted
> I am denying that you have any evidence that > any civilisation on this planet was ever wiped > out by a catastrophie because clearly you > haven't presented any
Of course I have plenty of evidence: (1) There are many cities under water at various places in the world AND; (2) even with the simple escavations on land there is plenty of evidence since the older layers are always underground at lower levels...many under layers of ash, etc...
(3) There is also plenty of evidence of large volcanic eruptions (a form of catastrophism) and other large craters from either those large volcanic eruptions or from large impacts! So wake up!!!
> having trouble backing your assertions ? > then don't make them
posted
you can't link to one credible site that claims a human civilisation was destroyed by a catastrophie,
you're just running the same old tired pseudo crap about sunken cities which were all part of a civilisation that existed after their subsidence
and apart from pompeii and herculaneum which were not civilisations in theior own right what are you talking about
stratiography is not evidence of catastrophie.
do you have any real details ir is it all personal belief for you ?
I'm not seeing ghosts and apart from it being a completely ludicrous description of me and a perfectly valid description of you that claim is an obvious ad hominem attack. If you can't back your claims with credible links then you're talking out of the wrong hole
posted
qoute-Well when you actually have some proof that the place even existed maybe that would be valid
til then ..................
Tartesso ( atlantis) did exist according to Roman, Iberia and Bible history.According to the records of North African tribes, the western island kingdom was known as Atarantes or Atlantioi.
PERIODICITY OF NATURAL CATASTROPHES
A) Discontinuous Subsidence
Around 2500 years ago, in ~ 500 b.C., some ancient European towns founded on river deltas underwent a sudden subsidence which brought them below the sea level. The most evident example is that of the city of Sybaris,(Calabria), which underwent a subsidence of about 6 m. The same thing happened at the same time (~ 500 b.C) to the city of Velia (Campania), which was buried under 4 m af alluvium. Still in 500 B.C. the city of Tartesso, Southern Spain, is said to have disappeared in a short time.
It is foreseen that around 2010 the same phenomenon will very likely repeat itself ,due to the recurring cycle of G, which every 2510 years hits our planet either with the effect of a decrease or , alternately, with an increase of gravitational values . The next decrease in G will change the electric field of the solid Earth, with the consequence of a rapid consolidation of al the fine sediments which were deposited in the last 12,500 years. Entire cities built on river deltas, such as Bangkok and New Orleans, will undergo a sudden subsidence of a few meters, and consequently many of their urban zones will end up below sea level.
In the Netherlands, the Rhine and Meuse deltas are also exposed to the same dangewr. In Italy, many areas of recent deposition will suffer heavy subsidence phenomena, such as for instance the zone of the International Airport of Fiumicino in Rome and the area of the Tower of Pisa.
quote:Tartesso ( atlantis) did exist according to Roman, Iberia and Bible history.According to the records of North African tribes, the western island kingdom was known as Atarantes or Atlantioi.
and by the same type of evidence so do Hogwarts, the land of Oz and Never Never land and any location only described in text with no archaeological evidence. Hell, the pit of tartarus, the fields of elysium etc
you seem to have missed the point with your evidence
subsidence in river deltas is not even slightly related to the subject we are discussing which is ancient civilisation wiped out by a catastrophie.
now as I already know that there is no credible evidence for this type of event, you might as well admit it. You're fighting for a lost cause with no evidence to back claims that you personally believe. As such you are attempting to put forward articles of faith just like Brig was with his belief in an outdated middle eastern cult religion.
I don't see him convincing anyone here that there is any evidence of a global biblical type flood anymore than I can see either of you two producing any evidence that stands up to the slightest scrutiny
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