back to that oh so cold region, scandinavia - i have a couple of friends, one swedish, one from norway, who are quite mum about your supposition(s). not to reflect negatively on your contentions; to the contrary. i see much merit in what you have written here as of late. but no one soul has the complete "vision". and i know you are trying your best. please keep it up, now we're getting somewhere ...

3. ... And I do indeed agree to your conclusion; at least this material sheds a brand new ligth to the legends of Atlantis, as well as other. Together with the hard evidence from present science it is sure giving us a good push into a far better, more logic and closer understanding of teh basis of our history, culture and identity.

Best regards

perhaps the answer is on planet y.

Dockey,
There is NO doubt about that ice-time existed, until 10.000 years ago - when enormous masses of ice SLIDED INTO the oceans, causing the ocean level to rise aprox 100 metres (or more) in about 100 years. Thats 1 meter a year - and THAT`s a flooding. Someplaces - as in ther Black Sea and the Medditerranean, - the shift in waterlevel was even sharper!

And it happened about 8.700 - 9500 yers ago, according to the most recent hydrological research.

Onwards;
Does Platou describe that they arrived 9.000 BC - calling THAT bronze-age? Or does he describe that the Atlantens made bronze?
That is two very different statements. So which is it?

Regards

Just remember the old story about the guy who walked on water? Well thats rather commonplace in the northern hemisphere, - not only in the Baltics, but also in the Asov and Caspian winter. And where did he actually come from - this 12 year old "prodgidy" that amazed the Egyptian Templars and scholars with his knowledge, some 2000 years ago? As we know the story today he walked on The Sea of Genesareth, - but may also that be an inaccuracy in the tales told - before or at the time this peculiar "phenomenon" went on record?

Or is it inproper to keep a critical mind towards such a source? Or may it be "speculative" in itself - to even contemplate a logical explanation behind this and other myths surrounding the famous guy from N-as-ar-et?

Forgive me for asking, but the answers to these questions may be highly relevant in order to understand how information can be misdelivered, misunderstood, wrongly interpretated or counsciously altered (to fit contemporary needs/objectives) by the ancient narrators - constituting the records being our source-material.

Today we know pretty much about alternative sources to the New Testament with different signatures, giving alternate profiles of Jesus and his teachings. We may have to adapt some of the same critical view to our understanding of Plato, especially since his version is occuring not only decades and centuries, but even millenias after the actual occurence of the Atlanteans happened.

To many biblical scolars, not to mention clerics, this "alternative" information on Jesus and his life are hard to accept. Quite a few of them do not even want to hear about the content and the impact of the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Qumran texts. The problem is, though, that these alternate references DO exist - as historical evidence. Let us hope that the scientific minds, investigating the reality behind the legends of Atlantis, are more open to a new, exstensive source of historical information - as it recently occured with the Fenno-Swedish legend of Altlandis.

To reject this reference material before giving it a proper check, - would not only be non-scientific, but unfortunate to the whole process of identifying the reality behind Platos great work. His aim was to keep the core of the basic memory, telling about a higly important period in human history. Anyone who want to pay the great Greek his due respect should indeed keep BOTH eyes open, as they re-read Platos material, understanding that some of his details may be sligthly altered. Considering the millenias that actually passed from the happenings to the recordings it is highly impressive that anything at all from this ancient antiquety remained at all.

Among impressive archaeological discoveries as well as huge sites and monuments of higher ancient cultures, we now have another LITTERATE source of information, - describing the period of Altlandis in more detail and with a more clear, historical chronlogy and stringens than even Plato himself. If one dare to look!

By now we may see a new ignition of a world-wide communication appearing after ice-time, sparked off by the "sea-people" reffered to by Plato and others. Thus I have introduced the Fenno-Swedish saga and its history of an ancient pre-boral population in tha Baltics, surviving as people, society AND as a ancient culture. Since this saga was known first time in 1984 there have been a number of archaeological discoveries manifesting the outline of this oral tradition.

The saga references the origin of the arctic man, to go on telling exactly and chronologically how this culture developed furter as it spread rapidly around the open areas of the northern hemisphere.

Simultaniously this Baltic culture obviously started to communicate with the age-old civilisations of the sub-tropical hemisphere, such as the Mediterranean area. The connections grew so strong and steady that we can talk about a Eurpean community of trade and culture being excercised already around 7000 BP. As the English professor of European Archaeology, Barry Cunliffe, have shown in his last works; there was a balance of peaceful trade and stable communion between the peoples of the Atlantic Coast and the Medeiterranean shores for about 5000 years, - not to be broken before the Caesarian army introduced war in Northern Europe.

Nowing that there was a time - even an eon of time - where war was still unknown -it should be obvious, not strange, that we have a lot of cultural sites, monuments and items showing centras of higher culture around the globe, existing already before as well as after the end of ice-time.

It should be likewise obvious that we have a new impact created by the arctic people and their culture, regaining access and contact with theese culture as ice-time ended. The significance of this arcticals are still to be further investigated and understood, but it is simply beyound doubt that their appearance in the subtropical and tropical waters occured some 9-10000 years ago, coincide with the time and the nature of the legends refered to BOTH in Plato and the Bocksaga.

The impact of this co-existance is a main reference also in Homers litterature, such as in OdeZevs (Zevs in Oden). In the Norse sagas we have a parallel royal figure by the name of Ull, also called Ullu-se-us. That is one reason to look further into the recent research done by our contemporary professor, Dr. Felice Vinci.

Another evidence of this ancient connection is discovered in the Vedas, where astronomic references today are investigated scientifically. The amazing results shows a clear-cut connection between information given in the Indian Vedas and a pre-boreal civilisation dwelling in the highest north, during ice-time. (See Solon12`s neighbouring thread: "More than one Atlantis" for more profound facts). Similar equations have been made on information given in Norse sagas, establishing a "pre-viking" sailing-route between Northern Norway, Greenland and todays America.

The number of stories and and archaeological proofs are about to become far to many to uphold the view of the early co-existence, between the Baltics and the Mediterranean, as a result of ancient or contemporay "fringe elements".

All these old skulls prove is, that the ancient black aboriginal race frequented post ice-age Europe, as well as many other places on the earth. Once upon a time the oceans were about 426 feet lower than they are today, making it possible to travel by foot (long "walk-abouts" with camp-outs) for great distances, not to discount any rafts or simple-to-make canoes. etc.

sometimes i think that we are two or three different creatures (the surviving humans).

and who really is in control of genetic info and how it is disbursed to the public? now, there's not a snowballs' chance in hell that this new info is being manipulated is there? ... just like other sciences being so robustly correct all these years?
how do we really know about all these genetic comparisons being bandied about? how do we really know?

"Well Tark, what about the facts recently presented; about the ancient civilisation of the Baltics, - who obviously escaped "a deluge" - to enter the Mediterranean area - in boats - just about 9.200 years BP?!

Regards"

In my opinion, an ancient civilization in the Baltics before the deluge is a possibility. I've heard many dates (12,000 BC, 9,600 BC) for the deluge. This corresponds well with the end of the ice age and the destruction of Atlantis.

The author Rand Flem-Ath concludes that many peoples escaped the deluge. One example is South America. There are settlements on or near the Andes mountaintops. Why would anyone farm on a mountaintop? Perhaps a racial memory of a cataclysmic event, i.e. a worldwide deluge. And, there are mountains near Finland after all!

Note the following, my comments are in ():

======================================
Atlantis Rising Magazine #45, Page 62:

Like all his prophecies,
Century II.22 is
open to interpretation.
Nostradamus refers
to lsle submergee
as Nobril du Monde.
Atlantis, the sunken
isle, was also known
as the Navel of the
World.

(Antarctica is known as the “navel of the world”)

According to Cayce, the present island of
Bimini anciently belonged to the western
portion of the Atlantean Empire known as
Poseidia, named after the sea-god described
by Plato, and the mythic founder of Atlantis.
In 1933, Cayce described it as “the sunken
portion of Atlantis, or Poseidia, where a portion
of the temples may yet be discovered
under the slime of ages of seawater” near
what is known as Bimini, off the coast of
Florida. Eight years passed before he mentioned
Bimini for the last time: “Poseidia
will be among the first portions of Atlantis
to rise again.

(Note the emphasis on “western portion of the Atlantean Empire”, not Atlantis itself.)

===========================================

The Atlantean Empire was huge (as Plato describes). It would not surprise me if the Bahamas, Finland, Egypt, India, South America, etc were all part of the Atlantean Empire.

The Nile, Tigris Euphrates, Indus, and Chinese civilizations are the descendents of Atlantis (my opinion). These are considered the "great ancient civilizations". The Maya, Aztecs, Inca, Pacific Peoples, Africans, Australians, etc are also descendents of Atlantis (my opinion).

The theorist says humans evolved in Africa and migrated from there. Perhaps, but I say that humans migrated from Antarctica / Atlantis to the other parts of the world.

And then there are the Annunaki.

I'm fascinated by the story of gods who from the sky came down to earth. This is in the written record (or in the clay to be more precise). There are many myths saying that the gods educated mankind, not just Sumerian. Plato says that a god founded Atlantis! And as the Roman gods are based on the Greek gods, so are the Greek gods based on the Sumerian gods!

Regards,

John

Boreas
Member posted 04-04-2004 21:36

More useful "comments"; http://www.odinic-rite.org/CoO/giants.html http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Lagoon/1345/caucasian.html
IP: 195.159.184.151

Boreas
Member posted 04-05-2004 13:40

Until some clear-cut evidence are completed it may not be possible to get this discussion beyound the issue of location. So far we have to deal with the scarce material that exists of the Greek legends, explained and re-explained througout the last century.
Because of the exstensive debate that have evolved out of Platos dialogues it seems to be difficult to add a brand NEW source of information, even though we may find it highly compatible to the legends presented by Plato and others.
Due to early 20th century books of the esoteric writers - from Blavatsky/Cayce and onwards - it may be hard to see the discrepancy between all the fictions, speculations and ideas occuring, - and the facts of genuine sources, -that being the authentic stories from Greek writers or the Finnish Saga-keepers. Especially the later, as it still is brand new and "unusual" to most of us.
Though, sinc it is backed by recent research of both archeological and mythological nature - it is becomming more and more difficult not to give the Finnish source-material its due credibility.
IP: 195.159.178.207
via mars
Member posted 04-05-2004 18:53

boreas - with all due respect, screw the plato theory - full steam ahead with yours.
now you can get past the mish-mash. as you so eloquenty and diplomatically put it, there are many avenues, none to be discounted, but the prevailing theories are just that ... prevailing. enough of the other "stories" already. they have their own holes and glaring inconsistencies, not to mention non-encompassing locations (too many people focus on one place, instead of one empire).
keep giving it a whirl ... or i'm going home. (vote of confidence)
IP: 141.156.195.157

(Please Excuse the fact that part of this thread is missing here....as you can see by the dates. Rockessence)

Boreas
Member posted 09-17-2004 15:31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just like Allfather once was A real, naturally born (human) being...
As he was the straigth descendant and heir of the first Man to walk this planet - he could be VERY real, and still considered to be the Highest (of heredity) and the First (among brothers). Not to forget that he was the elder of the (large) Aser family, - once widely regarded to be the origin of all royal families known...
Now, since royal families still exists - WE may have a chance to what our ancient evolutional and cro(w)nological history was all about. Before it got altered, forgotten or twisted. And changed into pure superstition. As the Oera Linda says - "by the Magis", i.e. priests.

This superstition is still bearing a great impact on how we consider the essential parts of nature, - such as the "esoterical" dimensions, where matter, speed and space meet at a very fine, elementary level.

Today - thanks God (!) - do we have the natural sciences back on the legal side of society AGAIN, - recovered and redeveloped. But still great many people consider the "mysteries" of life as of "supernatural" nature. Because there is still room for the repetitions of a particualr superstition, mixed with both historical information as well as legends.

Today we still regard this kind of superstition as relevant. There are literally billions that still trust beyond doubt in ONE of the three "holy books", - that ALL claim themselves to be The One. To settle - between these monopolistic belief-systems - who is rigth there is only one metod possible, which is power-games, antagonism and outrigth war...

AS long as we - the citizens of this day and age - keep our fossil deceptions in regard. Though, - it does look as we have been getting somewhat more sober during the later weeks, months and years. At least a good few people NOW seem to understand that these very mechanisms - of sociologal, cultural and historical nature - actually have unfolded during the last millenias. Leaving us all in a cul de sac...

When time allows I hope we may elaborate some more on the basis of the sound that form the word and the meaning of "mystery".
The first syllable "MY" is indeed a biggie within the sounds of our languages. So we may have some goodie in spare for the winter...

Good to back online!

Best regards

IP: 195.159.181.57

Boreas
Member posted 09-19-2004 19:37
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The My-sound still causing me trouble. At present the analyzis have come a bit further, - and the more we understand the bigger it gets.
The feminine aspect of the whole word - My-S-Te-Ra is completly ob vious. Still we have the i in the beginning/end, that is re-pointing/re-inforcing the whole thing once more.
Then there is occuring a number of essential connotations (i.e. sounds as words AND ascociations ("meaning")). Like My-Sa(winking), My-Ga (mosq-i-to), My-Ra (ant), Myrra (Myrrh), My-Se (whey), My-Te (myth!). And it just keeps growing, multidimensionly, from there. A basic word from the latin pop-ups are my-cel-i-um.

"i-um" refers to the phrase "home", also in terms of our planet. Thus ium also reflects to an earthly "omni-presence".

Then "my-cell" reflects the most tiny, microscopic cells. Like my-cro/mi-cro is inside the visible nature, while ma-cro reflects the large, or overall, grand sum of visible nature.

Finally we check the whole word itself - and what it is used to describe - as of today. That takes us to the world of Biology, - where the mycelium is known to has an awful lot to do with the origin AND present basis of all biological life, as we know it...

So the impact and implications of the sound "my" may be seen to be of "vast proportions".

IP: 195.159.190.127

[This message has been edited by rockessence (edited 02-25-2005).]

80:4.1 While the Andites poured into Europe in a steady stream, there were seven major invasions, the last arrivals coming on horseback in three great waves. Some entered Europe by way of the islands of the Aegean and up the Danube valley, but the majority of the earlier and purer strains migrated to northwestern Europe by the northern route across the grazing lands of the Volga and the Don.

80:4.2 Between the third and fourth invasions a horde of Andonites entered Europe from the north, having come from Siberia by way of the Russian rivers and the Baltic. They were immediately assimilated by the northern Andite tribes.

80:4.3 The earlier expansions of the purer violet race were far more pacific than were those of their later semimilitary and conquest-loving Andite descendants. The Adamites were pacific; the Nodites were belligerent. The union of these stocks, as later mingled with the Sangik races, produced the able, aggressive Andites who made actual military conquests.

80:4.4 But the horse was the evolutionary factor which determined the dominance of the Andites in the Occident. The horse gave the dispersing Andites the hitherto nonexistent advantage of mobility, enabling the last groups of Andite cavalrymen to progress quickly around the Caspian Sea to overrun all of Europe. All previous waves of Andites had moved so slowly that they tended to disintegrate at any great distance from Mesopotamia. But these later waves moved so rapidly that they reached Europe as coherent groups, still retaining some measure of higher culture.

80:4.5 The whole inhabited world, outside of China and the Euphrates region, had made very limited cultural progress for ten thousand years when the hard-riding Andite horsemen made their appearance in the sixth and seventh millenniums before Christ. As they moved westward across the Russian plains, absorbing the best of the blue man and exterminating the worst, they became blended into one people. These were the ancestors of the so-called Nordic races, the forefathers of the ScandinavianĘ, German, and Anglo-Saxon peoples.

80:4.6 It was not long before the superior blue strains had been fully absorbed by the Andites throughout all northern Europe. Only in Lapland (and to a certain extent in Brittany) did the older Andonites retain even a semblance of identity.

I am afraid I can`t really relate exstensivly to the stories covered by the Urantia papers.

The populisation of Northern Eurasia is obviously ARTICALS. But, - the time and place of the origin - of the first artical population is still far from sufficently explained. By proof.

But, - we do already know that there have actually been existing A Artical Population
already 280.000 years ago. In Finland. We also know that "modern man" visited the White Sea and The Kara Ocean, - already 40.000 years ago.

We also know that this population disapeared - due to the "deluge" appearing when the glacier covering 95 % of Fenno-Scandia started moving, aprox. 10.700 years ago. As this glacier broke up, the part covering Finland started moving south. As the glacier slided towards the ocean the ancient population of the Finnish archepelago would either escape - or being pushed into the ocean.

Seemingly some of them did escape and survive, - since we still see a relative large group of artical populations still today. And we can even follow a line of development of this culture, from the time when the first groups of ALL the artical populations (Europeans, Russians) arrived about 10.000 years ago. And we can still see that this populations still express a large number of etnical, lingual and cultural expressions - closely related to the Artical Nature.

This simple time-line is based on the growingly famous discoveries made over the last decade by Scandinavian and Russian scientists. (www.nba.fi, etc.)

So far the oldest of ALL known artical populations is found in the Finnish Archepelago. Consequently we have to direct our attention to this specific area to establish a historical background for the fully and completly "climatized" kind of human, that populated the Finnish archipelago already DURING ice-time.

9-10.000 years ago this people started populating the vast and empty area of the artical climate-zone. Given the speed they have expanded by it must be this ONE, pre-boreal population that have developed the skills and abilities to sustain the artic winter, under scarce circumstances. Thus we may explain the origin and the fast expension of the artical population, that already 8000 years ago covered the entire Eurasian continent, from Biscaya to The Chinese Wall. 6-7.000 years ago they sailed across the Atlantic Ocean, populating the Orkneys, The Feroe Islands, etc. As to when they reached the American continent is still not clearified, - but the mentioned Clovis culture may still be an early appearance of articals, populating coastal areas of the Artical America, as we have seen from the excavations on New Foundland.

A funny piece in the puzzle is actually a picture of a highly organized society and a gouvermental order depicted in the cultural antiquities today found from the Eurasian mesolittic (early stone-age). Already 8.000 years ago we find a organised culture covering the east of Eurasia, while western Europe had a similar but still distinctly separate expresions. Cross-referencing a gross amount of archeoloigcal items one seems noe to agree that we have had eastern AND western charactheristics separate already 8.000 years ago...!

Still today we can divide the linguistical and etnical border of Euraisa by the same old line, starting at the top of the border between Finland and Sweden - following the old border-river straigth south, crossing Aland before following the old border-river Weichsel/Wizla in todays Poland, before reaching Balkan, Moldovia and the shores of the Black Sea.

Just recently we had another astonishing discovery revealed in this matter;

---

"Prehistoric skeleton unearthed in Bulgaria"

The skeleton of a prehistoric woman believed to
represent the first agricultural civilization
existing on Bulgarian land was unearthed near the
village of Ohoden, Vratsa district, northwest
Bulgaria. Archeologists found the skeleton on the
river bank of the local Skut river. The finding
was approximately dated back 9,000 years, which
makes the 'Bulgarian farmer' five centuries older
than the already known humans to have lived on
the Balkan Peninsula.
The skeleton was revealed during excavation
works in a pre-historic village unearthed from a
depth of 2 m. "This woman skeleton is five
centuries older than those which were found in
the Balkans and belong to the first generation of
farmers that inhabited this region," said
archaeologist Georgy Ganetsovski, who made the
discovery.
The village seemed to be very well
preserved after being devasted by a big fire.
Archeologists said that the people living on
these lands in prehistoric times were the first
to invent ceramics and to build thermally
isolated solid houses. They were convinced that
the Ohoden finding would redraft the history of
human civilization.

Sources: Novinite, (31 October 2004), The Hindu (7 November 2004) http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=40971 http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/003200411072167.htm

We do also use the word "Trćl" or "Trael" (if your comp doesent support this letter)
to describe hard or troublesome work.

"In this time that was called PARADISE people lived in harmony with nature laws and -powers. At that time the earth's axis stood perpendicular to the sun. For this reason existed a land at the North pole with a diameter of 250km where the sun never went down but instead described a golden ring at the horizon. This land was called the ringland UUDENMAA, the sunland. Today it is a province in the South of Finland. In the time called PARADISE the South Pole was located in the ocean. The center of UUDENMAA was a city built on seven hills and seven islands. It was the cradle of humanity with the name HEL. The planet was divided in ringlands which all had a center connected with HEL. Inside UUDENMAA lived the ASER. In the outer ringlands lived the VANER who were descendants from the ASER.

Humanity was one family consisting of five classes: Piru-et, Rus-et, Jarl-et, Karl-et and Trel-et
PIRUET and RUSET are the ASER in UUDENMAA, JARLET, KARLET, TRELET are the VANER outside of UUDENMAA. The ASER spoke ROT language (speak: root) from which todays Swedish originates. For the VANER they created in all ringlands the VAN language (speak: one), comparable with todays Finish. PIRUET created RUSET, RUSET created JARLET, JARLET created KARLET and KARLET created TRELET. Thus a pyramidical family structure was guaranteed.
The top of the pyramid was formed by the Bock-Family (Piruet) which consisted of PER ( The Allfather), and ELLA (The Earthmother), Bock and SVAN who created at least 12 sons and 7 daughters. The first son was RA (Ers), the first daughter MAYA (Maj). They became King and Queen of the family when they were 27 years old. They did not make any children, nor did the following ten brothers and 6 sisters. When the 12th son became 27 years old he took over the position of his father and became the new Bock who again begot 12 sons and 7 daughters with a new SVAN -choosen under the Vaner.

Together with the DISAS (the stem-mothers) Bock created the second class-RUSET consisting of RABIS, NARS, DISAS and SIENARES. The RABIS became the Allfathers of the ringlands outside UUDENMAA. The NARS represented the male part and the sienares the female part of the information system that spread out from HEL over the whole planet......"

http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nerc.html#maps http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercNORTHAMERICA.html

As we see the same main stages of development are paralell in time, using geological time-frames. Understanding that "ice-time" began - endured, and ended, - at the same periods all over the Northern Hemisphere.

The last stages - before our time - have been so well understood, today - that modern geologists like Adams have the with to collect and verify the mass of information neccecary to create A all-over-view that may result in a world-map, describing the globe, 10.000+ years ago.

Over the last years we have seen more and more maps constructed, - both locally, regionally and continentally. Based on the remarkable work by Danish climatologists we can now get "technically confirmed" information about the climate over the Greenland Ice-Sheet over the last 170.000 years. That confirming archeological/biochemical estimates from different sites over large areas have helped a lot to get clear on the periods of the climate at the time, such as "melting periods" and "interglacials".

Together with an exstensive body of geological information it is possible to draw maps of the last 120.000 years. Somehow.

But there is still MUCH ground to cover before we have a clear, scientifically confirmed picture of the entire ice-time.
Some one year ago I asked Johnathan Adams
if there is chance of getting a map describing the glaciers definite MAXIMUM size, understanding that is a key to get closer to a definite age/duration of the anamolay that occured as the globe started to freeze - from both south and north, simultaniously...

The answer was most clearly; "Not possible". Which corresponds to the feed-back I got from other geologists/climatologists at the time, normally adressing the problems of gaining certanity about anything older than 120.000 years - occurring ON the surface of the crust...

Luckily, Mr. Adams is a young and vigourous scientist. When I see the work he already have added to his merrits over the last year I guess he will be among the first to pull that investigation together...!

Meanwhile we may keep focus on what happened over the last 120.000 years, - since both "Modern Civilization" as well as "Atlantis" is much younger than that.
It also means that the population existing within the Baltic Ocean 120.000 years ago - already - have had to be very, very artical.

This means that nature have been able to develop ONE tribe of the original man, outside the tropical world, - to survive and endure in an "high-artic climate", where the ground is covered with ice and snow half of the year...

Adapting to such a complete "climate-shock" is incredibly demanding. The chance that such an isolated culture is minimal. And its less than nothing if these people was unable to undergo many serious adaptions, - such as food, warmth, health, habits, work, etc. - in order to simply survive. To pic up more sun, during the shorth summer, - the skin got lighter, even turning completly white. Pale white. Only a few birthmarks with pigments - keeping the color of their original, tropical skincolor. That also why the articals developed green/blue ices. They`re still low on sunshine & pigment.

Today we have artical people still existing. We call them caucasians.
If they did NOT exist 120.000 years ago, - then WHICH kind of people did then exist inside the Baltics 120.000 years ago? Another artic population??!

I have still to hear a etnologist defending the theory that we have had TWO different types of artical man. If so; How many Etruscans/Chineese/Mayans/Aboriginals/Neanderthals? Do any biologist find it likely that TWO - different - hybrids should occur twice, - from one and the same parental origin?!

Laurence Gardiner:
"Genesis of the Grail Kings",
Lecture at Nexus Conference, Sydney 1999.

It seems like hardly any time since I was here. It's only ten months ago, I guess, but in the past few months Genesis of the Grail Kings has been completed, published and is already making a significant impact in Britain, with launches now taking place further afield.

Duncan has asked me to begin by giving some background about myself once again. I am involved with a number of organisations - the Celtic Church being one in particular, for which I'm the Grand Prior in Britain [that is, the Celtic Church of the Sacred Kindred of St Columba]. Not necessarily that the established Church organisations like the Celtic movement very much, but that's the way of it. I am also appointed as a Presidential Attaché to an organisation called The European Council of Princes.

The Council was founded in 1946, directly after the War, and the object was fairly straightforward. (In fact, some of the financing actually came from this country [Australia], and a lot from America as well). It was at a time when there was a tremendous fear about the build-up of further extremist right-wing factions, and there was also the fear that the communist left-wing might take a hold in Europe. It was decided, therefore, to set up a watchdog committee called The International Council of Government, whose brief was to keep an eye on the extreme political factions. As it transpired, it didn't have very much to keep an eye on and, once the European Common Market came into being, it became much more involved with that from the 1960s. The Council quite liked the idea of the trading agreements and the general mutuality, although it doesn't like things too much in the way they have now developed within the European Union.
About ten tears ago, the Council changed its name to become The European Council of Princes. With the eventual establishment of the European Parliament, there could hardly be a Council of Government as well. In fact, the Council was not a government at all: it was simply an advisory body consisting of thirty-three European royal houses. These might be reigning houses, dispossessed houses or deposed houses but, whatever the case, various princes and princesses of these families formed the Council. For the longest time now, their objective has been a fairly simple one, and that is to look after the constitutional clauses within the various nation states (European countries, with the exception of Britain, have Written Constitutions). And so, when the European Parliament decides to enact this new law or impose that new dictate, the Council of Princes is able to say, "Look, you can't actually do that because it contravenes, say, clause 7 in subsection (b) of the Constitution of this or that country".
The Council of Princes is not especially political - it is more of a social Council in practice; and I am appointed as an Attaché by virtue of the fact that its President since 1992 has been HRH Prince Michael of Albany, the current heir to the Royal House of Stuart - the House that was deposed in Britain from 1688.
The House of Stuart, having taken over the presidency of the Council from the House of Habsburg-Austria, related it to its one-time Royal Academy, which was a very scientific establishment. In fact, in the 1700s in particular, it was highly Rosicrucian - very scientific and alchemical. From the time of Robert the Bruce, the Chancellor of that organisation was given the title Prince Saint Germain. This title had little to do with the 5th-century saint himself (except indirectly), but it had to do ultimately with the Stuart Royal Court in France, at the Palace of Saint Germain.
The Chancellor title was changed in the 1700s to Count Saint Germain, and in the 1890s it was changed again to become Chevalier Saint Germain. My present title is that of Chevalier Saint Germain - which is where the knighthood comes from. As distinct from an English knighthood, mine is a Franco-Scot distinction attached to the Stuart Royal Court of France [as ratified by King Louis XIV in 1692], in the key Noble Order of the Royal Palace of Saint Germain-en-Laye, near Paris.
Being a Stuart supporter, I am not really a great fan of the House of Hanover, as you know. However, I have now become attached to a particular Hanoverian establishment. The oldest antiquarian society in the world, constituted by the House of Hanover [by charter of King George III of Britain] in the middle 1700s, is an association called the Society of Antiquaries which, in Scotland, forms an adjunct to Historic Scotland - a Government department. Well, as a non-fan of the House of Hanover, I was privileged and delighted a few months ago to be made a Fellow of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland - so it rather looks as if I've been blessed to have a little bit of a foot in the establishment's academic camp.
Now, back to where we are today. I have to begin of course by thanking Duncan and the NEXUS team for affording me the opportunity to link my first Australian visit for the new book, Genesis of the Grail Kings, with the NEXUS Conference. And I would like to thank those of you who, since I was last here, have written to me. Some of you may have had a reply by now; my correspondence was more or less up to date around Christmas, but it has fallen behind again. So, if you're still waiting, please bear with me; I will respond.
I first began to talk publicly about the subject matter of Genesis of the Grail Kings back in October 1997 and, indeed, we covered a good deal of related ground at the NEXUS Conference last July. So, with the book now completed and published, I guess the time has come to move on to other things in preparation for future works.
Originally, and beginning with Bloodline of the Holy Grail, I had planned for a series of three books on the Grail theme, covering some 6,000 years of Messianic inheritance from the time of Adam, through King David and Jesus, down to the present day. However, in the course of compiling this genealogical descent and its fascinating history, the concept for another book has arisen. This has come about more by popular demand than by strategic planning, and I have become so enthused with the idea that there will now be four books in this particular series. It is, in fact, about this fourth book (rather than the immediate Genesis successor) that I would like to speak today.
Bloodline of the Holy Grail covers an historical period from the time of Jesus through the past 2,000 years. Subsequently, Genesis of the Grail Kings was written to answer the most asked of all resultant readers' questions: Why was the Grail Bloodline so important in the first place? Why was the kingly line which descended to Jesus and beyond so unique from the outset in old Mesopotamian times?
This was the subject which we discussed here last year, and we saw how the Messianic succession of Grail dynasts (or Dragon Kings) was alchemically conceived and purpose-bred for the role of earthly leadership. We looked at the records of ancient Sumer, which talked of the Anunnaki gods and their "creation chamber". We saw how the great vulcans of the era produced the enigmatic Highward Fire-stone (the white powder of monatomic gold) that was used to feed the Light-bodies of the Babylonian Kings and Egyptian Pharaohs. And we saw how this substance, when ingested, had stunning effects on the body's endocrinal system. Ultimately, we followed the senior line of royal descent (a line that was genetically determined by the mitochondrial DNA of the Dragon Queens) down to the time of Moses. And we visited the Temple, discovered in 1904, high on the Bible's Mount Horeb, where the monatomic fire-stone was made.
Now we shall take a look at the wider scheme of things, in terms of the folklore and fable which have emanated from the alchemical realm of the Pendragons. And we shall consider, in particular, the longstanding disputes which have prevailed between the sacred Bloodline and the Church establishment. These stories and their historical roots (whether portrayed in fairy tale, nursery rhyme or Gothic romance) will form the basis of a forthcoming book, entitled Ring Lords of the Dragon: Beyond the Portal of the Twilight Realm.
So, today, we shall be looking at the world of enchantment, with a little myth, a little magic and a good deal of historical fact, as some of the characters of popular legend take their place on the stage of reality. And, at the conclusion of this talk, we shall open the door to one of the most intriguing, but suppressed, secrets of our heritage.
On the face of it, the Grail-related stories (whether of Cinderella, Robin Hood, Sleeping Beauty or Count Dracula) each hold their separate mysteries and enchantments, but it is not generally understood that they all stem from a common historical base which is rooted in the culture of the Grail Kings. Even though some of the themes have their origins in very old lore, the majority of tales (as we know them) were newly slanted from the Dark Ages onwards, and especially from mediaeval times when the Church's persecution of Grail heretics was in full swing, leading to the Catholic Inquisitions.
Among the best known of these heterodox Christians (or "heretics") in the Middle Ages were the Cathars, the Pure Ones of the Languedoc region in southern France. And they, in line with the Dragon tradition of the Ouroboros Ring Lords, referred to the Messianic Bloodline as the Elven Race. As we shall see, the terms "elf", "fairy", "pixie" and the like were all representative of various castes within the kingly succession.
The Ouroboros (as detailed in Genesis of the Grail Kings) was a symbol of wholeness, unity and eternity, usually identified by a serpent (in the form of a ring) clutching its own tail. With a cross positioned beneath the ring, the emblem becomes the familiar device of the female - the Venus symbol (as portrayed on the cover of Genesis of the Grail Kings). Alternatively, with a cross positioned above the ring, it becomes the masculine Orb of sovereign regalia. And with the cross positioned within the ring, it becomes emblematic of the Holy Grail itself - identified as the Dew Cup, or the Rosi-crucis.
In the Cathar language of old Provence, a female elf was an albi (elbe or ylbi), and Albi was the name given to the main Cathar centre in Languedoc. This was in deference to the matrilinear heritage of the Grail dynasty, for the Cathars were supporters of the original Albi-gens - the Elven Bloodline which had descended through the Dragon Queens of yore, such as Lilith, Miriam, Bathsheba and Mary Magdalene. It was for this reason that, when Simon de Montfort and the armies of Pope Innocent III descended upon the region in 1209, it was called the Albigensian Crusade. Through some 35 years, tens of thousands of innocent people were slaughtered in this brutal campaign - all because the inhabitants of the region were champions of the original concept of Grail kingship, as against the pseudo-style of monarchy which had been implemented by the papal machine.
In practical terms, Church kingship prevailed from the 8th century and it has continued through the ages to the present day. But the fact is that, under the strict terms of sovereign practice, all such monarchies and their affiliated governments have been illegitimate.
So, what is Church kingship? It is precisely that with which we have become so familiar. It applies to all monarchs who achieve their regnal positions as a result of Church coronation - by the Pope, or, in Britain, by the Archbishop of Canterbury. In terms of true kingship, there is no necessity for coronation because kingly and queenly inheritance are, and always were, "in the blood" - to be precise, in the mitochondrial DNA of the Sangréal.
In the old scheme of things, kingship was automatic because it was an alchemical inheritance which, in practice, had nothing to do with ruling over anyone or anywhere. By virtue of an illegal dictate, however, monarchies were brought under Church control and the magical Realm of the Ring Lords was supplanted by the material and territorial reigns of the papal kings.
One might ask why this was allowed to happen. Why did no one stand up for the legacy of the Holy Grail? Well, the fact is, they did; the Cathars did, the Knights Templars did, the Rosicrucians did. Indeed, any number of gnostic groups and fraternities did, and it was this open support which led to the hideous tortures and executions of the papal Inquisitions and witch-hunts that persisted through so many generations.
By the Middle Ages, the Church controlled the majority of European monarchies (with Scotland a notable exception, as a result of which King Robert the Bruce and the whole Scottish nation were excommunicated). The Church, therefore, influenced governments, parliaments and educational establishments (as it still does today). And, by implication if not by direct instruction, the military forces of the pseudo-kings operated at Church command.
The Church held such enormous financial, political and military power that the Grail adherents became an "underground stream", living in fear of their lives at every turn. They were not only heretics: they were singled out for punishment as sorcerers and necromancers. And since they did not conform to papal dictates, they were clearly Satanists! The women, of course, were all whores, but this was nothing new; the Roman Church had forged this dogmatic classification at the time of its earliest constitution!
Before looking at some aspects of the Ring legacy, it is important to consider the original document which made Church kingship possible in the first place. In this context, I do not use the word "important" lightly, because the implementation of this particular document some 1,248 years ago led to just about every social injustice that has since been experienced in the Christian world. The document to which I refer is called "The Donation of Constantine". All monarchical and governmental practice has, for centuries, been based upon the initial precept of this charter but, as we shall see, the precept is wholly invalid.
There are those in our midst today who, under the dynastic rule of Grail entitlement, are rightful kings and queens. But many of the dynasties which have actually reigned have done so with little or no sovereign heritage. They have gained their positions simply because it suited the Church to crown them as its puppet representatives.
Moving forwards in history from the Pharaohs of Egypt, the Davidic Kings of Judah and the Dragon Kings of Scythia, we arrive in the Dark Ages with the Celtic kingdoms of Europe and, essentially for the purposes of this story, with the Fisher Kings in Gaul (which later became France).
It is because of this continuing period of Grail sovereignty in the Celtic realms that conventional history now refers to the "Dark Ages" - about which, we are told, there is so little documentary record. There is, however, any amount of surviving material from the era. The period is only "dark" because the Church and the imperial overlords decided to veil it from scrutiny, removing documentary evidence from the educational environment in order to perpetuate the myth that everyone and everything outside the Roman establishment was ignorant and barbaric.
As detailed in Bloodline of the Holy Grail, the Church of Rome (founded by Emperor Constantine the Great in the 4th century) had little to do with the Nazarene style of Christianity which it officially superseded and had hitherto persecuted. It was an entirely new, hybrid form of male-dominated "churchianity" based upon a contrived apostolic succession of popes.
The separate Nazarene movement (often called the Celtic Church) continued in opposition under the direction of Grail dynasts from the family of Jesus, and they were styled the Desposyni, meaning Heirs of the Lord.
At that time, the Bloodline houses of the Desposyni held the reins of Dragon kingship in Europe. But the bishops of the Roman Church sought to undermine this tradition, and eventually managed this in the 8th century when they deposed the Merovingian Fisher Kings of the Franks after some 300 years of regnal succession.
With the sudden, contrived demise of this Grail dynasty in 751, a new style of kingship was introduced in the West - kingship not by any right of succession, but by individual decree of the Pope - and it was this which led to much of the fairy tale and folklore which is so familiar today. The new style of papal kingship was made possible by the so-called "Donation of Constantine" which, although now known to have been forged, was not open to debate at the time.
When the Donation made its first appearance in the middle 8th century, it was alleged to have been written by Emperor Constantine 400 years earlier (although, strangely, never produced in the interim). It was even dated and carried his supposed signature. What the document proclaimed was that the Pope was Christ's elected representative on Earth, with the power to "create" kings as his subordinates. The provisions were put into operation by the Vatican in 751, whereupon the longstanding Merovingians were deposed and a whole new dynasty was supplemented by way of a family who had hitherto been mayors of the Royal Palace (the equivalent of prime ministers). They were dubbed "Carolingians", and their only king of any consequence (through some 236 years) was the legendary Charlemagne.
As a result of this strategy, the whole nature of monarchy changed from being an office of "guardianship" to one of "rule". Henceforth, the papal monarchs were territorial governors rather than patriarchs of the people. By virtue of this monumental change, the longstanding Grail Code of princely service was forsaken and European kings became servants of the Church - which had the power to make them or break them.
How do we know today that the Donation is a forgery? Well, there are many reasons, but the most obvious is that its New Testament references relate to the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible. This edition was translated and compiled by St Jerome who was not born until the year 340, some 26 years after Constantine (who died, anyway, in 337) supposedly signed the document! Indeed, there was more than half a century between Constantine's alleged signing and the appearance of the particular Latin Bible that was used in its content. Notwithstanding this, the language of the Donation was, in any event, that of the 8th century and bore no relation to the writing style of Constantine's day.
The truly ridiculous aspect of all this is that the Donation was proved to be a forgery some 550 years ago, during the Renaissance, but its overwhelming dictate, which cemented the Pope as the supreme spiritual and temporal head of Christendom, has prevailed regardless.
As explained in Genesis of the Grail Kings, the monarchs of the Grail succession were called Messiahs (Anointed Ones) because, in the early days in Mesopotamia and Egypt, they were anointed with the fat of the sacred Messeh (the holy dragon or crocodile). By virtue of this, they were also called Dragons. The Dragon, emblematic of wisdom, was the epitome of the Holy Spirit which, according to the Book of Genesis, moved upon the waters of time, while the Grail was the perpetual Blood Royal - the Sangréal. Originally, in old Mesopotamia, it was called the Gra-al - the Sacred Blood of the Dragon Queens - and it was said to be the "nectar of supreme excellence". The ancient Greeks called it ambrosia.
The concept of fairies (the fair folk) was born directly from this base, being a derivative of "fey" and relating especially to "fate". In the Celtic world, certain royal families (especially those of the Pendragons, or Head Dragons) were said to carry the Fairy Blood - that is to say, the fate or destiny of the Grail Bloodline - while the Elf Maidens of the Albi-gens were the designated guardians of the Earth, starlight and forest.
But how was it that the dragons, fairies and elves of history became enveloped within a shroud of supernatural enigma? Why was it that their stories were moved from the world of reality into a domain of romance and nursery tale? What had all this to do with the Donation of Constantine?
To answer these questions, we must now step through the Portal of Enchantment into the Twilight Realm of the Shining Ones, for theirs is the enlightened Realm of the Ring Lords.
Three Rings for the Elven Kings under the sky.
Seven for the Dwarf Lords in their halls of stone.
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die.
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne,
In the Land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all.
One Ring to find them.
One Ring to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
So it is cited by Gandalf the Wizard in Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, one of the most popular tales of all time.
In essence, the contested ownership of the One Ring is little different to the enduring quest for the Holy Grail. Although presented from quite opposite standpoints, both are quests for the maintenance of sovereignty, but each has been misapplied at various stages of history by those who perceived the Ring and the Grail as power weapons. Hence, it was imperative (in the respective stories) that access to the Grail was protected by severe questions, just as it was essential to keep the One Ring from the evil Sauron of Mordor, who eventually lost his power when the Ring was destroyed in the fires of the Mount of Doom.
There is, however, an essential difference between Tolkien's One Ring, which is portrayed as dark and divisive, and the Golden Ring of Grail romance, which is a ring of love and enlightenment. The latter was further symbolised by the ring of iron-clad knights who sat at the Round Table - a ring that was broken (leading the land into chaos and waste) when Arthur forsook the Celtic Code in favour of the Roman persuasion (or, as the later Christianised version of the story differently explains, when Guinevere was unfaithful to Arthur with Lancelot).
It has been said on occasions that the great genius of 19th-century composer Richard Wagner was that he recognised the Ring saga as a version of the Grail Quest. However, if anything, the reverse is true. What he recognised was that the popular Holy Grail legends were, in fact, stylised retellings of the more traditional Ring Quest.
Both Richard Wagner and Alfred, Lord Tennyson (in his Arthurian writings) understood that the Grail Quest was a spiritual aspect of the Ring Quest, but that in essence they were alike, if not the same. What they also recognised was the fact that both the Ring and the Grail could bring disaster, though by different means. The power of the Ring had to be withstood, otherwise it would enslave its master, whereas the power of the Grail would retaliate with vengeance if misused. Either way, the moral is the same in that, ultimately, power is self-destructive when achieved through selling one's soul. Hence, the Ouroboros Ring can be a halo or a crown, but it can equally become a noose.
Adolf Hitler's fanatical obsession with finding the Hallows of Grail Castle was a prime example of this misconceived notion of power. In his search for the Hallows, he obtained an ancient lance (said to have been used by Charlemagne) which he insisted was the Longinus spear that pierced the side of Jesus at the Crucifixion. This, he reckoned, was the sacred Spear of Destiny, so revered in Grail lore. With this in his possession, Hitler was confident that his empire would be as strong as that of Charlemagne. But legend had it that, after many great victories, Charlemagne was doomed to defeat from the moment he lost the magical weapon. And so it was that on 30 April 1945 - the very day when the American 7th Army, under General Patton, seized the lance from Nuremberg Castle - Adolf Hitler accepted his defeat and [apparently] shot himself.
Whether applied in fact or fantasy, the concept of the Ring and the Grail was such that it inspired hope for the social and natural environments. The Grail Hallows (the Sword, Chalice, Ouroboros and Spear) were traditionally regarded as tools of princely service but, when presumed to be weapons of power, they would always, one way or another, destroy the wielder from within. These Hallows were represented in the four suits of the Tarot's Minor Arcana as the Swords, Cups, Pentacles and Wands - subsequently to become the Spades, Hearts, Diamonds and Clubs that we know today.
Throughout the best part of this millennium, no organisation has misused the Grail Chalice symbolism to greater effect than the Christian Church establishment. From the earliest times, the Rosi-crucis (the chalice and wine of the Grail sacrament) was a prerogative of the Albi-gens, being emblematic of the Blood Royal in the womb of the Dragon Queen. However, the Church has long misappropriated this aspect of the Hallows ceremony to become its Eucharistic power-weapon, supposedly to bind its followers into communion with ecclesiastical dogma. But, as time goes by, this very power is being seen to subside as the congregations diminish in the quest for greater truths and more substantial enlightenment from legitimate sources.
In William Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream, the Queen of the Fairies is Titania, whose name represents the pre-Olympian god-race of the Titans. In particular, she is the Moon Goddess Diana. Their king, Oberon, however, had an historical base, being inspired by an ancestor of Shakespeare's colleague Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford. He was a founding member of Elizabeth Tudor's 16th-century Court Poetry and Magic Syndicate - along with Francis Bacon, John Dee, Edmund Spenser and others of the Rosicrucian "underground stream" who aided and guided much of Shakespeare's work.
Edward de Vere was, at that time, Lord Chancellor of England - as had been many generations of his forebears, including Albrey, the 12th-century Prince of Anjou and Guisnes, whose titular name, Albe-Righ, meant Elf King. What the Syndicate knew full well, despite their loyalty to Elizabeth, was that the House of Tudor had no prior right to the English throne, having simply taken it, by might of the sword, from the preceding House of Plantagenet.
That apart, the Plantagenets themselves were a junior branch of the House of Anjou, whose senior branch was the House of Vere. Indeed, in 1861, the noted royal historian Baron Thomas Babington Macaulay described the Veres as "the longest and most illustrious line of nobles that England has ever seen". Their ancestry was jointly Pictish and Merovingian, descending from the ancient Grail House of Scythia. Here was a true kingly line of the Elven Race, and it was for this reason that Oberon (a variant of Aubrey/Albrey, the historical Elf King) became Shakespeare's King of the Fairies. Such was the translatory nature of all Rosicrucian symbology, whether portrayed in stories, artwork, watermarks or the Tarot.
Some time earlier, in 1408, Edward de Vere's ancestor, Richard (Lord Chamberlain and 11th Earl of Oxford), had been invested as a Knight of the Garter by King Henry IV at Windsor Castle. Also invested at the same time was King Sigismund of Hungary, who had revived the ancient Egyptian Order of the Dragon - within which Richard de Vere held the hereditary distinction of Lord Draconis.
One way or another, the nursery tales which emanated from the "underground stream" were stories of lost brides and usurped kingship - based upon the subjugation of the Grail Bloodline by the Church of Rome and, in later times, by the sectarian Puritans of the Protestant movement. The Catholics had their Dominican Grand Inquisitor, Tomâs de Torquemada, and the Puritans had their equivalent in Matthew Hopkins, the Witchfinder-General. Favoured executions, in each case, were hanging, drowning or burning at the stake, and the common command was: "Kill them all - God will know his own!"
The fairy tale concept was essentially geared to stories relating to these persecutions: allegorical accounts of the predicament of the true Royal Family - the Ring Lords of the Sangréal, whose fairies and elves (having been manoeuvred from the mortal plane of orthodoxy and status quo) were confined to a seemingly Otherworld existence.
They were tales of Grail Princes who were turned into frogs, of Swan Knights who roamed the wasteland, and of Dragon Princesses locked in towers or put to sleep for hundreds of years. In the course of their persecution, the Elf Maidens were pricked with bodkins, fed with poisoned apples or condemned to servitude - while their champions swam great lakes, battled through thickets and scaled mighty towers to secure and protect the matrilinear heritage of the Albi-gens. They include such well-known stories as Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, Snow White and Rapunzel.
In all cases, the underlying theme is the same, with the Bloodline Princess kept (through drugging, imprisonment or some form of restraint) out of reach of the Grail Prince who has to find and release her in order to preserve the dynasty and perpetuate the line. For the most part, the establishment of the "Mother Church" was symbolised by a malevolent stepmother, an evil witch or some other jealous female with an opposing vested interest. Always, the stories are reminiscent of the Lost Bride of the King in the Old Testament's Song of Solomon. Their content also embodies the forlorn aspect of Mary Magdalene, the bride of Jesus, whose royal heritage and maternal legacy were so thoroughly undermined by the Christian bishops.
An interesting feature of many classic fairy tales is that they truly are very old stories. Take Cinderella, for example. If asked who wrote Cinderella, many people would answer that it was the Brothers Grimm, while others would say it was Charles Perrault. However, these men were not actually writers of fairy tales, as is commonly thought. They were collectors, compilers and interpreters of the tales. The story of Cinderella can be traced back to the Carolingian era, with its first known version appearing in the year 850. Perrault published his well-known edition in 1697 in France, while Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm produced their German version in 1812.
Over the years, many people have likened Tolkien's wizard, Gandalf, to Merlin of the Arthurian tales. At the same time, Tolkien's Aragorn has been likened to King Arthur but, as Tolkien himself pointed out, there is really a closer similarity between Aragorn and the historical Charlemagne.
The challenge which faced Charlemagne, who had been charged by the Church to establish a viable Empire from various disunited kingdoms, was not unlike that which confronted Aragorn, who reunited the divided kingdoms of Middle Earth. But there was a marked difference in practice, for Aragorn was far more like Arthur in having an advisory wizard, whereas Charlemagne did not because the Church would not consent to counsellors outside its own appointees.
Aragorn's was therefore more of a Celtic-style environment, with the enemy being the evil Sauron. Charlemagne, on the other hand, was a champion of the Roman Church whose adversaries were the supporters of the unlawfully ousted Merovingian establishment - an establishment to which Aragorn would personally have been well suited.
In the event, it became essential for the Church to settle some form of Ring entitlement upon Charlemagne so that he was perceived to conform to the Dragon tradition. And so a suitable tale was invented to the effect that a serpent appeared at his court with a golden ring in its mouth - an enchanted ring that compelled him to love whoever's finger it was on.
At this stage, it is of interest to note that a newly proposed three-film series of Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings is currently in its early stages of development. After some 18 months of negotiation with the American film company Newline Cinema, the $260-million contract has been acquired by New Zealand film-maker Peter Jackson.
Various parts of New Zealand will apparently make ideal Middle Earth locations for the project, and it is hoped that the first film (based upon Book I of Tolkien's 1950s trilogy) will be released within the next couple of years. This film, The Fellowship of the Ring, will subsequently be followed by The Two Towers and The Return of the King.
With a speaking cast of about sixty and many thousands of extras, it has recently been rumoured that one of the key roles, that of Gandalf, is hotly tipped for Sean Connery. Given that The Lord of the Rings has been voted "the most popular book of the century", and with stars of this calibre, we could well be looking at one of the first mammoth box-office attractions of the new millennium.
The composer Richard Wagner's personal association with Grail lore and, of course, his own famous Ring Cycle are well known. It is therefore very appropriate that one of the present hopeful contenders for The Lord of the Rings film score is Richard Wagner's own descendant, Adrian Wagner, who is now in touch with the film company in this regard.
When Bloodline of the Holy Grail was released, I was heartened to learn that the Wagner Grail tradition of Lohengrin and Parsifal was still very much to the fore. At that time, in parallel with my book, Adrian Wagner released an album called The Holy Spirit and the Holy Grail. Now, as a companion to my latest work, he has composed the compelling musical suite, Genesis of the Grail Kings. [See Audio Reviews, this issue. Ed.]
One apparent fact about Tolkien's elven folk is that, unlike the cute little elves of many children's tales, these characters are actually larger and more powerful than average mortals. They are also endowed with greater powers of wisdom, they ride magical horses and closely resemble the ancient Irish king-tribe of the Tuatha Dé Danann. In this regard, Tolkien was quite accurate with his assessment of the original Ring Lords of the Albi-gens who, in the far distant years BC, were called the Lords of the Sidhé (pronounced "shee").
The Sidhé was a transcendent intellect, known to the Druids as the Web of the Wise, while "druid" (druidhe) was itself a Celtic word for "witch" - an English form of the Saxon verb wicca, meaning "to bend" or "to yield" (as indeed do willow and wicker).
The Tuatha Dé Danann (or Dragon Lords of Anu) were masters of the transcendent Sidhé, and were duly classified as "fates" or "fairies". Before settling in Ireland (from about 800 BC), they were the world's most noble race, alongside the early Kings of Egypt, being the Black Sea Princes of Scythia (now Ukraine). Like the original dynastic Pharaohs, they traced their descent from the great Pendragons of Mesopotamia; and from them sprang the kingly lines of the Irish Bruithnigh and the Picts of Scotland's Caledonia. In Wales they founded the Royal House of Gwynedd, while in Cornwall in the southwest of England, they were the sacred gentry known as the Pict-sidhé - from which derives the term "pixie".
So, from a single caste of the original Blood Royal - whether known as the Sangréal, the Albi-gens or the Ring Lords - we discover many of the descriptive terms which sit at the very heart of popular folklore. For here, in this one noble race, we have the "elves", "fairies" and "pixies" - not beguiling little folk, but distinguished Kings and Queens of the Dragon succession.
One of the most important Scythian words was uper, which meant "over" or "above" - a word that we still use in today's English in such definitions as "superintendent" or "supervisor". In titular form, a Scythian Uper was an Overseer or, more importantly, an Overlord - the equivalent of a Pendragon. Later, in the Hungarian and Romanian regions, the word gained the variant form, Oupire.
Until the mediaeval fabrications of the Christian Church, there was nothing remotely sinister or supernatural about the definition of Oupire, but this was eventually destined to change when the witch-hunts began, for the priestly/kingly Oupires were, in the eyes of Rome, the equivalent of Magian Druids. They were therefore witches, and the Sidhé definition (Web of the Wise) became newly dubbed as "the Web of the Weird".
In the main, outside the Celtic regions of Britain, the traditional Oupires had been apparent in the Balkan and Carpathian regions of Europe, having prevailed from Transylvania to the Black Sea in ancient times. They were therefore not only associated with witches but with Gypsies. The Church bishops and Inquisitional friars suspected them of being the ultimate rulers of the Land of Elphane - the twilight realm of fairy gold, magic springs and the abiding lore of the Greenwood, all of which were anathema to the Church. They were said to be wandering people of the night, who consorted with evil spirits. At that stage, a new word was born into the language of Christian Europe. The word, a straightforward corruption of Oupire, was "vampire".
In addition to vampires, another classification was soon to enter the Inquisitional vocabulary as the Dominican Black Friars and the Franciscan Grey Friars compiled their lists of undesirables. They had now moved beyond the realm of ordinary heretics and pagans, for alongside their fabricated vampire myth they conjured another form of shapeshifting phenomenon: the werewolf.
Quite suddenly, there appeared to be no end to the fantastic creatures that were reckoned to stalk the streets and forests in search of unsuspecting victims. But the beauty of all this was that it had the effect of making people lean more heavily upon the Church - the only perceived route to salvation. These vampires and werewolves, it was said, could not be killed by conventional means. Even God was out of the picture, for only the power of Jesus Christ (the Saviour of humankind) could defeat these diabolical beings. They were portrayed as devils, demons and emissaries of Satan, who had to be exorcised and destroyed by the monks and clerics. And so the Church was in business with a whole new genre of scary folklore to counter the Grail Quest legends and esoteric artwork of the "underground stream".
On the one hand, there were the Albigensian tales of Swan Princes, Dragon Queens and Elf Maidens, comprising the lore of the forgotten Bloodline and the Lost Bride, wherein knights and chivalric champions battled against all odds to preserve the sacred heritage of the Holy Grail. In these stories, there were wizards of the Druidic school and wise hermits to guide the knights upon their journeys and missions. But nowhere in these tales of enchantment did a gallant priest or bishop ever ride to the aid of a damsel in distress, for the Church was, in practice, the adversary.

What the bishops did, however, at the 1545 Council of Trento in northern Italy, was they formally blacklisted and outlawed the prophecies of Merlin, withdrawing all related material from the public domain. Eventually, in order to weigh the literary balance in the Church's favour, a new breed of writing was born, and it came into its own as Gothic Romance.
The premise behind these tales was not so much about saving victims, but rather more about destroying the enemies of contrived "churchianity" - with crucifixes galore and gallons of holy water being the essential weapons in the dreaded undertaking against the sinister "evil ones".
Then, in time, the Christian movement had a wonderful idea for its own Merlin competitor: not a wizard as such, but an early Church bishop with canonised status. But, what a very strange choice they made!
Back in AD 325, one of the characters at Emperor Constantine's Council of Nicaea was a certain Nicholas, Bishop of Myra. At this Church conference the bishops were debating the nature of the Holy Trinity and of how Jesus was not simply the Son of God but was also God incarnate. The ageing Libyan priest, Arius of Alexandria, was not at all happy about this new concept and decided to make his feelings known. But when he rose to speak, Nicholas of Myra immediately punched him in the face!
This, of course, brought the debate firmly back onto the required track - subsequent to which, the violent protagonist was rewarded for his effort and duly became Saint Nicholas. This titular name was later corrupted in parts of Europe to become Sinterklaas or Sintniklaus, and then, in the English-speaking countries, to Santa Claus. Now, by virtue of a good deal of strategic propaganda, he is lovingly revered by children as the jolly, gift-bearing Father Christmas - a far cry from the original vindictive bishop of historical record.

Built on the ruins of the old Roman Empire, the new clerics organised the "new" or "eternal" city, a Metero(-polis) del la Mundo. With it came the monopolistic culture of "Christendom", an off-spring from the philosophies of the greek-arabic area, where the Jewish descendants were making a cult out of their own "honorful traditions and holy scriptures". By some reason it all ended in monopolistic ideologies, suited as a tool -to subjugate, neccesary to rule a conquered population. Which is what the Emperors of Rome missed - to sustain their empire; The Higher God and His Divine Plan. As alibi.

Based on "The Will of Constantine" - a paper presumeably signed by the last emperor of Rome, he gave the Throne of Rome to the Bishop of Rome, to take over the mundane power of the empire. Unheard of course, - but what could the poor servants say or do about it? Keep their old codex` - and most humbly, but most certainly abstain?

Could that have saved us from the horrors and malice expressed by the religious wars and the inquisition - where people moved with brutality, homicide and terror, inflicting pain that would stay for generations - bringing exstinction or corruption to the old, legitimate rulers. and soon poisoning entire culture?

Could a Divine rejection of Constantins old offer have saved the basic mass of written material that did exist - in Egypt as well as in Ireland and Inguchetia. Could the grosser number of old Egyptian/Greek/Roman texts been saved from the book-fires of the inquistione - both in the streets as in a countless number of smaller or larger "church-fires". In 1352 the national archives of Norway was moved to a church in the "new capital" of Bergen. Finally all the papers arrived - just to become smoke - overnigth. Since than the cultural, etnical and cultural history of Scandinavia was erradicated. As the last part of the continent - to be culturally uprooted and deprived.

If just the old clerics of the Divine could have rejected the "treasures of this world" we would surely have saved much more of the old, "pagan" writings of Egypt, Greece, Rome and N Eurasia. Just like we would have had a world of Indians running The Americas - if the religious Rome havent been in desparate need of refunding - galloping all throughout the 15th century.

And what writing did exist in other Eurasian languages, the ones named "barbaric" - before the church started their row of "cultural cleansing"?

Today it is some 1500 years since this superstitious, dictatorial culture started to spread their regime by the word - and the sword - to rule all of the Mediterranean. Already 1200 BP we had the crazyness of war again running through Europe, - as Charlemagne started a crusade among the Franks, - subjugating all the Frankish men into military service - of The Holy See. Later the Frankish army completed what old Rome never accomplished, - to tire out the Anglo-Saxon and the Danish, and by that acquiring England and Scandinavia.

From now on the Bishop of Rome could oversee "all the world" as his regime. Thus he entitled himself Big Daddy, or Pope - publicly instituted as a "Gods Own Replacement On Earth". From then on the Cardinality have effectivly been operating as "Gods (one-and-only) Secretaries" - taking care for all "his" priviledges, priorities and properties throughout the world.

1000 years ago the "second comming" of the Church had completed one old Roman dream. This time helped by The Holy Book, that states the prophecy that "all the world shall again rejoice". Thats also the immediate reason why material from catolic clerics - written shortly before or in the year 1000 (Anno Domini), tell of a widely accepted expectance - namely that Jesus would walk again in the year 1000. One of the main reason given is the premise of the prophecy; "When all the earth is baptized in his name - he will return". With the subjugation of Denmark - and effectivly Scandinavia - as of 987 - the baptism of "all the world" was considered to be achieved.

But Jesus did not rejoin and until 1066 there was still forces of freedom left in Europe. But from then on the Vatican regime becomes gradually all-migthy. In 1152 the Catholic Church opened a new Region-officed in Trondheim, Norway - appointing bishops even on Iceland, Isle of Man and Greenland. The latter bishop is rapported to have appointed priests to the old norse populations, now congregations, in; "Markland", "Helluland", "Landit Goda" and "Vinland". After five years the entire Norwegian Sea Kingdom is organised in the church-system, becomming the "largest Archibispal Seat" in the entire world. Thus the first Archbishop of Trondheim, the english Nicolaus Breakespeare, became the first and last English ever to become Pope himself - tx to the acheivments he made on behalf of the church - understanding that his work provided the church with the influence all over the northern hemisphere -and thereby reaching all the corners of the world. By 1184 the Bishop of Greenland sent envoys far south into the Americas, getting first hand repports on the earthly treasures of the old indian cultures. Although a further exploitation is not possible - before canons and guns - made it possible to generate shere killing-fields.

VINILANDI
Due to well known material, Vinland was taken over by Sir Walther Raleigh, - on the behalf of the English Crown. The Spanish still called that areas "Northumbega" - as they knew of the land, and their norse inhabitants. To put down the mark of England that far south certainly was a new and strong signal - that the English - as the north Europeans - did not like the idea of the Treaty of Tordeisillias, from 1502, where the Pope split the overseas continents between his comrades commanding the Italian, Spanish and Portugeese Fleets.

Before the sea-hero of Britannia baptized Virginnia, we know that this land actually belonged to the Crown of Norway. But at the time of the Spanish and Portuguese raids and conquests the old Norwegian sea-kingdom was all broken - and the regime of the country entirely ruled by the church. Until the remains of the old (legitimate) nobility of Scandinavia conspired, together with the German, French and English collueges - to brake the dictatorship of the Holy See. Evidently this nobel revolt of 1527 started the reformation, - where old and new sources of knowledge and information were allowed - even outside the walls of churches or monastries. For the first time in centuries there could be debate. On the other hand - as the "trade" with the new worlds paid so well off, the Vatican regained its economical strength throughout the 16th century - allowing a serious and long-term financing of millitary and political force directed to re-conquer the lost kingdoms of the north.

As the "contra-reformation" went on as we find decades upon decades with "religious wars". Even 500 years after the reformation there have still been terror and civil warfare - due to religious/political divisions - in the cities of Northern Ireland. It is also funny to note that both WWI and WWII were fougth between the "Holy German-Roman Empire", as it was called already the year 800, when the Bishop of Rome "chrowned" Gods first warlord in Europe, Karl the Great, to be "The Earthly Emperor" of the "Christianized" part of the world.

As more and more of the society and culture was broken down and completly changed, the old nobility somehow survived - with their original language, culture and wisdom intact. Thus we get stories of heroes and of old worlds, of places, people and cultures that may appear strange, mystical or as mere fairy-tales today. Simultaniously we know - for sure - that the pre-christian area is filled with more legends and tales, - but also straigth slander and political/religious stigmatization.

Due to this 1000 year old period of monopoly the Vatican could become very efficent as rulers. But they had to excercise their dominion strict, ruthless and tyrranic. Due to intelectual fear and fundamentalism we then see an effective, all-reaching organisation that goes on the hunt WITHIN their own subjugates, - to find and errase any litterature that were NOT in latin, or not part of the churche`s cultural and educational regime.

Thus we find the inquisitions, as well as the former war-fares, a millenium of destruction, distortion and deceptions of all ancient, but "non-holy" liberies, "pagan books" etc., - which is to say the knowledge and the teachings of the old pagan societies. Who worshipped the ligth of the sun and counted the stars.

Which have made them "sun-belivers". Requiring the logic that our predecessors have considered the sun - and its effects - an issue of discussion...?! About the times before the "start of time", i.e. our anniversial 0.

The most important cradle of the mediterranean culture - before the religions come up with new explanations - seems to be Crete, starting their monumental buildings, etc., close to 9.000 year BP. Both the Roman, the Greek and the Egyptian have nourished from this sources of culture, where art, artistery, travel, trade and communication seems to be the benchmark.

We may see this as a remnisant of Atlantis. We may even have different exprectations, explanations or considerations about the "original Atlantis". We do, though, understand that the pre-christian culture of the Mediterranean area, must be a contimuation of what was "a atlantic culture" arriving, - that were unknown before they suddenly and most surprisingly arrived - through the pillars of Hercules.

There is no doubt that a great part of the early mono-teistic regime went on distorting the main source of just the old culture - of diverse and scientific knowledge - had to overthrow. To gain monopolistic powers it have been neccesary to shun the true history of the Mediterranee, and the influence of Atlantis over all this area. Thats why the inqusition is worth another reply or two; there are still dogmatic misconceptions validating a lot of peoples opinions about the "eternal matters", such as our history as specie and cultures. How else could the entire history of ice-time, the most dramatic change in the history of human life, become a "mere myth" - and a complete misunderstanding - or deception - of an envious air-head, placed behind the Sun, should be the ONLY authority. Thus we slided from being "historically and culturally counscious" to become "spiritually inspired". Just as the "the spirit of the inqisitions" we lost track of all realities behind the different legends. Finally - by the turn of last century - we ended up with the historians describing a human culture of European ice-time as a "mere heresay, a fairy-tale and a vision - bearing no historical significance". That has always been the establishments view on the myth of Atlantis too. As of yet...

5000-year-old commercial seal discovered in Iran

The oldest known commercial seal, estimated to be about 5000 years
old, was recently discovered at the historical site of Jiroft in
southeastern Iran. The director of the archaeological team working at
the site, Yusef Majidzadeh, said that the seal, which bears the image
of a goat with its head leaning back, was discovered near the
governmental structure of the site during the third stage of
excavations. "The 2x2cm marble seal was skillfully made, indicating
that the region was a developed economic center 5000 years ago," he
added.

More from:www.stonepages.com

We know that this culture expanded from a common source - some 9.000 years ago. It shows first on the westcoast of Scandinavia, from where this island-jumping seems to have started. Here we also find the historical capitol of this "Sea-Kingdom", until it became invaded/conquered, around the year 1000. From that period this Kingdom ceased to exist - and its hsitory changed completly.
By the 14th century all mainland Scandinavia was also under the inquisitional rule, ending as an obedient part of the Latin rule and culture.

Some of the old remains lived on though - especially in the most northern areas, close to the "rim of existence". One such example being the populations of Greenland and Labrador. As the connection with their old capitol was broken, they were quickly weakened. By 1372 the "Ships with guns" started appearing from the south - slaying and errasing the old neighbours of the Eskimos.

Not even the churches and the Biscopal Seat was saved. During the 15th century the ships returned and soon errased all the old populations around the coast of Greenland, Labrador and New Foundland. Suitable individs were taken captive and enslaved. Thus the Portuguese named one of their new colonis "Labradore" - naming the resources to exploit.

We all know that Christobal Colon
repported to both the Portuguese and the Spanish about his discoveries. What is also brougth to ligth is that Mr. Colon came by the harbour of Bristol in 1477, on his way back south, from a roundtrip in the north Atlantic. It is also clear he visited Iceland, - which was the normal route of the English/Scottish trade-vessels.

In his admiral notes - the noble Colombus explain how this trip enabled him to visit the northern top of this island, which coastline lasts to the "african climate-zone". That means he probably followed to the English trade-ships to New Founland, were the local "North-men" delivered artic skins, white falcons and artic ivory. Even the Basques are repporting to have sailed to Labrador anually - already from the 11th century - getting dried cod.
The trip - and a set of due meassurements, made the Venetian cartographer the assertion he needed, - to evaluate the milage between the Azores, respc. Canary Islands - and the continent of "Insula Fortunate".

But before the Spanish and Portuguese could gain "free access" to the richness of the Americas the old northern connection via Greenland, giving Norway the "rigths" to eastcoast America, was simply out of the question. Thus the connection-point, Greenland, was extincted. Even the Biscopal Seat, as all other buildings and churches was destroyed. Only a few refugees escaped to Eskimo-camps on the inland ice-cap. The eskimo still tell that story in their sagas. But the last remains of the original Greenlanders, - ceased to exist around 1450 - "after three following summers of pirat-ships attacking with guns", according to the stories of the eskimos.

Since than all stories - not to say A history - of this Atlantic Kingdom ceased to exist. Thus America could be "discovered" 1492. Since 1502 the whole area, from Mexico til Greenland were to be Portuguese. By the Treaty of Tordesillias - for those who like to investigate into the intertia of papal politics during its latest, continental expansion.

ARCHAOLOGY
The archeological evidences from New Foundland 1962 proved that the old ship-culture of the North Atlantic INDEED knew of the continent, as the remains of a Norse village were excavated on Lance Deux Meadows.

Since then a growing amount of evidence and source-material are showing that branches of this population went as far as the sub-artic climate reached down by the east-coast. In 1979 they even found the remains of a nail-built ship, about 950 years old, on an island of Haiti. So the long-distance oceanic sailing was obviously presnt in the early, historical atlantean culture.
The last 30 years have been exposing old scams in a series of archaeological discoveries from the US eastcoast, like "Memories From an Errased Past".

At the end of the day we need to re-asses and reconsider the whole picture of the North-Atlantic area after ice-age. Already 9.000 years ago this culture appeared to inhabit ALL the islands of the Atlantic north. In less than 1000 years they populated all these islands, and after another millenia they had rosen giantic stone-structures, - such as the ones on Orkney Island, still standing.

The main characteristics of this culture was:

1. Basic marin food-culture
2. Ship-building
3. Island agriculture
4. Megalittic Constructions
5. Travel and Trade
6. Oceanography and navigation
7. Art, astronomy and academics

Being the only artical population of the North Atlantic these islanders sure qualify to be "specificly adressed" - as an etnic and cultural group. Like their closest neigbours, the Eskimos.

In the old north the long, dark and frozen period of the artic winter made it neccesary to stay inside, keeping warm, dry, fed and rested. Thus we may understand why/how a Nordic culture would develop certain preferences for indoor, oral activities. Such as playing, acting, story-telling, singing, resiting, etc.

IGLOO MENTALITY
Then it is not without significance that our bodies, voices and minds are all magnificent instruments of expression, as we express and practice our physical and mental talents. Also called "gifts of nature". In an "igloo-society" the volume of expression had to be tempered, developing rytms, sounds, harmonics that still exist in a broad variety of traditional folksongs all over Eurasia.
Thus we may understand how the North deve

POETICS, ART & ETICS
Communicating with poetry, education and finesse made it possible to deal with an endless world of possible observations, sensations, impressions, compassions, insigths, comprehensions and opinions.

With A clear language, able to express all of this distinctivly and clear, we started to get ways and means to express and keep knowledge "on a collective record". Thus we neccesarily had a first saga, or a proto-type of what we may call "Our History" - with a mythology and language that later diverced into different language-groups, as the world population came to be separated for en eon of time - in order to grow into specific, clearly defined sub-groups, today called "races" or "etnic goups". But still we find very close and basic similarities between the different cultures - in terms of constitution, social behaviour, language, myth, art, building and craftmanship.

A GLOBAL BRAIN - again
We even find clear paralells between the ancient cultures of Meso-America, Europe, Africa, Asia. Like megalittic structures, road-systems, townships, agriculture, playgames, performance and music. Not to forget the characteristic "Bird-Man" and the exactly angled pyramids - of monumental size. All around the globe...

In our generation it has been posible to piece the most vital historic information together - and threat it objectively, - in terms of BOTH religion AND politics. Thus new, withdrawn and hidden information have also been revealed - thanks to the growth of Free speech and modern Science.

Though, we have also to detect a large number of old deceptions - that has been presented as "undisputed truth", even in "The Book of Truth" itself. Ever since the Council of Nikea...
Even among the well-educated of todays academia we find many that refer to political scams as plain, historical "truths". Even when clear proves of simple facts exists. That`s deceptions.

Criminals and illegitimate opressors who succed to gain power always act very causciously after the take-over, to take controll of the media - and write the history according to their personal interests.

Thus the coup-making warloards of Rome were creating a crack in their own culture. Many a great tyrrant had been stabbing his way to the the prior Seats of Power and the respective Halls of Fame. Suddenly there was tyrrants who could issue a "Verdict of Rome" - resulting that the earth could become flat over nigth.

There are a lot of decptions still existing in both biblical as historical litterature. The most advanced and inert deception is worth mentioning, being a "contra-deception" in terms. The principle is as funny as it is impressive; "Have people see, what they understand do not exist."

Just:
1) Claim it does not exist.
2) Claim you owe the truth of it.
3) Conclude it does not exist.

To explain your logic - call it "mere phantasy and fairy-tails". Then reassure you owe the truth of it, anyway. Thats why a "headon figure" like Santa Claus was "explained" - just before 1200 - as the propierty of the Church of Rome. Today Roman Cradinals ban the use of Necklas during Chrisitmas - because of his "headon origin".

That means that the Catolic church of today do not by the explanation from the mideval Church. But here - on the Forum of belearned, modern historians - here I still find the strange old, clerical - and highly biased - view, telling that the ancient, cultural hero - Sant Necklas - ACTUALLY was a good Christian.

"A Bishop actually, from Myrra. Who helped the poor and saved a women from being decaptivated...". Just old politics. Lies, distortions and deceptions - to gain "ownership" to a widely popular hero.
Even todays Roman Cardinals accepts this. Thus they can publish their annual bans on celebrating Santa as a part of Christmas, - explaining the widely accepted opinion - that Santa was a headon figure, connected the pagan "Yule-tide" of Midle-Europe and Scandinavia.

Then it is quite a paradox that academians still may explain Santas historical origin by refereing to "Myrra, Bishop and Turkey".

Old, widespread deceptions may have strong, political roots. The Vatican regime have ruled for centuries - and the impact is still present, even in academic societies of reformed and evangelic countries...

NORM AND NATURE
When norm and nature contradicted each other the old Vatican often labeled nature as the "wrong", "the evil" or "the cause of it". Thus the "up" of Rome came down, "down" was redefined to be "up". Shaping mideval Europe was a "continous development - backwards".

Today we have to re-examine many of out major beliefs - as they may rest on false grounds. A lie doesnt became true by its mere conservation. 200 years or 10.000 years means little or no difference. If the culture keep their celebrations, festivals and holidays - the due songs, ryhmes and speeches were performed, evry year - steady going - for generation to generation. 200 or 2000 - without even a word changing, in either verse, song or play.

As a help when analyzing these and paralell text-sources it may be productive to use a line from the old rennesaince - telling that; "nature" is a premeter to "culture".

Which means we have to study the human conditions with the zest of understanding that the "Normal" not always is "natural". The zest of the rennesaince simpy reminds us that we better skip the norms and the normal, - whenever it is in contradiction with the natural.

ATLANTEAN TIME

Tikkanen, Matti & Juha Oksanen (2002). Late Weichselian and Holocene shore displacement history of the Baltic Sea in Finland. Fennia 180: 1-2, pp. 000-000. Helsinki. ISSN 0015-0010.
http://www.helsinki.fi/maantiede/geofi/fennia/demo/pages/oksanen.htm

About 62 percent of Finland's current surface area has been covered by the waters of the Baltic basin at some stage. The highest shorelines are located at a present altitude of about 220 metres above sea level in the north and 100 metres above sea level in the south-east.

Around 10,300 BP this ice lake discharged through a number of channels that opened up in central Sweden until it reached the ocean level, marking the beginning of the mildly saline Yoldia Sea stage (10,300-9500 BP). As the connecting channels rose above sea level, however, the Baltic Sea became confined once more, to form the Ancylus Lake (9500-8000 BP).

The ice sheet associated with the Weichselian glaciation, which followed the Eemian interglacial, reached its maximum extent about 18,000-20,000 BP. It was more than three kilometres thick in the area of Finland, so that it depressed the earth's crust to such a degree that a considerable part of the country's present area lay beneath the waters of the Baltic basin immediately after deglaciation. As the burden of the overlying ice was released the crust began to rise rapidly, however, so that it is estimated that the total rise up to the present time has been 600-700 metres on the northern coast of the Gulf of Bothnia, 400-500 metres in the middle part of Finland and in central Lapland, and around 300 metres on the coast of the Gulf of Finland and in northern Lapland (Mörner 1980). The majority of this rise nevertheless took place as the ice was melting, before the ground surface became exposed.

Then, around 11,200 BP, a (possibly subglacial) connection to the west opened up north of Mount Billingen in central Sweden. This remained functional for some 400 years, and allowed the water level in the Baltic to return to that of the outside ocean, presumably implying a decline of 5-10 metres

By the time the Younger Dryas cold phase came to an end, the Second Salpausselkä marginal formation was also in existence, and the sharp warming of the climate around 10,500 BP then caused the ice margin to retreat rapidly (Björck 1995). As a consequence, the Billingen 'gateway' opened up again around 10,300 BP and the waters of the Baltic Ice Lake once more began to discharge into the ocean through central Sweden (Fig. 2B). This dropped the water level in the Baltic basin by 25-28 metres within a few years, regaining the level of the outside ocean.

As the ice margin retreated further, the Närke Strait in the lowlands of central Sweden north of Billingen opened up about 10,000 BP, allowing saline water from the ocean to flow into the Baltic basin (Eronen 1990; Björck 1995)

Ocean levels rose at a rate of more than a metre per century around 10,000 BP, but the water level was still 30 metres below what it is today (Taipale & Saarnisto 1991: 237)

This marked the beginning of the Ancylus transgression, which lasted about 300 years (9500-9200 BP). During this time, the rising water level caused extensive areas of land to be inundated once more, especially on the south coast of the Baltic, where practically no land uplift took place. The water was rising at a rate of 5-10 centimetres a year, and the transgression as a whole is estimated to have been of the order of 15-25 metres (Eronen 1990; Björck 1995).

Thus the relation between the Scandinavian and the Basque language should be closer examined. All the more so since a Finnish professor of Egyptology - already in 1936 - concluded an intensive study by a book showing the clear relations between classical Finnish and "Old Egyptian", - an area Prof. Aspenhovi had made his speciale. Before he realized that his desk was covered with old Finnish dialect...

His works show dozens on dozens of related words, - such as house-roof-kitchen, etc, - or head-hand-fingers,toes,legs, etc. Given that his "old Egyptian" is linguistically correct the identical synonomity of words is far beyond accidental. So far it has been viewed as a "incident of syncronicity" by the Finnish collegues. Due to a rather defensive form of modesty they have left the investigation and closed the case.

DEPRIVATION OF HISTORY
Due to a need for quick solutions to difficult questions it is already long-time ago since the Finnish historians concluded that ancient Finnish Kings never did exist. Nor did any cultural connection - to the great civilsations - exist either.

According to the Catolic History of the 12th and 13th century Finland was a dark and murky place, where any good christian could face evil danger and savage people - ommitting sorcery and fraternaising with the devil. Himself...

This old "facts" was originating in the 12th century and re-written in the midst of the 15th century, as in Historica Suecia, 1555. Somehow the Finns still by into that realm. As modern Finnish academia have not found any "authorized documents" that states otherwise, they actually conclude that "there must be something" to the written material.

Some decades ago Finnish academia themmselves concluded that Finland was populated by "smal communities of primitive hunter-gather-culture with no overall, gouvernmental social organisation" - up to the very 12th century. When an English Bishop arrived - backed by some Swedish troopers - to get the province of Finnland into the "heird". Bringing civilisation and culture to the "Fennones".

A MISCONCEPTION
As long as this grave misconception are allowed significance we see old and young historians restrain to investigate historical records or source-material that says otherwise. Such as the Anglo-Saxon Chronichles, the Icelandic and the Norse Sagas. They all refer to Finland as an; "(old) Kingdom". And still the decency of the Finns make them to favour the historical version of their later rulers, the Catolics Swedes.

One quote;
"Ocean levels rose at a rate of more than a metre per century around 10,000 BP, but the water level was still 30 metres below what it is today (Taipale & Saarnisto 1991: 237)". (endquote)

The estimates applied in the Scandinavian models does not take into accounting that a general rise of the oceanlevels are of the size of 120-160 metres, occuring at the end of ice-time, - all over the globe. Which includes the North Atlantic and the White Sea.

Nor does the geodynamic models of the rises of Scandinavia apply. The land-rise were MUCH faster than 1 cm a year, which is the level measured throughout the 50-ties and 60-ties. Today that rise is down to 0,30 cm a year, - clearly stating that the tectonical rise - after ice-time - is just about to end, - at a tectonical balance in the crust of the northern hemisphere. In the most northern west-coast of Finland - where the ice-cap had its core (optimum of 5 km+). Here the rise is still 1 cm a year -which is more than 3 times the speed of any other area of Scandinavia today.

Thus statistic data as this may be misinforming. According to the geodynamical models of Sweden/Norway the land-rise of the first millenium after ice-time (9.-10.000 BP) is about 150 metres, giving a midle value of 150 cm a year. Instead of 1.

Then there are some quite recent facts - from international geology - that doesnt really apply to the models made to explain the sudden disappearance of the ice-sheet and the artic climate.

Thus we get the explanation that the enormous mass of a 3000 metres thick glacier - larger than Fenno-Scandia, upported by a North-Atlantic glacier from the present Nort Pole covering land and oceans as far as South Greenland and Iceland - should have "melted away".
Which takes time.

The stratigrafical measures says that it all melted away between 11-18.000 years ago, covering the time from 1) Maximum extent, to 2)Minimum extent, as todays reality.
Thus the "Baltic bassin" are supposed to have collected all the melting water - as ice-cold fresh-water, inside an isolated bassin. Consequently we find the next argument - the sudden rise of climate in Scandinavia specifically, - as the reservoir of cold water are bursting, as out of a dam - to connect with the oceans.

Simultaniously our geologists get to strengthen their logic explaination to the sudden slide of "the remaining, regional and local glaciers" - as well as the sudden rise in the regional temperatures.
As all the stored coldwater rushed OUT of the Baltic Ocean.

But, - the studies are far from complete. Even if a sharp rise in the Global Temperature may occur - it is difficult to explain the "sudden shifts" described (above, too) as a mere change in the temperature of the global atmosphere. Heating away a 5000-3000 metres thick ice-CAP, by sun and wind alone? Fully possible, - but not in 6000 years.

We still have some fragments of the large ice-cap existing, as the artic ice, Greenland and some more glaciers. But none of them have melted much (more) - in the LAST 9.000 years.

/Before recently, - as the gulf-stream managed to gnaw it way through the Arctic Ice-cap and reach the North Pole. As the ice-sheet is now broken - even during winter - the Gulfstream is repported to have started whirling around it, before levveling out - to both the Atlantic and the Pacific./

The work refferd above keeps the main-line of the "old" explanation to the swift changes of the last ice-time and its "de-glacification". Thus it also overlooks present archological data - proving human populations to have existed in;

1) Varanger/Alta - Norway, 9.900 BP.
2) Kolan Pennisula, east coast, 13-17.000 years ago.
3) Moscow, 17.000 years ago
4. White Sea and Kara Ocean; 36-40.000 BP
5. SW Finland, 11.000 - 280.000 years ago.

(The recent habitat have been used continously - during all known interglacials - from the last 300.000 years, - including the last one...)

The processes of glaciation and de-glaciation is still far from clear. Present researh still work on a model of it`s largest (definite maximum) extent, as well as the consequences of the end of glacial America and Eurasia. A model of the (still) rising of continents, rising parts of continents and local varations along tectonic meltpoints - are just in the making.

Disentangling the Effects of Demography and Selection in Human History

By
Jason E. Stajich and Matthew W. Hahn

Demographic events affect all genes in a genome, whereas natural selection has only local effects. Using publicly available data from 151 loci sequenced in both European-American and African-American populations, we attempt to distinguish the effects of demography and selection. To analyze large sets of population genetic data such as this one, we introduce "Perlymorphism," a Unix-based suite of analysis tools. Our analyses show that the demographic histories of human populations can account for a large proportion of effects on the level and frequency of variation across the genome. The African-American population shows both a higher level of nucleotide diversity and more negative values of Tajima's D statistic than does a European-American population. Using coalescent simulations, we show that the significantly negative values of the D statistic in African-Americans and the positive values in European-Americans are well explained by relatively simple models of population admixture and bottleneck, respectively. Working within these nonequilibrium frameworks, we are still able to show deviations from neutral expectations at a number of loci, including ABO and TRPV6. In addition, we show that the frequency spectrum of mutations—corrected for levels of polymorphism—is correlated with recombination rate only in European-Americans. These results are consistent with repeated selective sweeps in non-African populations, in agreement with recent reports using microsatellite data
http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/ejhg/journal/v13/n2/abs/5201321a.html&dynoptions=doi1106273964

The clear memory of our ancient origin got lost - effecting a fundamental change in the review of our past cultures. As a quick way out we find inadequate, simple exaggerations, creating super-real memories of "the good old". Simultaniously the giantic and extraordinary started to gain ground in the socio-political circles - to explain and legimitate major changes of laws, traditions, constitutions and legal rigths. Finally the constitution of Rome became more and more super-natural, affecting all societies in - and around the Roman Empire.

Thus the "religious realm" came to be a political entity - and finally an all-compassing guide-line to the entire Eurasia. As "Men of God" siezed power, the old (royal) rulers - and their entire staff - became "headon gods" or "demi-gods".

Today the phrase "God" is an immediate, automatic "hyper-linking" before the names of the old Sumerian, Egyptian, Greek or Norse panteons. The "religious realm" are explaining the "omnipotent" ideologies we have seen come and go - up until our time. Today we have dictators that even turn on their very origin, - expelling religion, - as such. To favour another, more updated "relegare", today cathegorized as Anarchism, Communism, Nazism, etc.

The massive and wide impact of our religious history sure explains the need and value of a spititual and social philosophy. But, - as we all know to well already - the "religious realm" also include a socio-political side, - that tend to command rather than observe; dictate, rather than govern; use, rather than relate. To get, rather than give.
The history behind our major religions all show that their main object is cultural "dominion" - controlling the major premises of our cultural philosophy, consequently determining political and economical issue. Today we see the religion still used "for higher purposes" - as it still may serve perfectly, as "explanation" to the evil necessary to commit, "to kill the evil".

When the spiritual, cultural and political order merge we have the "religious realm".
Thus we may understand the nature of our "ideological religions" (Defining rather than Explaining, - concluding by Commandments and Punishment, rather than Understanding and Excitement. Shaping the entire philosophy a political tool.)
Rele-gare still means "Mass-movement" as in "Shift" or "Change". In a neo-latin context that implies the One Thing Making (initiating) this Shift, - making the mass movement. Which may translate into both "Device" and "Purpose". Not to say "ways and means". Thus we get the inferior philosophy, - degrading to the story of ONE Book, as an "all-encompassing" devise, - rather than a purpose in itself - of subjective knowledge and objective debate.

As the spiritual and social words are given pathos the device will be working. Especially when backed by political authority and economical resources. But nothing beats the effectiveness of marching soldiers. Followed by a growing number of The Book - and the pathos of its clerics. If we go closer into it we may adress the cultural shift that actually happened - as the writing-culture becomes "existential" - in terms of "keeping knowledge and understanding". And not "only" mere information, data, statistics.
In the old monarchies they had clerics who took care of the books - for all the wisemen and the fools, alike. Thus we know the classic "Sinhue - The Egyptian", - by Mika Waltari - a historic novel describing Egypt from the period of the famous "Writer", - a sculpture from ancient Egypt, today on display at Brittish Museum, London. Today we may recognize a LONG and STABLE period in our Eurasian history. In the artic area we know that the first settlers started to spread some 10.000 years ago.

If we limit the view to the arctic area we see the first decisive traces of "military equipment or actions" occuring 2.500 years ago - in the very south-east of France, in the border-area. But suddenly - some 2.200 years ago - an enormous army appeared - marching straight through France and England. Conquering, distorting and destroying the classical "Celtic and English cultures". Genetically - since all women had to beget the blessings of their Roman Victors.

Thus we got the first latino lovers and blonde babes, exercising "romantic love" -already as kids play. Add the arising affection of unknown and forbidden passion -and we have screenplays of Romance, - from Shakespeare onwards. Here "Romantic Love" appears as a reminiscence from "the good old days", when flirt and sex was part of the conquistadors way to "enjoy their tributes". Instituting cross-cultural families and cross-racial mating - at the end of an etnic war. In Shakespeares play the "civil resistance" of the families involved focus on the issue of romance and etnicity. During the Catholic period all sexual contact "outside marriage" was defined as "Wild". To save the "Romantic problem" from becoming a social problem - as children of 15 started getting children, giving uncontrollable rises in populations.

Thus the Catholic Church implemented the taboo - "Sex is Evil." Solving the problem "once and for all". Old Roman-tic love became a water-hole of emotional experience, education and growth. And it became a chilling protest, signifying opposition towards the rigid earthly regime of the religious Roman Landlords.
During catholic time we could see stupidity at its worst - in the hands of a political regime. All sexual affection and passion became banned. In a short while we had clerics and politicans showing great affections for the ban, passionately dedicated to serve the Divine - by harder investigations, sanctions and prosecutions -of the libidly poisoned and “possessed”.

The revised ideology required that all our physical and emotional pleasures a "gift of God" and thus "belonged to God", ministered by his servants - and their clerical masters. Who may - or may not - further His blessings to "Anyone chosen to The Joys of Good" - and ALLOW someone to "enter the sacred matrimony".

After the reformation Shakespeare was allowed to shed light on "Anglo-Romantic Love"; using a reminiscence from "the good old days" to provoke debate, reflecting on the effects of "Roman time", - when flirt and sex was part of the conquistadors way to "enjoy their tributes". This "landslide" in the Gallic civilisations - sa in the Greek and Egyptian before - the emperial practice of etnic cleansing - created biological scars of a warfare and brute force, as the basis for the cross-racial. (Oposite the life-principle of the Atlanteans - who initiated the "agenda" of cross-cultural trade and genetic exchange.)
Thanks to centuries of "civil resistance" towards the Roman ethni-fication of the entire arctic culture - as genome, language, culture survived. In our own land, - where our true roots still exists. In all senses of the word. Even undercover.
----
If you are able to see the poetic reality of the rustic Meadowlands you may understand that "God" - never existed as an entity. If we use the term "Our Creator" - we may understand that our human origin dwell in the evolution of this Globe. Channelling through the emergence of life - in forms and ways we start to recognize. At the end of a 450 year cultural and scientific re-constitution.
Today we know enough to see the wonders and the magic of nature as it is. Without the religious terms still connected to the "social sciences" where "religion" is placed in a faculty by itself. And thereby refered to as a "realm" of "reality".

To understand the "Greek, Roman or Norse Gods" you have to see "God" as the old norse word "Gode". A "Gode" is a title given within the old Norse aristocracies - as a constitutional function and position of public service. The King himself as "Head-God"; "Hovgode". Thus all in his closest family - each being part of the constitution, may also be serving as "Gode".

Thus we find Jupiter and his family, - reflecting the same Panteon as the Greek culture, who had the exact same structure. The Hindi and Aino myths shows the same circle of "Head-Gods", - which correlates very well with the Finnish Kalevala and the Norse Edda. Which are rimarily telling that both Japanese, Indians, Finns and Scandinavians have a cultural deeply rooted relation, - in terms of CULTURAL history. If we may change the word "God" - with "Ancestors" - including all their expressed wisdom - we may explain the "incredible creation story" - without the "Hyper-energetic entity of miracelous Super-Nature", who knows all, sees all, knows all, actually had created it all - from eternity to rule forever. (Puha...)

---
One verse from the Norse Hryminnesmal gives one line explaining the beginning of the "first age". The saga of the Boxstrom-faimily gives an extensive, logical and very scientific description of time origin, - as it explains the background, the location, the circumstance and the consequence of how the first man and woman came into existence.

For the first time ever do we see a myth that progressively describes historical processes, - while it explain the logic of the different phases and effects of the process. Thus I may close by a question - what happened to the Bible if we forget "God" and exchange "him" with "Adam"? And what happens if we demote Jupiter and Zeus from the "magical realm" and give them their historical presence - as well as their breath back?! The Asers have their own myth of origin, calling it

The Saga of The Ring, - dating their origin back before Ice-time. Explaining its occurrence, as well as its effects, - such as the arctic climate, the entire arctic nature, as well as the arctic human being, AND its culture.

Well, present geology states that the ice-time was here already 35 million years ago. 29 million years MORE than the public estimate less than 10 years back. 20 years back Ice-time was assumed to had been "coming and going" for 600.000 years, - some colleges pushing the time-line to 1,8 million years. At that time, in 1985, the Bock-Saga was revealed - saying that ice-time lasted for 50 million years, before ending 10.000 years ago.

Only one line of Norse myth deals about our very first origin - as human beings. But we have the first five verses of the great epic Voluspaa - describing the origin of the North-Atlantic population - as a branch from the Aser who survived 50 million years of ice-time, as they escaped to "Noatun" (ref. Voluspaa). Rising solid, arctic sons and daughters on his "New Yard", Noa, "The Newer" was able to send 10 of his sons to all corners of the world - greeting from the King of The North Pole, successor of the first speaking monkeys, Frei and Freia, who named themselves "As-r".

Managing to survive on Noa-tun, the Aser could reach the tropics and explain the destiny of Alt-land-is, - as the envoys managed to reach the 10 tropical Kingdoms. The Aser was known as the very first of all royal families - not only to the Norse Kings but also to all tropical Royals.
The existence and impact of the Aser are still respected in all major mythologies. Still they all refer their ethnic and cultural origin to the "Top of the Globe", i.e. the North Pole Area. Professor W. Warren, President of Boston University, explained this in detail already 107 years ago.
www.healthresearchbooks.com

The growing consensus within geological circles are stating that the process of disappearance have been VERY fast. Excluding "melting" - and thereby "climate-change" as a main-factor to explain the end of the Eurasian/American ice-time. Mass-movement have MUCH more to do with, - correlating the present discoveries within the ocean, - presenting wide profs of a sudden rise in the Ocean Level, "some 8.700-11.000 years" ago.
Hundreds of islands in the North Atlantic Seas were populated after ice-time. From arctic people - from the west-coast Europe. The only reasonable logic from all known facts about this populations tell of a arctic sea-culture evolving out of the Scandinavian area. Thus North-Way become the trade mark of the land, where the large ocean-current ("Gulf-stream") reach the 62-65 degree North. In this area experienced sailor could turn west - and head into the larger realm of the Atlantic. With good wind, a straight ship - and "16 men behind oars" they could cross the Gulf-drift (3 knots here) and reach Iceland in less than 48 hours...
Then we have the atlantic island-jumping; populating The Orkney islands, The Feroe Islands and South-WEST Greenland. Before returning back home - to Norway?! Maybe, - but only in the initial phase. Turning around and sailing straight back towards Feroe islands is another matter thou. Then You may wait for months, to get SOME wind, - blowing SOUTH and east. Which (today) normally appears in the period January-March. When the worst winter is deep frozen and completly dark...
Thus the way further west, - following the southwards stream became apparent. Finding the "sources" of the eastward stream, - reaching the British Isles and Europe. Which they really DID. We have proves of a stranded Scandinavian "Viking-ship" found in Haiti (1974), carbon-dated at just about the year 1000 (AD). If we pull Indian, Norse and Mediterranean history and legend together - we may understand that the archaeological evidences - such as the pre-columbian mining in Michigan - is ONE of the many memories still existing - of the culture that Plato called Atlantis.
Its 2005 and about time to take our very own eyes, ears and senses seriously. Even if we are educated. A large amount of pre-conceived knowledge have shown to contain a large amount of "errors" to. As we discover that some "errors" of the history-book are based on fraud or deception we may feel strange about some of these things. Thus we need brush our small greys and look again - with fresh eyes. All real research build on that.

Hundreds of islands in the North Atlantic Seas were populated after ice-time. From arctic people - from the west-coast Europe.
The only reasonable logic from all known facts about this populations tell of a arctic sea-culture evolving out of the Scandinavian area. Thus the North-Way become the trade mark of the land, where the large ocean-current ("Gulf-stream") reach the 70 degree North.
In this area experienced sailor could turn west - and head into the larger realm of the Atlantic. With good wind, a straight ship - and "16 men behind oars" they could cross the Gulf-drift (3 knots here) and reach Iceland in less than 48 hours...
Then we have the Atlantic island-jumping; populating The Orkney islands, The Feroe Islands and South-WEST Greenland. Before returning back home - to Norway?!
Turning around and sailing straight back towards Feroe islands is another matter thou. Then You may wait for months, to get SOME wind, - blowing SOUTH and east. Which (today) normally appears in the period January-March. When the worst winter is deep forzen and completely dark...
Thus the way further west, - following the southwards stream became apparent. Finding the "sources" of the eastward stream, - reaching the British Isles and Europe. Which they really DID. We have proves of a stranded Scandinavian "Viking-ship" found in Haiti (1974), carbon-dated at just about the year 1000 (AD). Though - 30 years ago this found was not accepted as "significant" - since it did not fit the present "opinion" of the authoritative historians.

The findings of New Foundland 1962 was still not accepted. First after the Colombus jubilee (1992) did the "Norse discoverer Leif Eriksson" become "comme-il-faut" within broader academic circles. In 1995 Heyerdahl started a survey on the earliest sources of information about the Norse connections to Greenland-America. Based on the works of Kare Prydz it is clear that the Norse sailors of the old North was covering all the North Atlantic, - from a capitol city in the Trondheim area. The sailing-route went from Mid-Norway, via Greenland to Chesapeake Bay, or further, - from where they could hit the Ocean current, - all the way to Ireland.
Thus Dublin and Isle of Man was so important to the old Norwegian Sea-Kingdom. It completed the entire circle, being the "magical" ROUND-TRIP of the North Atlantic.
In 1999 Heyerdahl made another important precision. The collected source-material does NOT say that Leif Eriksson discovered Amerika. They says that he LIVED there, - as part of a widespread culture that reached all the way down to Virginia. Governing from Greenland - where his father, - the royal Erik ruled, - from the royal seat of "Brattalid". It is even reported that father Erik was most unhappy that his son Leif had brought the first "black-men" (priests) with him - back from the annual meeting at the Royal Palace in Trondheim, Norway.
The meeting in question happened 995 or 996, just as the first Roman collaborator amongst the Norwegian nobility had made a coup-de-etat, - starting a "Christianization" of all Norwegian cities. Thus the regional chiefs, Leiv included, had to bring priests with them home, build them churches and get the population to arrive there - giving 10 % of their income for their "salvation".
Backed by Vatican annals it is obvious that Leiv Eriksson did not discover America. But he was the one taking the first German-Roman clerics there, - as "missionaries" to the local populations.
The updates on the political changes of Northern Europe - during the period 800-1100 (AD), - shows that there already existed sailing-routes to America, that was PART of the old Norwgian kingdom. The sagas refer to TWO kings, one ruling the North Sea - from the Bay of Oslo,- while the other ruled the North Atlantic. Thus they are consequently referred - in different sources - as "Sea-kings". Their population, culture and "regime" was spread "over an enormous area - over seas". Their possessions were not land, but overseas areas.
A third centre of sea-fare and trade was build by Gota River, where today lays Goten-bourough. Today Gotenborough is part of Sweden - but still it is the capitol city of Western Gotaland. Eastern Gotaland streches to Got-land itself. The old law-books of this two "lands" still exist. Connected to this mideval laws of the Goter, there exist a small "Myth of Origin", stating that "We all come from Gotland (the island)". The expression "We all" is referring to all Gotic branches,- from where also the Norwegian Sea-Kings - and their produce; the Norwegians, - are descending.

Thus we may understand that even old Swedish law-books are pointing to a common origin of the Scandinavian peoples - placed on Gotland. Law-books from western Norway also shows that the Norwegian (Gotic) Kingline, governed Greenland, as well as Markland, Ildland, Helluland, Vineland and other districts of today US east-coast.
Later the climatic "minimum" - peaking 1350-55 - weakened the entire population of Northern Europe. In Scandinavia MORE than 75% of the population died - and the connections with Greenland difficult. A Papal letter of 1352 tell that the Norse populations in Greenland and America had died out - or "fallen from the rigth belief and moved west - to the savage". By 1372 gun-ships extinguished the last, defenceless Norsemen on Greenland. The "savages" to the west - Norse villages - was ransacked and the people taken slaves, - starting a trade that made Portuguese geographers name the area "Labradores". Though the old Norse Sea-Kingdom was broken down, - and the parts "eaten" by the new rulers; the Portuguese and Spanish sailors of The Holy Cross. Thus the entire history of the "island empire" of the North Atlantic became erased - to make way for the New Lords to discover America, - and instignate the "New Time" also there, - in "The New World".
In other words - the unknown part of Eur-American connections and history - is still bigger than the known parts. But we DO know that practical issues created a curiousity for the land in the west - and its southern shores. First time already some 7-9000 years ago. We just do not know exactly when, yet. But at last the American archaeologists have started to accept the fact that they are Scientists, - and not social behaviourists, intellectual opinionists or contra-productive hypo-critics. Denying and supressing "alternative opinions" are one thing, overlooking facts another. Making a fool out of yourself in a different thing. Making a fool out of us all quite another. Especially when their bread is paid by all of us common taxpayers.

The rest of us may play around as we like, - as many posts on this site shows. But also the ones genuinly interested in the legends of Atlantis, - as myth, legend and reality - may have to re-consider the framework of their investigations, since the historical Atlantean culture appeared - populating all Islands - from Greenland to Tenerife - after ice-time. The remains of that peculiar sea-culture still exists - in the boat and ship-culture we find in some rural areas of the North-Atlantean islands. But the conscious connections to the pre-Atlantean culture have vanished, - except from the puzzling - obviously FRAGMENTED - legends that still exist.
If we pull Indian, Norse and Mediterranean legends together we may understand that the archaeological evidences - such as the pre-Columbian mining in Michigan - is ONE of many remnants of the same culture that Plato called Atlantis.

What we do know is that one and the same population existed in the Susiluola Cave, already 120.000 ago - until some 11.000 years ago.

There are already a number of missing-links to the theories put foward by Mr. Roper. His time-lines are on the rigth side of sense and nonsense, but still far from precise. And his language-chart doesn`t hold water. Pluss, the following news are also quite embarassing - compared with Mr. Ropers time-line on the population of America.
http://www.archaeology.org/online/news/topper.html

Destruction of the pagan temples
In the late 4th century (AD), persecution of pagans by Christians had reached new levels of intensity. Temples and statues were destroyed throughout the Roman empire, pagan rituals forbidden under punishment of death, and libraries closed. In 391, Emperor Theodosius ordered the destruction of all pagan temples, and the bishop of Alexandria, Theophilus, complied with this request. Socrates Scholasticus provides the following account of the destruction of the temples in Alexandria:

5th century scroll which illustrates the destruction of the Serapeum by Theophilus (source: Christopher Haas: Alexandria in late antiquity, Baltimore 1997)

"Demolition of the Idolatrous Temples at Alexandria, and the Consequent Conflict between the Pagans and Christians."

A TIME-LINE

To understand our ethnic and cultural past we may find the "arctic incidence" - called ICE-TIME, as a somewhat clear shed of a time-line. The start of this time-line, a documented date for the "origin of man" is still far from scientifically answered.

But, - the consensus of a "first origin", a genesis, is nothing but a pre-requisite; to be able to understand the general process of the creation of all species.

Our entire background of nature, with our pre-human forefathers in its midst - did not drop in from the blue. At one point they necessarily had to AP-PEAR. As a pair. Of opposite sex.
A logic approach would include that we address this moment of creation as the result of a seminal process...

Most people I discuss with agree that we DID occur - in a creational moment -as a product of an ever-so-long evolution. Most people agree that we still DO NOT have real and valid clues to how far back the human being possibly goes.

Unfortunately there are scientists presenting their carnovarian and bavianian discoveries in around a Rift Valley as "the oldest possible trace" - rather than the "oldest known, so far". Consequently we stop at 1, 6 million as the "oldest substance found" claiming to be The Genuine "proto-human". Now what’s the chance of that, given that we haven’t looked through more than 0.1 % of the mass of bones, hidden underground in Africa alone? And then we have to add ALL discoveries from ALL the other continents, too. No?

Until further clarity arises we have more than work to do; to get clear on the time-lines, chronologies, objects of culture and movements of cultures - leading up to the present situation, - in terms of language, culture and ethnicity.

ZERO-POINT

That’s why I want to re-focus on the end of the large Ice-Time, the Arctic O-point, - because it:

1. Gives us a fair chance to build a quite complete picture of the last 10.000 years of Eurasian existence.

2. Assess and evaluate Mediterranean and South Asian interactions with the Arctic populations.

3. Relate discoveries of Arctic emigrations to the sub-arctic nature south of the Arctic hemisphere, - especially in mountain areas where a sub-arctic/sub-tropic climate gave good conditions for settlements in uninhabited areas.

“TRIBES OF ATLANTIS”

For this reason I see the ongoing discussion on Rivens thread; Tribes of Atlantis, - as very useful. The collective science of culture/language/ethnicity should be enough to clear this picture - and the ongoing research on the newfound texts from Af-ghan-i-stan are already setting new paratives, - in terms of the relations between Greek, Persian, Semitic and Aramaic languages.

Our "arctic angle" already made its day, - when I discovered that words like "man" and "hand" were present, with clear letters, - in a newly found Bactrian text. Written in an ancient, long gone language labelled "Old Persian", more than 3.000 years old.

Even the more of a surprise that even the combined word; "handa-man", existed. Written in a phonetic alphabet – and pronounced as in English; “hand-a-man”. Today’s experts of the ancient Bactrian language translate “handaman” to "limb". The same two-words, - meaning “hand-of-man” (our most important of “limbs”) is found in both Scandinavian, German and English.

This and other distinctive words have clearly showed a connection from the ancient Persians and an old, arctic culture. From the Mesolithic, Neolithic and Bronze age discoveries made in the Northern hemisphere the present updates from Chinese, Russian and European Archaeology all agree that the arctic area was populated by branches of the same culture, - in terms of ethnicity and cultural progressions. Spreading after ice-time, - all along the Northern Hemisphere, - soon populating the continent from Ocean to Ocean.

Given that the Russians, Kassaks and Turkmen still are labelled “Caucasians” we may presume that their closest ancestors also belonged to this classification. 9.000 years ago they started a spread, - from the Baltic - towards Scandinavia, Europe and Asia (Larger Russia). Already 8.000 years ago there were two parallel, still distinctive cultures existing in Eurasia, - at the same parallel as we still find the Major Linguistic Border that still divides Europe, all along the 1st parallel (30 degrees) east of Greenwich. Note that the division starts north of the Botnic Bay, divides The Aland Isles before reaching the river Wizla in Poland that defined the clear line southwards to Hungary and Transylvania.
That became the Fenno-Ugrians, who populated all areas north of the Black Sea, all around the Caspian Sea - and all the way to the Pacific Ocean and the Chinese wall. Norse myths tell that the "In the beginning The Aser created the Vaner, to populate the east. Thus that land is called Vanaheim”. The Finns still call Russia “Vene-je”, while the Baltics are called “Ved-di”. In Norse language the Northern Finns were called “K-Vens”, while Vaner/Vanir as a popular name is still present in Caucasian populations. The As/Aes/Aesir likewise.

To make things short we may recall the well-known "Komsa-culture", - that reached various places of Scandinavia, especially in the high North, already 9.900 years ago. In the last decades archaeologists have unearthed traces from the Kolan Peninsula and the White Sea showing even older habitats, - aging back to 17.000 BP. In the years 1995-97 a Russian-Norwegian expedition uncovered 40.000 years old habitats east of the White Sea, at the Pechora-basin. The clear parallels of buildings, weapons and other items showed clear parallels to the high-artic “Komsa-culture” of Mesolithic Kola, Finland and Norway. The chronological time-line conclusively shows that the first Russians descend from a very ancient tribe, - that already 40.000 years ago were incredibly well adapted to the high Arctic climate and nature.

7.000 BP the complementary cultures had spread all along Eurasia, establishing lines of communication from Ocean to Ocean, - and beyond. To the west we see a stringent parallel to the “Komsa-culture” that develops distinctive differences in style and forms, creating a "complementary tradition". Thus we can identify a western culture, - covering today’s Germany, France, England and Scandinavia.

This "western culture" spread as different cultural “branches”, - but they were all based on the old root of the "Nordic language", - which today is spoken only in Scandinavia. Thus it is important to point to the fact that the same language once was shared by all sons and daughters of the “Scots”, “Picts”, “Herulis”, “Goths”, “Celts”, “Saxon” and other tribes known from Bronze Age Europe. Until the Latin invasion threw the old family-threes, societies and cultures around.

Two years ago we heard of a 6000 years old city found in Dagestan, bearing traces of burned clay-tablets with clear, straigth symbols similar to our versal letters. Recent works on the 3000 years old Bactrian language (found in scrolls from Afghanistan) have revealed a straight, linguistical import from the arctic language. The links between Bactrian, Aryan and Arameic are obvious. The Bactrian also containing expressions of clear, arctic origin.

OCCAMS ERAZOR

Over the last 3500 years we see that warfare spreads to all the great Kingdoms and Cultures of the ancient Asia. Finally it reaches also the old kingdoms of the arctic culture. 1.000 years ago the Greek-Roman culture finally overtook the last of the Arctic kingdoms. As Charlemagne and his successors laid the entire Europe under Rome, the Imperial Church of Istanbul took care of Macedonia, Bulgaria, Balkan, Transylvania, Moldova, Slovakia , Polen, Belo-Rus, Lituania and Russia, - east to the Chinese Wall.

In 987 the Grand Duke of Kiev – on behalf of the entire Russia - subjugated to The Church of Istanbul. Since then the language started to change, - creating a combination of clerical Greek and native Fenno-Ugrian. The result being the "broadband vocabulary" we find in the present "Grylic" - as it is spoken in Eastern Europe and Russia. Thus we have a mixture of Greek and Fenno-Ugrian that became “Slavonic”.

By the Norman defeat in England, 1066, the last stand against a religious rule lost – and the old arctic culture completely cease to profile its existence – as a historical, civil and cultural actor. In the coming 500 years the Eastern and Western Church where the only cultural institutions left. Consequently the old, pagan mythology, language and culture was subjugated, altered and changed. In some cases it was even erased, - like the ancient English, German, Polish, Russian and Turk languages. None of them are still spoken. A similar eradication had fallen on the Bactrians some 2.000 years BP, as it happened to the Norse 1000 BP, and to the Indians some 500 B.P. Thus “Occams Erazor” had reached around the globe,- relflecting the CeZarian dream; Ruling the World.

VISIBLE TRACES

Though, we still find old Fenno-speaking tribes in remote areas of northern and eastern Russia. Even at the high Arctic Ocean, we still see Fenno-Russians finding ways and means to keep a satisfactory supply of food and other necessities. Keeping their old life-style, traditions AND the original mother-tongue in tact. In other areas offside the axis Istanbul-Kiev-Moscow we see that the Fenno-Ugrian language managed to survive – even in good shape, - such as in Hungary and Estonia as well as its "homeland" Finland.

A look at the map also explains how the Finnish Bay and the Baltic Ocean becomes a meeting-point of travels east and west. Already our ancient survivors of ice-time, - that appeared in the White ocean, - had to arrive from somewhere. Thus the discovery of the 40-70.000 years old population in SW Finland (1995) was imminent. All the more as the Finnsh/Swedish border is still the same today as it was during Mesolithic, Neolithic, bronze-age and Viking-time. Thus the local population in the Botnic Bay can pride themselves with their ancient border between east and west, the river Tornea ( “Tower-river”) - being “9000 years – and never stamped by soldier-boots”.

The original root-language of the western culture is also preserved by the coastal population of the Finnish Archipelago, along all the coastline of Finland. Thus we see that the bi-lingual coast of Finland have an ancient position as a meeting-point/melting-point between the eastern and western continents. Recent discoveries of genetic, linguistic and etymythologic nature are underlining the central position of the Baltic area, as a key to understand the parallel cultures of the eastern, respectively western Eurasia.

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The following article from Nature 2001 gives a rock solid base-line for assessing the whereabouts of the “Komsa-culture”, the immediate ancestors to the present Fenno-Scandians – not to say all Caucasians.

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The ice man cameth early
Early mammoth hunters braved the Arctic.

Nature; September 4th, 2001
HELEN PEARSON

Our hardy ancestors survived north of the Arctic Circle as far back as the last ice age, unearthed tools now reveal. The mammoth hunter’s braved sub-zero temperatures on desolate tundra at least 20,000 years earlier than was thought, the remains suggest, although whether the people were Neanderthals or modern humans is a mystery.

The artefacts, dug up in an Arctic riverbed, show that humans once lived as far north as Siberia and Alaska, say archaeologist John Svendsen, of the University of Bergen in Norway, and his team1. The stone tools, horse and reindeer bones and a mammoth tusk with hand-made markings, were found at Mamontovaya Kurya in European Russia.
Radiocarbon dating puts the finds between 35,000 and 40,000 years old. Previously, humans were thought to have colonized this northern region in the last stages of the ice age only some 13,000 years ago.

The 40,000-year date "marks a turning point in the history of human evolution in Europe," says Svendsen's team. Around that time, roaming Neanderthals are thought to have given way to anatomically modern humans migrating northwards out of Africa and into Europe. The new haul does not reveal the identity of the Arctic dwellers to be either Neanderthal or modern.
Either way the result is exciting, says archaeologist John Gowlett of the University of Liverpool, UK. Either Neanderthals travelled further north than was thought, or modern humans moved and adjusted to northern extremes very quickly - within a few thousand years of leaving hotter climes.

Temperatures seem to have fluctuated markedly at that time, pushing populations north or south. Early modern humans may have followed herds of mammoths, wild horses or reindeer northwards during a warmer period, speculates Gowlett. During colder spells, freezing steppes extended as far south as Greece. "Humans had a hold on the north, if only for a short time," he says.

Highs and lows
To survive at these latitudes, humans have to be well adapted, explains anthropologist Chris Stringer of the Natural History Museum in London. Temperatures fall to -40°C and there is 24-hour darkness for part of the year.
"You've got to have clothing, housing and fire," he says. Eating meat and fat would have been important, as there are few plants. Cold-dwelling populations such as the Inuits also have physiological differences that make them more tolerant to the cold.

Whereas modern humans are known for their ability to survive in extreme conditions, Neanderthals were thought to lack such skills. If the remains are Neanderthal, then "they were not a load of numbskulls," says Gowlett.

Our view of the historic landscape in which the hunters lived is also changing. The animal bones add to mounting evidence that this region of the Arctic, although cold, was not ice-bound 35,000 years ago. Instead, it probably consisted of open, grassy steppes.

Further surfing; www.historiska.se/collections/treasures