Plato does not state that Atlanteans made any tools or weapons from metal. This is very preculiar. The impression I get from Plato is that this Atlantean place was a mining colony for generating metals, which the Atlanteans exported, thus acquiring "a large supply of imports" which were presumably the tools, etc.

In Critias 114E Plato states that "the land itself furnished the [necessities] of daily life. The grammar which Plato uses here implies that "metals/minerals" were the necessities of daily life. And these items included both the nugget ("solid") and the smeltable ("fusible") forms of minerals.

The upstream forests and villages which Plato mentions were supplying trees and charcoal for metal smelting operations. Wood products were floated downriver to the central community.

Crit. 114E „For because of their headship they had a large supply of imports from abroad, and the island itself furnished most of the requirements of daily life – metals, to begin with, both the hard kind and the fusible kind, which are extracted by mining, and also that kind which is now known only by name but was more than a name then, there being mines of it in many places of the island – I mean ORICHALCUM, which was the most precious of the metals then known, except gold.“
Crit.116B: „And they covered with brass, as though with a plaster, all the circumference of the wall which surrounded the outermost circle; and that of the inner one they coated with tin; and that which encompassed the acropolis itself with ORICHALCUM which sparkled like fire.“

Crit. 116D: „As to the interior (of the temple), they made the roof all of ivory in appearance, variegated with gold and silver and ORICHALCUM, and all the rest of the walls and pillars and floors they covered with ORICHALCUM.“

Crit. 119C: „But their authority over one another and their (the 10 kings) mutual relations were governed by the precepts of Poseidon, as handed down by them by the law and by the records inscribed by the first princes on a pillar of ORICHALCUM, which was placed within the temple of Poseidon in the centre of the island.“ , and after hunting a bull, „they led it up to the pillar and cut its throat over the top of the pillar, raining down blood on the inscription.“

When the Atlanteans were mining ores and melting metals, it is self-evident that they were also making tools and weapons from it.
The first metal objects were made from nuggets of copper and gold, found by chance in the rivers. Later it was found that by heating some blue coloured stones with a charcoal fire it was possible to get the valuable copper nuggets intentionally. Mining and ore melting was done to cast the produced liquid metal into moulds for making daggers, arrow heads, axes and the like from it.
Mining cannot be separated from tool making.

When reading the "Critias" again I discovered, that the Atlanteans obviously loved the polishing of metal surfaces. Otherwise they would not have covered all the outside of Poseidon´s temple with silver. Without frequent polishing, silver looses its shiny look very soon and becomes grey and at least black. (another tarnish!).
When they were polishing fans, they could use brass as covering for their walls as well. A chance for oreichalcum being brass ?

Dear Atlantologists Friends.

It is an honor us to be able to share with all you, the investigations and profits of scientific atlantologist Spanish Georgeos Diaz-Montexano.

As all know we published a part of the Georgeos Diaz's Book that spoke on the Oreichalcum.

Or we are finishing translating the other part of the extensive chapter on the Oreichalcum and the Metals of Atlantis and soon we will publish it in this Forum of AR.

Meanwhile we advanced that the discoveries that Georgeos Díaz has made and the conclusions who has arrived on the matter, are truely surprising! and once again allow to confirm that the Island or peninsula (Nêsos) of Atlantis was the same Peninsula of Iberia and perhaps part of Morocco Noroccidental.

The arguments that Georgeos Diaz presents are absolutely solid, scientific and very logical.

It will be much more difficult to deny his discoveries that to accept them.

It will be in our next message.

Warm greetings of Ely, Sâlvador Morales and Antonio Beltrán.

------------------
Eliana García
Cádiz, Spain

I expect that the earliest metalworking region on earth, based on information collected up to 2004, was in a roughly triangular region bounded by Southern Sinai at the South corner, Catal Huyuk at the north-east, and Stara Zagora (Bulgaria) at the northwest.

Here is a link from the Institute of Archaeo-Metalurgy (Headquartered in London). The link points out that the oldest known copper smelting equipment has been found in the Sinai region, as reported around 1995. This announcement pushed back the oldest known date for copper smelting by roughly 1000 years.

quote from: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/iams/projects.htm
With the leading participation of Professor H. G. Bachmann (Institute of Archaeology, UCL and University of Frankfurt am Main) detailed metallurgical studies have been carried out on the Sinai finds by Israeli and IAMS scientists. This project has produced the first evidence of Late Pottery Neolithic copper smelting (6th millennium BC) near the mines of Southern Sinai, as well as of sophisticated copper production by the Pharaohs of the Old Kingdom (3rd millennium BC).

Following the First International Conference on Archaeo-Metallurgy in Cairo in 1995, initiated and sponsored by IAMS, the Egyptian Authorities decided to set up an Egyptian Centre of Archaeo-Metallurgical Research. As its core programme and starting project, systematic field research will be undertaken in the mining region of the Eastern Desert of Egypt, with members of IAMS as senior participants. Professors C. Tim Shaw and Beno Rothenberg took part on behalf of IAMS in a recent field survey of ancient gold, tin, copper and emerald mining sites in the region of Mersa Alam in order to select suitable sites for major systematic field research (cf. iams journal No. 20, 1998). Since very little of such excavations have previously been undertaken in Egypt, this research project is expected to provide vital information on the development in ancient Egypt of the sophisticated Egyptian metallurgy used by the Egyptian mining expeditions to Sinai and the Arabah (Timna) since Early Dynastic times. Systematic archaeo-metallurgical research in the field and in the museums of Egypt will add significally to a better understanding of Egypt's widespread and sophisticated use of metal for chariots, arms and jewelry, and contribute essential knowledge to the preservation of Egypt's cultural heritage.

South-western Britain, including Cornwall

Archaeo-metallurgical investigations in south-western Britain are on the agenda for a future major project with the emphasis on Bronze Age tin and copper mining. Surprisingly little archaeo-metallurgical work has been done in this region in spite of the fact that history books often speak about intensive ancient mining activities and Phoenician connection with the tin trade. There are, in fact, major mining sites worked until quite recent days - but they have never been investigated for early remains.

A fascinating aspect is the probable connection of the numerous megalithic burials, the dolmens, with the earliest mining of Western Europe. It is planned to follow the spread of megalithic burials and settlement sites and related trails of metallurgy along the Atlantic coast, from the Huelva Province to Britain. It is expected that these investigations will contribute essential new metallurgical and culture-historical information on the early phases of European history.

The Prehistory of Copper: Culture-historical and Process-technological Studies of the Earliest Steps in Metallurgy

Further excavations at Timna took place in the 1980s and early 1990s in order to complete and conclude the investigation of the mines and smelters of the south-western Arabah. Due to IAMS' insistence on detailed field evidence and sophisticated archaeo-metallurgical studies of the finds, it has recently been established that copper smelting in Timna had already started in the 6th millennium BC, in the Late Pottery Neolithic period, and not, as previously assumed, in the 5th millennium BC, the Chalcolithic period. This exciting discovery, extending the history of metallurgy by more than a thousand years, has triggered off a new IAMS research programme into the first, prehistoric steps towards fully-developed copper metallurgy (cf. iams journal No. 19, 1995).

Based on our excavation of four prehistoric key sites in the Arabah, it has been possible to identify an indigenous population in the arid desert region of the southern Levant, with their own kind and speed of metallurgical development from the 6th to the 3rd millennium BC. Very detailed scientific investigations of the smelting debris identified the decisive changes of process parameters and furnace technology through three thousand years of gradual metallurgical progress. These investigations created a new prehistory of copper, shown against the background of the excavated archaeological evidence of correlated culture changes and divisions. The results of these investigations provide a unique model applicable to metallurgical developments in many other parts of the ancient world.
endquote

NO BODY WILL IGnORE ME...........
the iam the chosen one born under
the star of hope.................

------------------
--For The Pride Of --
---Atlantean Race---
---And For our Noble--
-----Ensters-----------
-AkatariusTheWiseOne--

In your message you mention to Huelva, that is in Andalusia, Spain. But you do not clarify the situation, so that any reader who reads his message on megalithic burials and the metal mines of copper of the antiquity would not know where it is Huelva or some less still informed, could think that it is an archaeological deposit of Britain.

Huelva is in the same heart of the old kingdom of Tartessós or Atlantis, according to defends Georgeos Diaz-Montexano.

Warm greetings of Ely and Salvador Morales.

------------------
Eliana García
Cádiz, Spain

you provided us with a lot of valuable links, thank you very much!
The remnants from the Nemrut Mountain are from a relatively late time, from 80 BC onwards. But it would be interesting to study the metal working of Troy and its area more in detail.

In the timetable you gave us, the first experiments with copper ores are mentioned about 7000 BC in Central Anatolia. (The first copper beads were certainly not made from ores, but from nuggets found in the nature).

2000 years later, about 5000 BC, copper ores were melted and copper was casted in several places of the old world: Palestine, Mesapotamia, the Balkans. From about 4500 BC is written: large amounts of copper ores mined in S-Bulgaria (Thracia). Use of copper in Italy and South Spain.

quote from: http://www.ancientsites.com/aw/Post/23262

Because of the unusual character and initial rarity of metals, they were first used for decoration, rather than utility, for ornaments rather than for knives.
The earliest known copper object is an oval-shapped malachite pendant from the Shanidar cave in Northeastern Iraq from the ninth millennium B.C.
From Cayonu there are hammered copper pins (8th millennium). From Ali Kosh there are beads of native copper (7th millenium).
From Catal Huyuk there are copper beads strung on garment finges carbon dated to the 6th millennium. These were hammered, which was the technique prior to pyrotechnology. The earliest piece of smelting slag comes from 5800 BC at Catal Huyuk. The earliest use of tin bronze was from the 4th millennium, as seen from finds at Tell Yehudiyah and Tepe Yahya, as shown by my old Prof. Lamberg-Karlovsky at Harvard.

Kathleen Kenyon in Archaeology in the Holy Land,(1979:61) writes of a troglodyte community at Tell Abu Matar who left behind abundant underground silos for grain storeage and were copperworkers. The preliminary reduction was carried out in open fireplaces, then the ore was smelted in specially constructed ovens, which were circular basins about 18 inches in diameter. The interior of these chambers was glazed from a mixture of melted metals, silica and residual matter. The ore was then refined in stone crucibles. This is the earliest evidence in the area of metal working. Since the nearest source of raw materials was 60 miles away, a regular trade must have existed. The tools and implements of the inhabitants of Tell Abu Matar are still of flint.
The copper objects, such as pins, rings, ornamental cyclinders, mace heads and handles had a cermonial rather than a warlike significance. The metal items were still regarded as far too precious for rough use.

A hoard of copper objects from Nahal Mishmar in Israel dates from 3430 BC (by carbon dating from associated hoard material. This is from the Chalcolithic Period.
There were 429 objects found in this hoard, mostly round objects, mace-heads, chisels, and crown-like cylinders with elaborately moulded birds on them.
It has been suggested that these were cult objects from a nearby shrine that were hidden when that shrine was attacked as noted by the destruction level from the same period.

Hauptmann and Weisgerberger wrote about ancient copper production in the area of Feinan, Khirbet en-Nahas, and Wadi-el-Jariye,in the Wadi Arabah, Jordan.

Elizabeth Friedman writes in Technological Style in Early Bronze Age Anatolia that Anatolian metallic ware is found in the Taurus mountains, an area rich in metal resources: silver, gold, copper, tin and iron. Moreover, a study of the central Taurus region revealed tunnel and pit mines, which on the evidence of pottery and radiocarbon dates, have been dated to the Early Bronze Age. Ore processing tools, crucible fragments and slag have found on various sites throughout the region. Furthermore, the tin mines at Kestel near Göltepe show clear evidence of being worked during the Early Bronze Age (Yener et al. 1991; Yener and Vandiver 1993).
endquote

Here is a thoroughly different approach to ancient metals. The following link begins with a discussion the an early lead industry in Turkey (Catal Huyuk) and Iraq (Yarim Tepe ca 6500 BC. Note: there is no native lead; so metallurgy began by smelting galena (a lead ore), which glitters like white fire. First it was discovered that lead can be "melted" at 327 degrees C. A second step in metalurgy was probably to smelt azurite and malachite thus producing copper (at perhaps 750-800 degrees C). The next step in metalurgy seems to have been to extract silver from various lead-silver ores, by converting the lead to lead oxide at roughly 1100 degrees C. (Nearly all ancient silver artifacts from 3600 BC contain traces of lead.) Subsequently, and with a little higher temperature, smiths would have been able to melt copper (1083 degrees C); but to pour and and cast copper items requires heating the fluid to 1200 degrees C, so a copper metallurgy would have developed quickly after silver could be extracted from lead-silver ores.)

quote from: http://home.swipnet.se/~w-63448/mespre.htm

Metal ore is simply attractive and has aesthetic properties: they are rare and beautiful. Like other precious stones, metal ore has been found in the Neolithic far outside the sites where they naturally occur, also as burial gifts. They were desirable objects, who give the owner a higher status or who emphasize the current status of the owner. Particularly aesthetic are silver and gold.

Some ore contains unadulterated metals. The pure, native metal is in the form of little pieces or runs in veins through the stone. They are sometimes found on the earth surface and may be isolated by hammering.

Mining industry is known from the end of the Paleolithic and is a well developed industry in Neolithic times. Digging for minerals is a side activity in the flint stone industry.

Copper is soft and can be rolled and flattened. It is easier to shape than stone. Hammering can make copper harder than mild steel, but pushed to far it becomes brittle and it will eventually crack. If heated the original properties are restored and hammering may be continued.

Simple copper artifacts (pins) have been found in a Neolithic village in Turkey and dated shortly before 7000 BCE. The object is shaped by hammering. It is the earliest siting of this metal. There is yet no question of metallurgy: the treatment of metals by melting, smelting, casting or alloying. The earliest findings of molted copper dates back to the beginning of the 4th millennium and become more numerous to the end of the 4th millennium.

Metallurgy:

The melting point of pure copper is 1083 degree C, but to remove stone and slag a temperature of 1200 is needed. Chemically bound copper is also found in ores. It is green or black and doesn't look like a metal. To make copper it should me heated to a temperature of 700-800 C mixed with wood or charcoal. The chemical process is called reduction and the production method smelting. The temperature in wood fire does not exceed 600-700 C. In special campfires the maximum attainable temperature is 800 C. Copper melting cannot have been discovered by accident in a campfire (`campfire hypothesis'). Larger temperatures require kilns and still larger temperatures (in the Iron age) can be made with a forced air stream (bellows). How was copper melting discovered? Many hypothesis exist. It is possible that the discovery of changing properties of copper with heating, higher and higher temperatures are tried. An other plausible theory starts with lead as the first metal to be melted and with silver as next intermediate step.

Lead: Lead has a melting point of only 327 degree Celsius. Lead ore (called galena) glitters metal like, but has to be roasted with wood or charcoal (reduced to lead) to get the metal. Native lead is not found in nature. All findings of pure lead thus indicate the process of melting. Lead beads have been found in Catal Hüyük in Turkey and dated to 6500 BCE. Other findings of lead in the 6th millennium are in Yarim Tepe (Irak). The findings of lead are thus almost three millennia earlier than that of copper. Ones confronted with the possibility of melted metals, the next steps are now at least intuitively better understood.

Silver: The next step must have been silver. Pure silver does occur in nature, but is rare. Most silver is obtained as byproducts, in particularly from lead ore. Silver comes with the melting of lead, while other products (like iron) remain in the slag. Silver may be extracted by oxidizing the lead with a hot air stream (at temperatures of 1100 degree). The lead compound becomes solid. Silver doesn't oxidize and is fluid. The process can be recognized by the remaining percentage of lead in silver. It is indeed attested in silver artifacts dated about 3600 BCE. One could even identify the lead-silver mines from the ratio of lead-isotopes, that are characteristic for each mine.

This is the first time that I heard that lead mining and melting is much older than copper mining. (6500 BC in Catal Hujuk /Anatolia and Yarim Tepe /Iraq). But it makes sense because the melting point of lead is so much lower than that of copper.

The found copper pins from Anatolia were certainly hammered from natural copper nuggets.

> The earliest use of tin bronze was from the 4th millennium, as seen from finds at Tell Yehudiyah and Tepe Yahya, <

remember this from the Urantia papers?

"81:3.4 The widespread use of metals was a feature of this era of the early industrial and trading cities. You have already found a bronze culture in Turkestan dating before 9000 B.C., and the Andites early learned to work in iron, gold, and copper, as well. But conditions were very different away from the more advanced centers of civilization. There were no distinct periods, such as the Stone, Bronze, and Iron Ages; all three existed at the same time in different localities."

Here is a map of Turkestan, to help visualize what is being discussed.
http://www.hunmagyar.org/turk.html

Urantia seems to be postulating future discoveries that will bridge three streams of thought which, in the past, have revolved around ancient Turkestan.
1) Zoroaster and Zoroastrianism originated somewhere nearby at a very early date. (Rajesh calls Zoroastrianism an anti-God religon.)
2) A migration is known to have moved the Vedic peoples toward the southeast, and into northern India around 3000 BC.
3) Helena Blavatsky proposed that the Great White Brotherhood of (Indo-European) modern Tadjik and ancient Tocharian peoples had been very advanced during ancient times.

Obviously the Urantia explanation is much more coherent and rational than the ideas of Blatvatsky.

There is a metalurgical weakness in what Urantia is expecting. By this I mean that underground tin mines are rare, as contrasted to finding alluvial nuggets of tin ore (cassiterite) in stream beds. If there was a large ancient mine, then ruins of the smelting equipment and slag should still be visible.

On the whole, I agree with Urantia that some of the earliest metalworking is likely to have occurred in one (or more) places where several minerals occur close together.

But the prospects look bleak for the Urantian suggestion that archaelogists' so-called "copper age, or chalcolithic age" will soon become an obsolete way to characterize ancient societies.

Recent analysis of the Indo European languages suggests that the Tadzics, Baluchis, and Afghans all moved north and/or west, around 2500 BC, after splitting off from the older group of Indo-Europeans who had entered Kashmir India around 2900 BC.

Based on current research, there is only one Indo-European language group which might have existed around Turkestan at 9000 BC. A highly respected linguistic research paper by Gray and Atkinson, which was published in the magazine Nature during 2003 indicates that the Tocharian language group split off from the main body of Indo-European peoples around 7900 BC (followed by the Greco-Armenian group, who split off from the main body around 7300 BC).

An example of a culture which worked with many metals around 5000 BC is Metsamor, in Armenia. Metsamor was not as ancient as what is proposed in Urantia paper 81. And to me at least, it seems that Metsamoor is in a location which is substantially more likely (as contrasted to Turkestan) to have been near the world's original metallurgy superpower.

quote from: http://www.angelfire.com/hi/Azgaser/Metsamor.html
The earliest civilization that has been found in Armenia, and is believed to be the first in the world is the Metsamor Civilization, which is dating back to around 5,000 BCE. The ancient capital of the Metsamor kingdom is located on the area of 26 acres, which consists of a cyclopic stonewalls, citadel within them and a vast cosmic observatory. The fortress of Metsamor is further enhanced by a large series of oval shaped dwellings along with adjacent buildings and an underground tunnels.
The "heavenly" knowledge of metal processing thought to be received from the pre-deluvial "gods" of the ancients was the most sophisticated of its kind ever found to be of that time period. Metsamor was known to have processed a high-grade gold, copper, and various types of bronze, strychnine, manganese, zinc, mercury and iron. Metal goods made in the Metsamor were highly valued and widely known by its surrounding cultures, stretching out as far as Central Asia, Chine, India and Egypt.

endquote

I found your reply most interesting and have a few questions for you. Have you read paper 79 yet?

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p079.htm

and are you able yet to distinguish the various terminology urantia uses for these basic 9 races particularly the nodites and andites..... please use if need be as reference help, the five pages beginning at....
http://www.squarecircles.com/race/ANDONITES.htm

and is it possible to put together a coherent picture that can be intergrated with the information you supplied in your post regarding the superior metalworking capabilities of the various groups you referred to and perhaps others of that time period in that area.
Paper 67 might add additional information which could explain much in this regard and also answer many questions in this and other areas that we have all been discussing, particularly sections 4 and 5

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p067.htm

and in relation to all of this the location of the "land of Nod" shown on one of the maps at the square circles link. Your apparent mastery of the area and groups involved as well as their history I'm sure will provide a depth and dimension I have not been able to clearly make sense of yet. and I'm inclined to believe it's there for the right eyes.

You've probably already surmised that urantia uses the basic genetic structure rather than residential status probably since it is a more accurate designation and especially during those far away times populations were constantly changing and being absorbed; completely decimated; or carried off and transplanted due to constant warfare; Frequently numerous times during a countries history as well as territorial borders undergoing constant shifting.

I also noticed that Dalamatia sank overnight in a tidal wave whereas Eden took more than a hundred years to completely submerge. I believe the stories might possibly have been mixed together since the Nodites occupied Eden-1 for a considerable time after it was vacated by the Adamites.

.

If you know Arabic word roots, you can recognize that the name Dalmatia has been derived from an Arabic root word: talmatha, which means "to have someone for a pupil, apprentice, or student". So Urantia adopted this root concept into their name for ancient Sumerian civiliztion.

Melchizedek is a reference to Ahura Mazda of the Zoroastrians. And Satan is a reference to the Yezidi people.

In that 1930's era, it had become obvious that potential behavioral problems can result from identifying any specific geographical region with a ancient master race. Therefore the Urantia revelator(s) decided that it was wize to diguise the true location of ancient "Asia", which was the location where human civization began.

It was purely for propaganda purposes that the celestials have named an underwater region, offshore from Cyprus, as the original homeland of the Master Race (Andites).

you are joking of course.
That wasn't exactly the line of thought I expected you to respond with.

Rather than being derived from arabic, it would naturally be just the opposite with the arabic root being derived from it if that idea is indeed true.
Dalamatia I believe was named in honor of Daligastia, the associate of Caligastia.
Melchizedek you of course know from the old testament as "being without father or mother" and He who brought forth bread and wine and a priest of the most highs and perhaps one of the most interesting beings to ever appear on earth. Every major religion on earth began from his teachings.
Your first insight though I believe to be very close to the truth and in regards to that, an interesting purported message aside from the revelation itself was received around 1945 I believe. It reads like this:

NOTES ON A COMMUNICATION RECEIVED IN 1945

RESPONSIBILITY

Full responsibility for peace rests upon the English-speaking nations. They had the

mastery after 1915, but didn't recognize and accept the call to duty. England and

the United States turned their backs on the high privilege of planetary service.

They wanted peace, prosperity and national security; they got depression,

unemployment, insecurity, and in twenty years another war. The United States

increased its trials and tribulations a million fold by trying to escape its

responsibility.

Between the two wars nothing was done to prepare the children and the youth of the

nation for their coming responsibility Ñ their part to play in the world progress Ñ

and many of them refused to grow up. Why did democracy decline so rapidly between

the two wars? The leaders in England, France and America were short-sighted. Many

couldn't see beyond their own personal interests. These men sometimes performed

against public sentiment; but even when replaced by others, the new ones behaved

likewise. There was paucity of leadership and indifference to liberty. They saw

Mussolini, Hitler and Tojo arming, but didn't take it seriously. Democracy was not

willing to fight. At various times an army of 5,000 to 25,000 men could have

prevented this war. The Democracies were unwilling and totally unorganized. They

hated war and longed for peace Ñ but could you run a business or even manage a home

so shortsightedly? The cowardly leaders of Democracy have set the clock of

civilization back 2,000 years. But we have a chance to start afresh. Today there is

little Democracy to defend, and we can build a new world order from the ground up;

but we must reject the policy of nonresistance. You cant be as brotherly as you

would like to be with an unbrotherly brother.

FREEDOM

The real problem is: Man wants liberty, and liberty with equality; but equality never

has existed. Freedom is an ideal. It doesn't exist.

Evolution can have freedom only with compulsion. We must restrain by compulsion.

This is true of the individual, community, state, nation and in family life. There

is no sense to the doctrine of freedom that gives citizens the right to combat and

destroy the freedoms that Democracy gives. There is no peace on earth with the

license to destroy the liberty and sovereignty of other peoples. No nations can

exist on a level above law. Freedom is fostered by human liberalism and

Christianity. What is liberalism in one generation is conservatism in the next.

Liberalism has become dogmatic and Democracy has ceased to grow. Democracy ceased to

keep pace with industrial progress. Self-government is slowly committing suicide.

Freedom must be ever militant and must unhesitatingly destroy whatever assails

freedom, and be intolerant concerning things undemocratic. There should be no

liberty of speech for those who would destroy liberty of speech. The tools of

freedom must not function in a suicidal capacity. There must be no liberty to vote

in the freedoms of Democracy to destroy the right to vote.

DEMOCRACY

Democracy today is being destroyed by those who wish to use Democracy. Democracy is

not a club to join and forever enjoy its protection. As long as Democracy's basic

freedoms exist, it is a Democracy.

The right view of Democracy is a geographic group of people having a common ideal.

To allow Germans to live here and retain their German citizenship is like letting the

wolves live with the sheep. Offices must be held by citizens trained in schools of

statesmanship. These schools must be established.

NATIONALISM

The nations are suffering from intense industrialism and augmented nationalism. In

times past Nationalism was a good thing; it brought people together in a common

interest, within law and representative government. But when a social ideal becomes

a political dogma, it becomes an obstacle to world progress. Nationalism becomes a

relic of patriotism which no forward-looking prophet would dare touch.

Nationalism persists because it has not been attacked by modern and intelligent

citizens who do not seek to disrupt, but to save it by intelligent control. Present

day Nationalism is akin to polytheism. Nation and race became the pagan god of many

modern people. The time has come to give way before a monotheistic policy of

Internationalism. The churches must divorce themselves from Nationalism.

INTERNATIONALISM

Internationalism will not be created by pacts, treaties, appeasements, etc. It will

be created by force of arms. It is the only way for the next 1000 years of

civilizations evolution. International Legislatures must make the international

laws; an International Court must interpret the laws; and International Police must

enforce the laws. Lesser nations must be forced into the international union.

Not in centuries has the Christian world had the opportunity to establish regional

internationalism. Now, following total war, is the time to establish international

government. Socialism, Communism and other world movements have lost their

influence. Now there must be coercive law with the sure penalties attached to its

violation. The god of Nationalism struck at the liberty of Democracy and at the

Christian religion.

Nationalism reached the beginning of the end when you could cross the ocean in six

hours and it took six weeks to get a visa. Recalcitrant and selfish Nationalism must

be made to accept Internationalism. It wont regret it 25 years from now.

There are only two realities in the world Ñ the individual and the human race. The

cosmos does not recognize caste, tribe, race or nation. National war will end when

you recognize that nations are not the final goal of human evolution.

SOVEREIGNTY

No single idea has wrought so much misery as that delusive concept of sovereignty.

Sovereignty passed from king to nation; a political dogma, for soon the people

wielded sovereignty much as kings did. Today millions are dying and millions more

will starve to the national idea of sovereignty. Sovereignty reached its height in

the French Revolution, and its deathbed is this war. Military victors have a chance

to resurrect it in a modified form. May it be a democratic modification.

Enormous vested interests are involved in the worship of the Golden Calf of

sovereignty which results in economic dislocation. What will be the effect upon our

returning soldiers? National matters should be handled by national sovereignty and

international affairs be handled by international sovereignty.

PEACE

Peace will become the watch care of international government. When lawless

minorities learn that, then peace will prevail. Appeasement and moral-compromise are

the habits of peace-loving and self-loving Nationalists. The present conflict

resulted when nations wanted peace at any price. The theory of Democracy validates

the concept of equality Ð but the idea of equality produces conflicts which only

courts can settle, unless the victors establish international overcontrol for those

lesser people who are hungry for freedom and self-government.

The dream of equality is fiction. It is not nationally or individually true. Such a

dream can only be realized before God or before a court. Man acquires citizenship

equality before the law; before a supercourt all nations are equal. You cannot have

equality among trends or creations within law; and law without the coercive power of

enforcement is a tragic farce. Equality without law means war. Without super-law

you can only have peace when the weaker submit to the stronger.

Any hope for world peace without coercive international law is a furtive dream.

Mandatory law is law enforced by unquestioned force. Peace is the reign of law. Law

is the just use of force by unquestioned authority. There cant be lasting peace

without force. To make peace we must wage legal war. There is a difference between

the outlaw who kills a man and the sheriff who kills the outlaw for his crime. The

sheriff is not a murderer Ñ he is a peace officer.

Non-intervention and appeasement are like the old monarchsÕ Ògentlemen's

agreements.Ó Each agrees to let the other carry out his nefarious schemes.

War is the major factor in the non-spiritual history of the human race. At the

present time the most advanced peoples look upon it as an unnecessary evil. It is

the first time in history that world-wide peace had been talked of. Wars have become

increasingly more terrible in the last 150 years, and for the last 100 years no

government has been able to get the full support of its people in a war policy.

Leaders start wars on the theory that they are going to be, or have been, attacked.

If the majority want to abolish war, why don't they do it? If war is an expression

of human emotions like crime, it wont be abolished. But civilized people have

abolished individual crime. Another view: in the case of a criminal committing

murder you quickly distinguish between the criminal and the sheriff who shoots him.

Each from a biological viewpoint is guilty, but not from the social or moral

viewpoints. There are two kinds of war: (1) social criminal aggression, (2) legal

group military sanctions.

An International Government can (a) reduce war to a minimum just as courts function

to minimize crime, (b) render war a legal action on the part of authorized groups for

the peace, safety and security of all mankind. War can be and must be legalized,

minimized and humanized. The use of poison gas, submarines and aerial bombing of

civilian populations can be prevented. The International Police will be known as

Peace Armies. You cannot maintain rules of warfare when armies are conscripted and

nations are fighting for sovereignty. You cant have international law without

international power to enforce the law.

Disarmament on the part of the great nations such as the peace-loving people of the

United States is a direct contribution to war. If the English-speaking peoples

remain intelligent and fully armed, they will constitute the Peace Army until the

regional and international courts can be established. Equal quality of arms is a

delusion. What mayor of a great city would allow criminals to carry guns? Arm well

the police but prevent the criminal element from getting arms. Long have

well-meaning but short-sighted pacifists proclaimed, ÒYou cant have pace by waging

war.Ó That is exactly what you can do, and will have to do for the next millennium.

Legal war is the act of the legal authority of the International Government Ð action

is response to law. Legal war is designed to maintain peace, not to take loot or

seek revenge. It is waged by order of the legal authority of International

Government for safe-guarding the peace of nations. There are two kinds of fighting,

and any nation that fights an illegal war will fight a hopeless one. The time has

come for nations to be governed by law and not by political ambitions, personal whims

and directives, rampant nationalism, fanatical dictators, or the delusion of

sovereignty. Modern science has ended the day of the international frontiersman.

The forces of civilization have arrive on the international frontier.

The dogma of non-intervention is the most uncivilized and inconsistent ever held by

modern nations. What would you think of a policeman who would refuse to help a

fellow officer who was engaged in a struggle with a thug? And it is just such

strange and inhuman conduct on the part of America and other world powers which

enable unscrupulous dictators to become rulers in other parts of the world.

Non-intervention is the remnant of the ÒgentlemanÕs agreementÓ of the older rulers

which was just an agreement between monarchs not to interfere in each other's wars.

Today's advances in science, industry, commerce, communication, etc. render the dogma

of neutrality inconsistent. This neutrality makes possible (1) inconsistency of

policies, (2) corrupt press, (3) fomenting of strikes, disorganization, disunity,

divide and conquer.

Six or eight years ago the American nation began to watch a European nation stop

making automobiles and turn to making airplanes, conscript its citizens, make over

its schools, ration its food, tax and limit incomes. They were 2000 miles away so

American refused to be concerned; now we're doing those same things whether we like

it or not. The world cant go on half free and half slave; it must be either all free

or all slave. There are still thousands of Americans who don't see things as they

really are. They long for the day when it will be over and they can return to their

old ways. They are Isolationists at heart, ready to disarm and sink their navy

again. They learned very little from the last world war wherein the naval disaster

(disarming) was far more costly that the loss of Pearl Harbor.

If one great nation allow treaties to be counted as scraps of paper, then all great

nations are invalidated. Today if one goes off the gold standard, they all go off,

because each is so interdependent. The world is so economically interdependent that

the price of commodities must be determined by the producer operating under the least

favorable conditions. Which means, in competition, that the standard of living

starts on a downward spiral. Tariffs tend to make barriers, but you pay a price for

them. This downward spiral affects the standard of living, depth of culture, extent

of education, labor conditions, personal liberty, taxation, tariff, exports and

imports, defense policies and moral standards. The nation living under the least

favorable condition and lowest cultural standard will become the determining

influence over all other peoples.

The only hope of the survival of the American standards of living is to share them as

far as possible with other people. If one powerful nation is deficient in morality,

it costs us much more to keep ours up. The nation that would selfishly save its own

high standards is destined to lose them. In any circumscribed area of the world it

will be discovered, in the long run, that the existing government will be compelled

to gravitate gradually down to the level of the lowest and most primitive that is

allowed to exist. One criminal and inferior abroad in a community can corrupt a

score of well-meaning youths. In self-defense the Democracies must export life,

liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Whoever heard of neutrality between right and wrong? How can you be neutral in the

struggle between good and evil? In any ideological struggle neutrality is suicidal.

Neutrality means the enemy is free to pick you off one at a time. In local

government a sheriff, when hard-pressed by lawlessness, can deputize any number of

citizens, but such a plan wont work on a national scale. Such results can only be

gotten by internationalism.

Honest men cannot have confidential dealing with rascals. Honest nations keep their

word and live up to their treaties. The honest administration does not make treaties

with a dishonest neighbor. If war is to be outlawed, the farce of neutrality must

end. It is immoral and cowardly for a group of law-abiding citizens to stand idly by

and see a fellow citizen being held up, beaten and robbed; and such moral

indifference is suicidal to a nation. What can be said of Christian nations that

stand by complacently while the world gangsters strafe and plunder the civilized

world, murdering and starving little children? May it never happen again!

The French Revolution reached the highest point in the struggle for personal liberty,

the American Revolution in the struggle for national independence. A grave mistake

was made when the spirit of independence was concocted into a formula of

self-determination; and it was an American president who perpetrated this blunder

when only fifty years previously a Civil War was fought to prevent the right of

self-determination. Little nations can have no more self-determination than each

state of the Union can have complete sovereignty.

Each state is sovereign in all matters of state but in national affairs the Federal

Government is sovereign, and you can only have peace predicated on law. The idea of

every little nation having the right of self-determination only spells industrial

paralysis and social hell. Internationalism is detrimental to national intrigue.

You cant postulate independence without encountering interdependence, and nine out of

ten nations cant have economic independence without enormously lowering their

standard of living. The Untied States and Russia Ð the two most powerful nations in

the world Ð are economically independent. Humans are born wholly dependent. Each

child seeks independence but he learns, as he grows older, that he is

interdependent. The concept of complete independence is fallacious. In life there

is dependence, independence and the intelligent interdependence.

The complete independence of self-determination which was accorded the small nations

after the first world war did not afford them security. They were uneasy, suspicious

and tormented by feelings of insecurity. Both individuals and nations must learn the

lessons of interdependence. The attempt to complete economic independence leads to

over-production, disorderly distribution, unemployment, economic depression. Neither

a nation nor a small group of nations can hope to enjoy complete and independent

economic freedom.

In the spiritual world Òno man liveth unto himself alone.Ó Neither can a nation

continue to live to itself. A state that strives for economic freedom will gravitate

certainly and swiftly to a totalitarian state. Fascism and Nazism is the result of

striving for economic freedom Ð freedom without restraint, liberty without

compulsion. Honesty in business and altruism in government pay high dividends.

We must relinquish national sovereignty and enter into international sovereignty.

Think how much states are free when they don't have to concern themselves with things

Federal. So would nations be more free with an International Government to attend to

global affairs. It will be too late to undertake it after the war is over. Says the

Declaration of Independence: ÒWhenever any form of government becomes so destructive

of these ends Ð life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness Ð it is the right of the

people to alter, abolish or institute new government, laying its foundations on such

principles, and organizing its powers in such form as to them shall seem most likely

to effect their safety and happiness.Ó

Today the nations of the earth are most unsafe and most unhappy. Nationalism is on

its deathbed. Unlimited sovereignty is moribund. The time has come for the birth of

Internationalism. Let the sick nations follow the wise counsel of the fathers of

American independence. Will you humble your nationalism enough to adopt a sane

internationalism?

Dictators proclaim ÒMight makes Right.Ó Democracies believe Right is Might. The

world is suffering from these errors or relative truths. Spiritual causes cannot

employ physical force in their interests, but material causes depend on physical

force for their survival. It is perfectly proper to found a church on the ideas of

the League of Nations of World War I. When the League of Nations didn't apply force,

it committed suicide. War is a legal reality. When not used in the support of law,

it will be used in the contravention of law and against economic justice. How silly

to let international gangsters and criminals dominate the world!

Diverse forces form the service of aggression and attach it to the law of justice.

Our slogan should be ÒRight predicated on Might.Ó Educate zealous crusaders to toil

for the new order. Democracy has too many apostles and not enough crusaders. When

two nations are in trouble with each other, neither one can judge their aggressions.

That is the job of an International Court. Aggression is good when directed against

injustice. Hitler made his first aggression when he proclaimed, ÒRight is whatever

is in the interest of the German folk.Ó That's the time we should have struck.

Judgment is the function of a group.

Democracy cannot be static. Peace is dynamic. When the law-abiding citizen is

static, then the outlaw is dynamic. As we exist today we can only exist by waging

war Ð war that is waged in the interest of international law. War can only be

prevented by the action of International Police ready to act instantly. Failure to

provide for International Police provides for international banditry. When the first

international military force moves against the first one who dares to go against

international law, then we'll have peace.

Democracies were used to seeing local gangsters committing crime, but were shocked to

see them at the heads of governments. We dreaded law with force. Now we have a

world with force without law.

quote from: http://www.ahc.gov.au/publications/generalpubs/mining/profile2.html
Slag heaps-- A necessary feature of smelting sites is the slag heap, where the slag from the smelting process was deposited. Smelters produced 5 to 10 times as much slag as they did copper, and slag is an extremely durable marker of a smelter site. Slag could be run into sand moulds, giving lozenge-shaped pillows of slag (common at early or under-resources isolated smelters), or it could be poured into conical iron wheeled-buckets, giving cones of slag if it set (seen at both reverberatory and water-jacket sites), or poured in its molten state into formwork squares or simply poured over the tip face as a flowing mass, or quenched in water to give a granulated slag (the last three methods being more commonly associated with water-jacket smelters). Slag squares were often used to pave over the uneven top of the slag heap to allow easy access by wheeled buckets to the tipping edge. At some sites slag was caste into blocks and used as a massive building material for walls.
endquote

Please refer to your post on the last page where you have suggested the following link from Respected Atalante:
http://www.gtp.gr/LocPage.asp?id=61412

QUOTE>> There are three explanations for the derivation of its name: firstly it took its name from the copper mines, secondly from Chalkida, the daughter of Asopos or thirdly from "Chalki" or "Kalki", the purple shellfish which the Phoenicians used for a dye in the town. <<UNQUOTE

“Shalk” translates as “Hard Scale” or “Shell” of the fish or other similar animals. So Phoenicians could have named some shellfish as “Shalki” or “Chalki”, but mostly not the “Kalki”. They could be using the shell of this fish for dying.

However in spite of feeling the connection, earlier I have never used this word for “Orichalcum”, because I felt that Plato was referring to some metal and not to some calcium laden fish Shalk (shell), especially if it was not dying “flaming red”.

Nearly all copper ores (especially the ones used in the modern era) need to be combined with some material known as flux, to lower the melting point during the smelting process.

But metalurgists recognize that SOME copper ores are self-fluxing. Historically speaking, it is very likely that copper working originated in regions which had self-fluxing ore. Then at later dates, the smiths in various parts of the world could gradually learn the art of using fluxes.

Here is a link about one of those self-fluxing copper ores which was used in ancient times.

This ancient marketing network originated substantially earlier than 4000 BC, to distribute stones called Lapis Lazuli, which are found in Badakshan, but virtually nowhere else in Eurasia. The place of origin for these Lapis Lazuli deposits is near the Pamir Knot, where the Himalaya mountain chain reaches its geatest heights. That region is considered to be "the roof of the world".

Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia both obtained Lapis Lazuli from the Badakshan. Due to the rarity, this rock was typically priced about equal to gold. (But due to the high prices they found ways to create imitation, or synthetic, Lapis Lazuli.)

Since the locations of the primary deposits were in extremely highland locations, Lapis Lazuli became commonly associated with the sky, or the god of the sky. There are inclusions of white calcite, in Lapis Lazuli, which look like white clouds floating in a blue sky. The "clouds & sky" effect is easy to see in the following link, which shows wall tiles made from Lapis Lazuli. (Note that gem quality Lapis Lazuli is selected to omit these white inclusions.) http://www.lapislazuliworld.com/store/customer/home.php?cat=56

There are also many tiny inclusions of Iron Pyrite ("fools gold") in Lapis Lazuli. These gold flecks are consided to resemble stars in the sky.

quote from: http://www.badakhshan.20m.com/

LAALE BADAKHSHAN

(lapis lazuli)
semiprecious stone valued for its deep blue colour. The source of the pigment ultramarine (q.v.), it is not a mineral but a rock coloured by lazurite (see sodalite). In addition to the sodalite minerals in lapis lazuli, small amounts of white calcite and of pyrite crystals are usually present. Diopside, amphibole, feldspar, mica, apatite, titanite (sphene), and zircon may also occur.

Because lapis is a rock of varying composition, its physical properties are variable. It usually occurs in crystalline limestones and is a product of contact metamorphism. The most important sources are the mines in Badakhshan, northeastern Afghanistan, and those near Ovalle, Chile, where it is usually pale rather than deep blue. Much of the material that is sold as lapis is an artificially coloured jasper from Germany that shows colourless specks of clear, crystallized quartz and never the goldlike flecks of pyrite that are characteristic of lapis lazuli and have been compared with stars in the sky.

endquote

The pigment which is made by grinding up Lapis Lazuli creates a color known as "ultramarine". Ancient artisans in both Mesopotamia and Egypt learned how to paint murals and other objects with ultramarine pigment, rather than using thick chunks of such an expensive material.

Marco Polo travelled through Badakshan when he traveled to India, and it is said that he introduced pigment made from Lapis Lazuli to the peoples of Europe.

In the 19th century, a European chemist found a way to make cheap cheap synthetic Lazulite pigment.

Here is a nice link which explains the backgound of Lapis Lazuli, and the process of making synthetic Lapis Lazuli. http://www.pcimag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/coverstory/BNPCoverStoryItem/0,1848,126079,00.html

And here is another link which gives some other worthwhile info. For example, the name Lazuli comes from Arabic lanuage, where the root azul means "blue". And Alexander the Great brought back the solid rock form of Lapis Lazuli during his conquest of the East (ca 330 BC). The name "ultramarine" refers to its source "beyond the (Black and Caspian) seas". http://www.gemstone.org/gem-by-gem/english/lapis.html

My research is tending toward that approach. But also expecting it to be a gemstone form of flux for smelting copper.

Here is a material which I consider very interesting, a substance which is caused by hematite co-crystalizing on copper. This mineral is called sunstone. http://stampmin.home.att.net/sunstone.htm

Here is another link with a nice picture of an irridesencet red-orange sunstone.

Crit. 116D: „As to the interior (of the temple), they made the roof all of ivory in appearance, variegated with gold and silver and ORICHALCUM, and all the rest of the walls and pillars and floors they covered with ORICHALCUM.“

Intarsia is an artform of inlaying natural materials to form a picture or a design.

For example, here are some intarsia boxes which use minerals for the inlays.
http://www.houseofonyx.com/index.php?method=ProductList&GroupsId=96

And here is a link which discusses woodworking intarsia for projects, some of which can be the size of wall murals. Each variety of color (for an intarsia design) should be generated from a species of wood in its natural state. I especially like the first example, which is a 28 inch by 36 inch mural with 189 interlocking pieces of wood.
http://www.intarsia.com/Patterns%20.html

Based on analogy to the artform of intarsia, the "varigated" appearance which Plato mentions in Critias 116D may have been contributed by inlaying natural materials (and not by "painting").

your idea of "orichalcum" being a red flashing mineral is worth to think about.

> Sunstone . . forms in the basalt magma fields of southern Oregon and reaches the surfaces in magma flows. . . .It is a labradorite that co-crystallizes with copper as it grows. The unusual "schiller" is created from the mixing with these tiny platelets of copper. This effect is reddish-orange in color with a golden iridescence or "aventurescence" flashing out at some angles. <

quote from: http://www.rhosybolbach.freeserve.co.uk/smelting.htm

Then one lets the fire die down a bit and pours the fluid black copper into iron boxes as before.

The metal is now in a state where it can be purified. This, however, does not take place in the same way as in our own copper works but rather in a way which distinguishes it, in that the copper at these works is made completely pure immediately so that it can be worked by coppersmiths without further refining.

To achieve this one places the cakes in the refining furnace, which is just like the previous furnace, and roasts it for 16 hours, gradually increasing the temperature so that the copper melts slowly. When this has happened, 25 to 30 pounds of lead is put onto the three tons of copper which one will refine all at the same time. Then one maintains a strong heat for several hours so that a proper slag can form and the impurities still found in the copper can dissolve out. The slag is removed from time to time so that the calcination of the metal pieces being scorified can proceed even better with the introduction of fresh air.

When the scorification is coming to an end, enough coal dust is thrown on to sufficiently coat the surface of the metal. Then the refiner shoves a tree in the furnace and presses it into the metal as strongly as he can. Because one uses elms or young oaks from four to six inches in diameter which have been freshly cut or left to lie in water to keep them damp, a violent bubbling occurs in the copper when one pushes the tree into it. This is allowed to continue for several minutes. Then one throws coal dust over the copper again and the bubbling recurs. This process continues until the copper has reached the requisite degree of purity. One ascertains this by removing a little copper with a small test spoon. As soon as the copper solidifies, it is quenched in water and breaks into bits. If the colour is a bright brick red, and the break shows that it is fine-fibred and as glassy as satin, then it is of the required purity. If, on the other hand, it is blistered inside and dark red, then one has to carry out the previous procedure, which one calls phlogistics for a longer period of time. One must even add some lead, if the metal is still not ready, whereby, however, the phlogistics must always be repeated.

When the copper has reached the desired purity, it is either poured out as cakes in the previously described manner, granulated or poured out in small bars, which are formed like bars of sealing wax and are usually called Japanese copper in Germany but should actually be called lacquered copper because the English word japanned copper signifies this. Also it is generally known in England that all the copper produced by this firm is produced in the country and is used in business with the East Indies.

The cakes, most of which are treated in the rolling mills of the company, are usually one and an half inches thick. In order to maintain this thickness, it is necessary that both of the workers who do the pouring shovel as quickly and at as regular intervals as possible so that when the first one has poured out his ladleful, the other one can follow on immediately so that the metal does not solidify before the next ladleful arrives.

The boxes are washed out with clay beforehand and the bottom cakes are only poured thinly because they have to be melted again. When the pouring is finished, the boxes are cooled in a tank with water. Then the cakes are taken out, trimmed at the edges, stamped and numbered and sent off from the works.

Granulation occurs in the following way. A cylindrical container of copper which can be brought up again afterwards with the help of a crane winch is let down into a round 12 foot deep tank, through which water continuously flows, A copperplate dome is place over the tank, with an opening on one side for the ladle carrying the metal. This hole must, for this occasion, be much smaller than the hole used in pouring of the plates because the metal can only be poured into the water in small portions, on account of the violent explosion, which would occur if too much metal hits the water at once, and because too much copper ladled out at once would also solidify in the ladle. For this reason this process is carried out by only one worker. He scoops up some copper, puts the spoon through the opening of the dome over the tank and gradually shakes the copper into the water where it sinks to the bottom producing crackling sounds and frequently, blue flames. The copper falls two to three feet through a column of air before it reaches the water and by doing this takes on a form which has a distant resemblance to the texture of a feather. One therefore calls these granules feather-shot to distinguish them from the rounder granules which one gets when the copper is poured directly into the water. Because the granulation takes a lot of time, one has to ensure that the metal in the furnace does not get too cold; to protect it against calcining, the surface is dusted with coal dust.

Granulation was used everywhere in England in the preparation of brass, for which it is also undoubtedly more suitable than refined copper because the granules consists of very thin plates which can mix with the calamine better and offer a larger surface area for the developing zinc vapour to penetrate. However, more of this when I discuss brass production.

The so-called lacquered copper is poured in the form of ingots. Several such forms are fastened to an iron wheel which is positioned over a tank filled with water, which is likewise positioned very close to the front of the furnace. When the metal reaches the necessary refined state, a young lad, using a paint brush, paints the form with oil, and the pouring master, using a spoon which holds just about what the form will hold, pours the metal in the forms.

In the meantime another worker holds ready a container with water which he pours on the copper in the form; As soon as the copper solidifies, he turns the wheel so that the bar cools itself completely in the water in the tank.

The copper is poured into the form next to the first form following the same procedure; however, before one paints the form with oil it is first carefully dried out with a cloth. Otherwise the water mixing with the molten copper could cause a dangerous explosion for one of the workers. One uses the forms in rotation so that there is enough time for them to cool again before introducing molten copper; otherwise the copper would stick to them.

This is the simple process which produces a quality of copper which one values so much abroad, which, however, the English smelters who produce it regard as less pure than cake copper. The oil with which the forms are painted before each casting serves to hinder the effect of oxygen from the air as well as the cooling water and keeps the outer surface completely metallic. The outer surface also becomes shiny through the sudden pulling together of the particles in the same way that any metal takes on a higher shine when its surface particles are brought closer together through pressure, under the coin press, for example.

The working up of the precipitated copper is less difficult than the procedure for the ore. At the first smelting one places eight hundredweight of precipitate with four hundredweight of slag and half a hundredweight of anthracite in the furnace, takes away the slag when everything is well melted and pours the metallic part, which is very impure black copper, in iron boxes to make cakes. These undergo a 24 hour roasting and are then slowly melted and poured out. The same operation is repeated again, after which the metal is sent for refining.

These then are the English smelting and refining processes, which I cannot leave without first explaining a few operations which are not common for us and without making a brief comparison between these and the normal smelting methods used in Germany....
endquote

Georgeos Diaz is preparing a message that will be sent to all the one that it solicits to enter in the SAIS. Georgeos Diaz-Montexano has made very interesting progresses in the last months and SAIS (Scientific Atlantology International Society), already is working. Diaz-Montexano wishes to make (personally) you, an invitation to comprise of the SAIS like "charter members". One is a generous offer on the other hand. It is not necessary to pay to no amount or quota of money to the SAIS. He is free, without profit spirit, so that Georgeos Diaz thinks that there will be to look for other ways to finance the scientific institution by means of patron, donations of the state, income by benefits of book sales, CD, documentary, videos, etc.

The primary target is to create the greater scientific society than it reunites to the most outstanding investigators than they look for the Atlantis, but from the scientific rigor, that is to say, from the methods of science, because to look for Atlantis from other different methods, already exist many in the world. Agreements of collaboration with other scientific institutions and professors of University have already been obtained that will be arranged to distribute courses and conferences to the members of the SAIS to contribute to a better dominion of the methods of science, because for Georgeos Diaz any doubt that does not fit the enigma of Atlantis will be solved from science. All person who is interested in having the category of charter member of the SAIS will have to personally write to Georgeos Diaz - Montexano, through the mail: GeorgeosDiaz@AtlantisDiscovery.com.

Like initial gift, one will offer an account of mail mail of the AtlantisDiscovery.com dominion of 1000 MB (1 GB) of capacity and a space to also lodge Web with the name that you prefers and our dominion, of 1000 MB (1 GB). Let us put an example, with the name of our colleague Ulf Ritcher: http://UlfRitcher.AtlantisDiscovery.com

The mail would be then: UlfRitcher@AtlantisDiscovery.com

The space Web will not have a small internal Banner more, in top of the page, but another type of emergent publicity will be no popups nor. And documents formats of and photo, and archives can be raised to many flash (swf).

This way all the members of the SAIS will be unified in a same dominion, that as it is possible to be verified is in an excellent position in the finders like Google. If you write: Atlantis Discovery or Discovery Atlantis or Atlantis discovered or discovered Atlantis, our dominion appears between front page and third (of between hundreds of thousands of pages).

The members of the SAIS will have an own forum and a list of post office (Already we have more than 3000 members, between Spaniards, Portuguese, Germans, Swedish and Dutch and North American, although most of moment they are Hispanic-americans) and an own bulletin and will be informed at any moment into the last discoveries that are being made in the matter of Scientific Atlantology throughout the world, by means of Bulletin or own Newspapper that it has like name "Atlantis's Reports", in Spanish, "Informes de la Atlántida".

Se deals with a huge project. It is very important to unite efforts we cannot follow divided by personal questions or false social damages. What it really matters is independently to decipher the mystery of Atlantis of the place of the world where its Acropolis can be found finally.

All the members will have to incorporate in their page Web a personal card with at least one clear photo and its personal data. To this card only will be able to accede, the rest of the members of the SAIS, that is, the registered users, although atlantologist will be able to decide if it wishes that all can see their card or part of their personal card.

Each one will be able to write in its own language its articles, commentaries, notes, messages, etc., but all the Bulletins and the articles, more important will be written in two languages, English and Spanish, since the greater amount of the members of SAIS speaks the languages English and Spanish.

All the details will be sent by deprived mail to all the one that it asks for to be member of SAIS.

Thank you, very much to all. Respectful greetings of Salvador Morales.

PS I recommend the reading of new post that we have published in this forum with the second part or continuation of the investigations on oreichalkós of Georgeos Diaz-Montexano. We have had to create a new Post so that the two parts were very extensive. Podeís to enter the following Link directly:
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001061.html

------------------
Eliana García
Cádiz, Spain

Generally I was thinking that only Brass is the Orichalcum. But it was not getting any worth of progress.

Suddenly I am finding that the MYSTERY of ORICHALCUM stands as good as RESOLVED. It is a costly proposition to paint it on the walls of the palace and perhaps may be next costly only to the Gold during the Atlantean times. However in every Indian household, the married women daily apply it on their forehead in powder form as a mark of fashion and also as a sacred ritual of them being married.

This is the famous and highly sacred Powder of “SINDOOR” which is also applied to the statue of Warrior God Hanuman in all the temples. For this purpose, Sindoor is mixed with Oil or Ghee and the paste is coated on the Idol of the God. This paste is quite enduring and it shines exactly as Shining Red or Flaming Red as described by Plato. No other red color can match the beauty of the flashing Red color created by Sindoor.

Chemically it is certainly poisonous, if taken orally or internally. As I remember the old chemistry, it is basically the “Red Mercury Oxide”, however to reduce the price some traders may be mixing it with “Red Lead Oxide”. One website, I have just seen says that it is made of “Zink Oxide”. I leave it to you to study further.

So this ancient sacred powder must be getting mixed with pure aromatic Ghee and coated on the walls of sacred temple or palace of Poseidon.

Theological aspects of “Sindoor” the Mercury/Lead Oxide powder and paste are as following:
http://www.littlesoulsonline.com/teaching_guides/hanuman/3_hanumans_love_for_sri_ram.html
http://www.jhulelal.com/calender/hanumanjayanti.htm

I was earlier thinking that Sindoor consists of basically Red Oxide of Mercury or Lead Oxide, but I am now finding that it may be even Zink Oxide. Please see:
http://www.bharatmatrimony.com/desimatch/magazine14b.html

However in any case, it is poisonous for any internal use.

It’s name Orichalcum may also clearly identify it as “The Coating of God” or “The Shalk of God”.

So instead of being the Shalk of Fish, it is better considered as the Shalk of God.

If this is correct, then I will be most astonished that why such a simple, plausible and most common item was so easily overlooked by me.

"Bronze, an alloy of copper and tin, was used in enormous quantities during the Bronze Age. The sources of these metals and, particularly, tin, have never been adequately identified. The Koltepe mines in Anatolia (Turkey) were a puny affair, those of Tartessos (Spain) were purely legendary, and those of Cornwall (England) were discovered only after the Bronze Age had declined."

Cyprus has already been mentioned but I've yet seen any mention of ancient Magan. To quote from archaeology.org:

"Was Oman the land of Magan, which appears in Sumerian cuneiform texts ca. 2300 B.C. as a source of copper and diorite for the flourishing city-states of Mesopotamia? These texts tell us that ships with a cargo capacity of 20 tons sailed up the Arabian Gulf, stopping at Dilmun to take on fresh water before continuing to Mesopotamia. They also say that Magan lay south of Sumer and Dilmun, was frequented by Indus Valley travelers, and had high mountains from which diorite or gabbro for black statues was quarried. Research since the 1970s has located significant copper deposits and more than 150 medieval Islamic smelting sites. Excavations by the German Mining Museum have identified numerous Magan-period (2500-2000 B.C.) slag heaps under tons of medieval slag and third millennium remains from mining and smelting at the oasis village of Maysar in central-eastern Oman. A hoard of bun-shaped copper ingots found in a small fireplace indicates the form in which copper was traded."

Thor Heyerdahl described and took photos of the ancient quarries in the Tigris expedition. The ancient miners levelled whole mountains.

The bronze age civilizations would not have had a steady stream of reed boat convoys making their way to the Great Lakes of America across the northern Atlantic, when the ores they needed were relatively close in proximity to the civilized centers of the time.

Just my opinion...