The only reason for that Orichalcum post from Perseus tufts was to show what the scientific community thinks of Orichalcum and the clues it provides to it's existence.

I am not in agreement with Orichalcum as Brass or Gold for the matter.

Orichalcum was a distinct material different from the other common materials such as Brass, copper or Gold.

The final product of course would have to be some form of an Alchemical transmutation with the most likely ingredient of Electrum to give it "brilliance".

We have discussed other possible additives such as Copper, Cinnabar,Zinc,and Crystaline materials to compliment the Alchemical ingredients.

Orichalcum was a rare material which also relates to Serpentine rocks found near Volcano's from immense teuctonic earth pressures and is also quite rare today.

Most commonly the Serpentine rocks were green in color but to consider that Atlantis disappeared and was an island which would have resulted from underground Volcanic formations and the Atlantic split, there could have been a form of Red Serpentine found there or it could have been Dyed Red with either the Sap from the ancient Dragon Blood tree or Amber.

I still feel that Amber and Electrum, the two most commonly sought after materials in ancient times played a role in the transmutation to the final Orichalcum which would have been started from an Elixir or "Sulphuric Vinegar" as it's base.

The single closest example to orichalcum that we can see today is what I feel also attributes to the early Etruscans with the magnificient Lion bracelet on my website in the Mysterean link.

Scroll down.
http://www.mts.net/~perasa/Mysterean.htm

You have some interesting pictures on your website!
I found, what you mentioned:

Orichalcum, (Araklum) lion bracelet, Etruscan, 800 bC.

I have seen this item myself in the Villa Giulia Museum, Rome/Italy. The description is: "Gold fibula, from the Bernardini tomb at Palestrine (Preneste). Embossed work and granulation. 675 BC"

It looked like gold (I could not prove it due to the security window), and it looked as if it was made in the "granulation technique" (soldering very small gold spheres onto a gold surface. This was a frequently used technique in the 7th century BC, many precious golden fibula from the "Tomba Regolini-Galassi" in Cerveteri, now in the Vaticane Museum in Rome, are made in this way. The know-how was forgotten in our time, till the goldsmiths Nestler and Formigli found it out anew by experiment).

I know the Etruscan culture very well, because I travelled 40 times in this region of Italy where the Etruscans lived, before they were conquered by the Romans. I visited nearly all Etruscan museums and exhibitions and have two shelves full of books about the Etruscans, in German, French, English and Italian language. But I never found mentioning the metal "Araklum". According to a etruscan-italian dictionary, the etruscan word "arac" means "hawk". I am very interested in your source for the Etruscan word "Araklum", and why you use it for a golden item?

By the way, Riven,

The picture of the castle in the same page, below the Etruscan bracelet is Bodrum Castle in Aegean Turkey.

Tavola Eugubine Script "R"
http://www.maravot.com/Translation_T.EugubineR.html

R219 to the Ionians of the flesh I dispatch the matters of the Atigerie of Achaia (Greece) they hold dear the Araklum
R229 of Gordos you are of you to celebrate;

Thank you very much for the link to Mel Copeland´s translation of the Eugubine Script "R". From there I could find Copeland´s other stuff. It is a very great amount of stuff, and will need much time to study it.

thank you, with your last post you made it clear: ORICHALCUM WAS A METAL!

When Homerus mentioned earrings from orichalcum, it is probable that they were from metal, but they could have been eventually from amber or a precious stone.

I think you may be right about Pantellaria all along.

We've seen a lot of rocks and both Obsidian and Serpentine are the most outstanding minings of days gone bye.

What would you do with Obsidian if you had some?

Especially RED OBSIDIAN.

OBSIDIAN IS HOT STUFF
By Jim Miller, B.Sc., M.Sc. Geology* http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/vw_hyperexchange/obsidian.html

Blade, red obsidian
Yurok
1-1542
http://hearstmuseum.berkeley.edu/exhibitions/ncc/gallery_3_2_2.html

Red Obsidian Crown based Arrowhead. http://www.obsidiandesigns.com/ds101.html

"Triple Flow Obsidian Skinning Knife" http://www.obsidianarts.com/page2G.html

Blue Obsidian Arrowheads http://www.mashell.com/~estrauss/634-37.htm

Arrow and Dart Points, Knife blade http://www.mashell.com/~estrauss/630-33.htm

Red & Pink Sphere Corner http://www.spherestoyou.com/Sshoppe/Miscred.htm

Even more peculiar is that OBSIDIAN can also be made into......GLASS.

This is definitely a prime candidate to build PILLARS with that would burst with fire.

So, how would you go about making an OBSIDIAN Pillar ATALANTE?

Bear in mind that I still think ELECTRUM,COPPER,ZINC,and AMBER were ingredients.

Thank you for your wunderful links to red obsidian.
You know that one of the participants of the Milos conference, Christian Schoppe with his theory: Atlantis was in the Black Sea and was distroyed 5500 BC, thinks that obsidian was orichalcum.

Red obsidian was not only found in Oregon, but also on the island of Heligoland near the German coast in the North Sea, claimed by Spanuth and Rathjen to have been the place of the Royal city of Atlantis. (But these authors think that orichalcum was amber, which was also found there.)
The obsidian from Heligoland was traded in the neolithic time as material for weapons and tools, and was found in depots e.g. in the Netherlands and France.

I'm convinced that Plato was refering to some kind of copper alloy. Probably brass or arsenic bronze.

Regards, Jonas Bergman

Excuse me, I had forgotten this in the meantime. Otherwise I would not have seriously thought by myself, if not e.g. cinnabar or a red stone could have been orichalcum. But it seems, that it is not useless to repeat older statements from time to time (when they are still valid).

Orichalcum was both a stone and a metal.

It is a mystical secret preserved by the reserved.

In it's stone form you could sculpt pillars.

In it's metal form you could cover them.

Orichalcum is not Bronze.

Metals come from minerals come from stone,earth.

The more primitive tribes would only have heated it to moderate 600deg temp where later advanced tribes realized that hotter temps were needed around 700-1600 degrees.

This led to new metals like Bronze,around 3500bC.

Atlantis was covered with Brass,Tin,and Orichalcum.

The earliest known copper article is a pendant dating from about 9000 BC in Asia Minor.

brass: copper + zinc
bronze: copper + tin
cupro nickel: copper + nickel

In Britain, the Bronze Age started in about 2000 BC. Copper and tin were mined in Cornwall and Wales. At one time, Britain was the biggest producer of tin in the world, supplying those countries which had copper but no tin to make bronze.

(This is a good point about the abundance of Tin in Atlantis and it's near proximity to Britain in the Atlantic.)

Much later, copper and zinc were alloyed to make brass.

So maybe it was actually Gold and not Brass that covered the Atlantean wall.

Sometimes I think the other wall could have been silver and not tin?

A Short History of Metals
http://neon.mems.cmu.edu/cramb/Processing/history.html

Process Metallurgy is one of the oldest applied sciences. Its history can be traced back to 6000 BC.

Currently there are 86 known metals. Before the 19th century only 24 of these metals had been discovered and, of these 24 metals, 12 were discovered in the 18th century. Therefore, from the discovery of the first metals - gold and copper until the end of the 17th century, some 7700 years, only 12 metals were known. Four of these metals, arsenic, antimony , zinc and bismuth , were discovered in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, while platinum was discovered in the 16th century. The other seven metals, known as the Metals of Antiquity, were the metals upon which civilisation was based. These seven metals were:

(1) Gold (ca) 6000BC

(2) Copper,(ca) 4200BC

(3) Silver,(ca) 4000BC

(4) Lead, (ca) 3500BC

(5) Tin, (ca) 1750BC

(6) Iron,smelted, (ca) 1500BC

(7) Mercury, (ca) 750BC

From 4,000 to 6,000 BC was the Chalcolithic period which was when copper came into common use.

By 5,000 BC copper sheet was being made

By 3600 BC the first copper smelted artifacts were found in the Nile valley and copper rings, bracelets, chisels were found. By 3000 BC weapons, tools etc. were widely found. Tools and weapons of utilitarian value were now within society, however, only kings and royalty had such tools; it would take another 500 years before they reached the peasants.

Malachite, a green friable stone, was the source of copper in the early smelters. Originally it was thought that the smelting of copper was by chance dropping of malachite into campfires. However, campfire temperatures are normally in the region of 600-650 C, whereas, 700-800 C is necessary for reduction. It is more probable that early copper smelting was discovered by ancient potters whose clay firing furnaces could reach temperatures of 1100-1200 C. If Malachite was added to these furnaces copper nodules would easily be found. Although the first smelted copper was found in the Nile valley, it is thought that this copper was brought to Egypt by the Gerzeans and copper smelting was produced first in Western Asia between 4000 and 4300 BC.

Although copper can be found free in nature the most important sources are the minerals cuprite, malachite, azurite, chalcopyrite and bornite. Copper is reddish colored, malleable, ductile and a good conductor of heat and electricity. Approximately 90% 0f the worlds primary copper originates in sulfide ores.

By 2500 BC the cupellation process was the normal mode of silver manufacture.

Smelted copper was rarely pure, in fact, it is clear that by 2500 BC the Sumerians had recognized that if different ores were blended together in the smelting process, a different type of copper, which flowed more easily, was stronger after forming and was easy to cast, could be made. An axe head from 2500 BC revealed that it contained 11% tin and 89% copper. This was of course the discovery of @b(Bronze). However, by 2000 BC copper implements contained very little tin as local reserves of tin had been exhausted.

The first tin artifacts date back to 2000 B.C., however, it was not until 1800 B.C. that tin smelting became common in western Asia.

By 1400 BC. bronze was the predominant metal alloy

Mercury was also known to the ancients and has been found in tombs dating back to 1500 and 1600 BC.

Mercury was widely used because of its ability to dissolve silver and gold (amalgamation) and was the basis of many plating technologies

An iron bowl containing cinnabar is put into an earthenware container and sealed with clay. It is then set on a fire and the soot which sticks to the cover is quicksilver"

These seven metals: gold, silver, copper, lead, tin, mercury and iron, and the alloys bronze and electrum were the starting point of metallurgy

Chalco lithic >> Ori chalcos.

From Greek "chalkos", copper, and "pyrites", strike fire.

A major ore of Copper. Common in sulfide veins and disseminated in igneous rocks

Just we have found out that orichalcum must have been a metal, but now you say it was not only metal, but also the stone from which the metal was made:

Quote:
> Orichalcum was both a stone and a metal.
> It is a mystical secret preserved by the reserved.
> In it's stone form you could sculpt pillars.
> In it's metal form you could cover them.
> Orichalcum is not Bronze. <

Also Akata has always stated that orichalcum is a today unknown mineral or metal, which was only found at the Azores.

You wrote that you were born on the Azores. Have you any more detailed knowledge?

Chalkopyrite, the yellow-golden sulfide of copper,is found everywhere on the globe. From the pictures in your link you can see, that there is no glimmer of a red colour.

From metallurgy we know, that the only two existing coloured metals are gold and copper. Pure gold has always a yellow golden colour; only by alloying copper into gold its colour becomes more red. And also all other existing alloys of red or reddish colour must contain copper (e.g. brass, bronze, copper-nickel). So, when you think that orichalcum is a still unknown metal/alloy, it has to contain copper.

[1] I will sing of stately Aphrodite, gold-crowned and beautiful, whose dominion is the walled cities of all sea-set Cyprus. There the moist breath of the western wind wafted her over the waves of the loud-moaning sea [5] in soft foam, and there the gold-filleted Hours welcomed her joyously. They clothed her with heavenly garments: on her head they put a fine, well-wrought crown of gold, and in her pierced ears they hung ornaments of orichalc and precious gold, [10] and adorned her with golden necklaces over her soft neck and snow-white breasts, jewels which the gold-filleted Hours wear themselves whenever they go to their father's house to join the lovely dances of the gods. And when they had fully decked her, [15] they brought her to the gods, who welcomed her when they saw her, giving her their hands. Each one of them prayed that he might lead her home to be his wedded wife, so greatly were they amazed at the beauty of violet-crowned Cytherea.

Hail, sweetly-winning, coy-eyed goddess! Grant that I may gain the victory in this contest, [20] and order you my song. And now I will remember you and another song also.

From Hesiod Shield of Hercules there is no mention of Orichalcum as Oxfords Perseus Tufts claims.
Perseus Tufts merely assumes it is bronze.

Line 122
So he said, and put upon his legs greaves of shining bronze.

Couldn´t it be, that the translator of Perseus Tufts, not knowing exactly what "orichalcum" was, translated it with "shining bronze"?

XXXVII.

At this mountain begins the grove, which consists chiefly of plane trees, and reaches down to the sea. Its boundaries are, on the one side the river Pantinus, on the other side another river, called Amymane, after the daughter of Danaus. Within the grave are images of Demeter Prosymne and of Dionysus. Of Demeter there is a seated image of no great size.

[2] Both are of stone, but in another temple is a seated wooden image of Dionysus Saotes (Savior), while by the sea is a stone image of Aphrodite. They say that the daughters of Danaus dedicated it, while Danaus himself made the sanctuary of Athena by the Pontinus. The mysteries of the Lernaeans were established, they say, by Philammon. Now the words which accompany the ritual are evidently of no antiquity

[3] and the inscription also, which I have heard is written on the heart made of orichalcum,

[3] ha de ękousa epi tęi kardiai gegraphthai tęi pepoięmenęi tou oreichalkou,