I'd like everyone to weigh in on this, but I'd especially like to hear from some of our long time members, like Riven, Atlante, Maria and/or Georgeos, along with those who are especially versed in Greek mythology, like Helios and Chronos. I haven't really got the chance to study it in great detail myself, I was so eager to show it to everyone else:
http://pandorasfiles.com/research/atlantis/chapter5.htm

- The Lost Ending of Plato's Dialogue, Critias

"… You all know that Epsilon of Boeta was defeated , by us that come
from Epsilon of Sirius and Andromeda. In the eastern side of the
Mediterranean, the citizens of Boeta had every freedom, though their
allies, the citizens of Ophis, were covering them continuously. We let
them control the earthly affairs, but you saw what happened with
Antilles.
I decided to let our sons to act at will. But even if they achieve
their goal, they will disobey my commands. Therefore they will forget
everything until the days of Crion.
Then they will suffer, until the age of Aquarius. As for the people of
Ophis, they will be defeated by our sons. But they will use all means to
suppress our sons during the period of their intellectual death. The
intellectual death will last throughout the age of Pisces and they will
rule the world. Our sons and daughters will be under their commands. All
the gates will be deactivated and gaia will not have the appropriate
energy.
Throughout the Pisces our sons will make terrible mistakes. For
that they will be turned into slaves. The voices of Minos and Hercules
will not be heard. Because they deserve to be punished. I will send your
spirits in every Hellenic womb (delfi) as for in every era to have our
Ichor guide them. The punishment seems harsh, but it has to be done this
way as I am so sad seeing all the virtue and honor getting lost from the
people that we have created.
I never approved the mix with the people of Dracon, Boeta and
Heta. But I will not punish them for these mistakes, but for one and
only reason. When they will disobey my commands, as also yours, during
the fight against the island, they will never think that the sea will
punish them obeying the commands of Poseidon to my earthly hand, there
in our first base. The terrain will be destroyed by waters, and out of
the river of fire the body of destruction will come and the motherland
of our children will be destroyed.
The punishment will be realized throughout Leo and midway to
Cancer. But the strongest of all will be during the Pisces. Then I will
send the best from Olympus of Sirion, to activate and pull our children
back in the road ethos. The teaching of people has to be perfect. You
are going to lead them and make them again teachers of the world. They
will become the leaders and their leadership will last for ever" .
"Zeus", said Hefaistus, "do not part male from female, as I said
to DEMETRA (?) to humanize the people of Europe that came from Heta. How
can you think that I can cause damage? We could though destroy evil. And
the only evil source that exists in the whole world is them, the
descendants of Ophis, Boeta and Orion. They have fought our divine sons,
trying to exterminate them on earth".
"You are right Zeus-father" said Dionysus. "But when we punish our own
existence, then the evil is advancing"
"You Dionysus, will succeed me for two pillars (200 years maybe?). In
your name, the worst action will take place. Mainly against our
descendants. But all the nations will know that the people of Ohis,
Orion and Boeta that united, will be revealed for their evil acts and
the nations will reproach them. Our children though, will be praised by
the few that faced the enlightment , until the age of Aquarius that
everyone will follow them.
As for the new lords of Atlantis, they will suffer what the other two
have. Our sons will wait for them in the isolated sea and the intruders
will reach the Acran-Polin (another word for Acropolis, meaning the city
at the edge) the base of Athena. Our sons though will win the battle and
chaise them back to the island of evil. And they will invade the island.
There they will destroy them, but they will not leave. And this is not
wise, since they would have to show mercy, as only the gods have that
right. Only the gods have the right to dissolve evil. The descendants of
evil though are ignorants and they will forget that their motherworlds:
Ophis, Boeta, Orion are under our command as they will always be. They
do not know that the moon that we have brought, will not return to their
subterranean brothers to help them escape. They do not understand that
their invasion on Gaia was a tragic mistake.
Our sons want to destroy the island, though the wise thing to do
is to punish the evil in people. I know that along with the island's
destruction the vanity and hate of the people of Orion will disappear
The should of our children will visit Gaia and they will prosper as
normal beings, but without remembering the past. And only with the power
of their own will the power o Leo, will destroy evil and the island will
vanish.
Socrates: Wisely chose the Father of Gods, Zeus, but tell Critias, what
happened to our ancestors and the Atlanteans?
Critias: The war started at the west side of Crete. The Atlanteans
murdered the highpriest of Atlantis that was of Antillian origin. The
king of Atlanteans ordered to cut the priests arms and to through him in
the sea. Next morning the Atlanteans attacked the Hellenic fleet, while
our allies abandoned our ancestors to their destiny.
The two fleets came to fight outside of Peiraeus and though it seemed
that our fleet was doomed, help came from the Mediterranean Atlas
(The Mediterranean Atlas is Malta, if you read it backwards you will
read ATLA-M, the latest name of Malta until the 5th century was Melitaia
(honey island)=Malta).
The naval battle continued with outmost strength from both sides.
But eventually Athenians won. Then they chased the Atlanteans. But the
two etheric chariots that seemed like shining shields, instructed our
ancestors not to invade the island. Unfortunately they disobeyed, as
they used their own chariots.
Then two of the divine chariots left Gaia and settled on mars fields,
from where they would provide help only when needed. The third chariot
remained on Gaia and followed the attack. The gods again warned the
Athenians not to act with these weapons. Unfortunately they did not
listen. They used their secrets that are not known to the unholy and
destroyed the island, causing the death though of many of our soldiers
that happened to be on or near the island.
What is though fundamental for all of us to know, is that there will be
one day again that humans will live harmoniously and with ethos. And
this will be attributed to our ancestors".

Credit to:

A. Keramidas
Thessaloniki
Greece

Something the young Homer enthusiast needs to brush up on. IT just rings more modern verse than how Homer would have said it.

It is a good story though. I really enjoyed the battle starting off the coast of Crete and how Malta came to the rescue.

I would give him a C+ for style and a B+ for creativity.

This also brings to mind that Malta should belong to Atlantis in prehistory since they ruled upto Italy and Egypt which questions if they allied with the Hellenes.

Crete also is mysterious and appears more like a neutral zone. I am still puzzled as to who's side they were on because I'm not sure if the Egyptians taught the Creteans how to build ships, or the other way around.

Crete being a central island in the med and a good outlook post for Atlantis also makes me wonder if they were Atlanteans originally who migrated to upper Egypt and Sais or if the Egyptians migrated to Crete.

Given the advancement of Malta then Egypt then Crete. It seems to go in that order chronologicaly. Yet, we also see stonehenge arriving around 3,000 bC on the west coast and the Sumerians on the East coast around 4500 bC and the Babylonians/Akkadian advanced forms.

The precedence, that none can hide, going to these forms of Advanced cultures.

Then by 2000 bC, everyone else comes into the picture. Knossos,Mycenaeans,Cimmerians,Phoenicians,Anatolians,Carthage,Cyrene,Lixus,Etruscans,as even more advanced cultures.

The term advanced in this sense details grand Architecture and Sewage systems, irrigational canals,baths,toilets,metallurgy,cultivation,plantation,politics,laws,etc.

Which really makes you wonder how in the world did Egypt become so advanced at 3000 bC?

Simple, Thoth, the Atlantean.

* line 117:
About 12,000 B.C. a brilliant tribe of Andites migrated to Crete. This was the only island settled so early by such a superior group, and it was almost two thousand years before the descendants of these mariners spread to the neighboring isles. This group were the narrow-headed, smaller-statured Andites who had intermarried with the Vanite division of the northern Nodites. They were all under six feet in height and had been literally driven off the mainland by their larger and inferior fellows. These emigrants to Crete were highly skilled in textiles, metals, pottery, plumbing, and the use of stone for building material. They engaged in writing and carried on as herders and agriculturists.
* line 118:
Almost two thousand years after the settlement of Crete a group of the tall descendants of Adamson made their way over the northern islands to Greece, coming almost directly from their highland home north of Mesopotamia. These progenitors of the Greeks were led westward by Sato, a direct descendant of Adamson and Ratta.
* line 122:
It was during this age in Crete that the mother cult of the descendants of Cain attained its greatest vogue. This cult glorified Eve in the worship of the "great mother." Images of Eve were everywhere. Thousands of public shrines were erected throughout Crete and Asia Minor. And this mother cult persisted on down to the times of Christ, becoming later incorporated in the early Christian religion under the guise of the glorification and worship of Mary the earth mother of Jesus.
* line 131:
When Egypt followed Mesopotamia in cultural decline, many of the more able and advanced families fled to Crete, thus greatly augmenting this already advanced civilization. And when the arrival of inferior groups from Egypt later threatened the civilization of Crete, the more cultured families moved on west to Greece.
* line 144:
The Danubians became mother worshipers as the result of the work of the missionaries from Crete. These tribes later amalgamated with groups of Andonite sailors who came by boats from the coast of Asia Minor, and who were also mother worshipers. Much of central Europe was thus early settled by these mixed types of the broad-headed white races which practiced mother worship and the religious rite of cremating the dead, for it was the custom of the mother cultists to burn their dead in stone huts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Riven,
you also mentioned,
"Which really makes you wonder how in the world did Egypt become so advanced at 3000 bC?

Simple, Thoth, the Atlantean."

and regarding:
Stonehedge:

The Date of 11,600 Before Present

* Plato affirms that the demise of Atlantis took place "9,000 years before the times of Solon". Now, Solon visited Egypt at about 600 BC, which adds to a total of about 11,600 BP (Before Present). Now, this is precisely the date of the cataclysmic ending of the Pleistocene Ice Age, as given by the geologic record. So, we are led to conclude that Plato's date is correct, and that the Greek philosopher indeed knew what he was talking about.

* Strabo, the Greek geographer and historian, tells us that 2,600 years before his time, certain navigants crossed beyond the Pillars of Hercules, and dealt with the Tartessians. Now, these Tartessians — who are often identified with the Atlanteans — had, he affirms, written records of their history that amounted to 7,000 years before their own time. Again, this adds to a date of about 11,600 BP, precisely as preconized by Plato for the Atlantean cataclysm, for Strabo flourished in the times of Christ.

* Arnobius, a Christian bishop of the fourth century AD, told in one of his sermons concerning the catastrophes that have previously destroyed human civilization, that "ten thousand years ago, a vast number of men burst forth from the island which is called Atlantis of Neptune, as Plato tells us, and utterly ruined and blotted out countless nations." Again, the date given by Arnobius turns out to be precisely the one of 11,600 BC. Though Arnobius' relation seems to be based on that of Plato, he had access to sources now lost that apparently confirmed Plato's disclosure in an independent way.

* Manetho, the Egyptian historian, places the start of the dynasty of the "Spirits of the Dead" 5,813 years before Menes, the first king of unified Egypt. Now, Menes flourished between 3,100 and 3,800 BC or perhaps, even earlier, as some specialists claim. Again, this gives a date between 11,000 and 11,600 BC, in close agreement with the one given by Plato. It is quite probable that the "Spirits of the Dead" of Manetho were indeed the survivors of the Atlantean cataclysm, the same dead ancestors that the Romans called Lemures or Lares.

* The Hindu traditions on the Yugas, as well as the similar ones of the Persians, hold that the eras of mankind last about 12,000 years each. On the other hand, these and other traditions maintain that we now enter, in the year 2,000, the final millennium of the present era, which started just after the demise of Atlantis. So, once again, we are led to the conclusion that the Atlantean cataclysm took place between 11,000 and 12,000 years ago.

* The Codex Troano of the Mayas, translated by Augustus le Plongeon, the celebrated Mayanist, recounts the tragedy of Lemurian Atlantis, which sunk away in a terrible cataclysm. It tells that millions of people died in the cataclysm, and that the event took place "8,060 years before the writing of this book." Supposing that the codex was written at about 1,500 BC, the start of the pre-classic Era, when the Mayan (Olmec) civilization sprung, we get a date for the cataclysm of about 11,600 BP. This is in perfect agreement with the date given by Plato. As is known, the Mayas originally came to America from an overseas paradise called Aztlan which sunk away underseas. Aztlan in visibly no other thing than Plato's Atlantis. Except that Aztlan was located beyond the Pacific, rather than the Atlantic Ocean.

* The Ramayana — the book that tells the destruction of Lanka by Rama and Hanumant — affirms that this war took place some 10,000 years before its own times. Now, the experts agree that the Ramayana was written at about 300 BC by Valmiki. Thus, the destruction of Lanka — which is no other thing than the one of Atlantis — took place at about 12,000 BP or so, in fair agreement with the date given by Plato.

* Hindu traditions affirm that the first sangham (poetic academy) lasted for 4,400 years. The second one for 3,700 years. And the third and last one, which ended at about the start of the Christian era, lasted for 1,850 years. This yields at total of 11,900 BP for the start of the sanghams which, tradition holds, began shortly after the Flood. Considering that the Flood corresponds to the cataclysm that destroyed Atlantis, this Hindu tradition on the poetic academics confirms the date of Plato with excellent accuracy.

* The end of the Pleistocene Ice Age — the date of whose closely coincides with the one of 11,600 BP given by Plato for Atlantis' demise — also marks the rise of agriculture, of city-building and of the Neolithic both in the Old and the New Worlds. According to a universal tradition, civilization was brought just about everywhere by white, blond, blue-eyed, titanic giants. These giants are no other than the Atlanteans fleeing their destroyed Paradise and moving into their new homelands in order to make a fresh start. As if to confirm this worldwide tradition, it is at this date that we start to find fossil skeletons of Cro-Magnoid men, so often equated with the Atlanteans. And these are found precisely the sites connected with the rise of the Neolithic and of Civilization

* Arthur Posnansky — the German-Bolivian archaeologist who long studied Tiahuanaco, the site of origin of the Incan civilization of Peru and Bolivia — concluded that this region of the Andes was formerly a seaport which suffered an uplift of about 3,000 meters. This cataclysm happened at about 11 or 12 thousand years ago, precisely the epoch of the Atlantean demise.

* Bruce Heezen, the famous oceanographer of the Lamont Geological Observatory, showed that sea-level underwent a rise of about 100 to 150 meters worldwide at about 11,600 BP. This rise resulted from the meltwaters of the Ice Age glaciers that covered a substantial portion of the continents in the temperate regions of the world and which were up to a few kilometers in thickness. Heezen also pointed out that this rise of sea-level was sufficient to drown most low-lying coastal regions of the planet. In particular, the region that now forms the South China Sea averages under 60 meters or so in depth. Thus, this region — precisely the one which we preconize to have been the site of Atlantis — got submerged by the rising waters, just as affirmed by Plato.

* Turning to Egyptian traditions, the source on which Plato bases his legend of Atlantis. The famous zodiac of Dendera — which was copied from far older versions whose origins are lost in the night of times — indicates that the constellation Leo lay at the vernal point in the epoch of its start. Now, the era of Leo centers at about 11,720 BC, in close agreement with the date given by Plato for the end of Atlantis and the start of the present era. What event but the cataclysmic end of the Pleistocene Ice Age and the consequent demise of Atlantis could better serve for the new start of times marked in that famous zodiac?

* Makrisi, a famous Arab historian of Egypt, affirms that "fire issued from the sign of Leo to destroy the world." This conflagration apparently confirms the above connection between the star of Dendera's zodiac and the Atlantean cataclysm disclosed by Plato. The Arabs conquered Egypt, and inherited its magnificent culture and traditions, and it is quite likely that Makrisi was basing himself on them.

"Of unknown antiquity, the Idol of Cadiz, as it was known to the Arabs, may have been of Phoenician origin. It was said that Cadiz was founded by them in 1100 BC. But what of the ancient Iberians who preceded them? Despite the hatred of orthodox Moslems for all idols - the Koran forbade representation of the human figure - the huge statue had survived nearly five hundred years of Moslem control. The Romans and Goths had left it untouched, even though it was believed to be of solid glod, and the Vikings had tended to avoid the city fearful of the power of the colossal image. Then, in 1145 it was destroyed by Abd-al-Mumin. It was discovered the idol was of bronze, and not gold.

".. it was built upon a series of columns one hundred and eighty feet high, the platform had been surmounted by a gigantic figure of a man done in bronze. The right arm of the figure stretched towards the Straits of Gibraltar, and held a key. The entire statue was plated with gold and could be seen at a great distance by all ships approaching Cadiz from the open Atlantic."

These quotes came from the Louis L'Amour novel "The Walking Drum" which is fictional, but L'Amour was fanatical in his devotion towards historical research and would not have invented such a detail out of thin air.
He also had quite an extensive library of rare books.

I have verified that Abd-al-Mumin was real and definitely not a fan of idols of any sort, see following on:

Abd al-Mumin , d. 1163, founder of the empire of the Almohads. He was the favorite of the Almohad religious reformer Ibn Tumart and became (1130) his successor. Even before his rise to leadership, he had attacked the Almoravids. After long campaigns in Morocco and NW Algeria, he was able to destroy (1147) the Almoravid empire. In 1158 he invaded the Muslim states of Tunisia and NE Algeria, which had been weakened from attacks by Arab nomads and Sicilian Normans. By 1160 his rule reached from the Atlantic to Tripoli. The last years of his life were spent fighting the Christians of Spain.

Am trying to translate, but my Spanish is terminally rusty - will put it up later when I'm not embarassed by my translation.

Also it could have been a statue of "Briareo" who was supposedly Cronos jailer, the only support given to that being that after they were called The Straits of Hercules and The Straits of Cronos they were also apparently called The Straits of Briareo.

"geographer Pomponio Mela himself wrote on his home city: “Calpe…further ahead, there is an inlet and there is Carteya, former Tartessos (as some think), where the Phoenician brought from Africa live."

I had thought based on Schulten, Kuhne and others that Tartessos was somewhere around the Guadalquivir - but Pomponio seems to be of the impression that Carteya, or Melkartheia as it was originally called was the location of the site. Is that possible?

What is starting to bother me with the Tartessian issue is how the Phoenicians and/or Carthaginians could have obliterated so thoroughly "Tarshish" - unless they did have help from some natural disaster.

Then again, sacking cities was a popular past time back then, perhaps a Carthaginian Achilles??

quote:

---

New book identifies Ireland as Atlantis
04/08/2004 - 10:21:27
A new book investigating the myth of Atlantis says that the mythical land was actually the island of Ireland.
The claim is made by geologist Ulf Erlingsson in his book 'Atlantis from a Geographer’s Perspective: Mapping the Fairy Land', who is to visit Ireland on August 11 to 13.
In his book Erlingsson bases his evidence on Plato's desription of Atlantis which, according to Erlinsson, matches Ireland perfectly. Statistically, the scientist claims, the probability is over 99.98% that Plato was describing Ireland.
Erlingsson says: "Just like Atlantis, Ireland is 300 miles long, 200 miles wide, and widest over the middle. They both feature a central plain that is open to the sea, but fringed by mountains. No other island on earth even comes close to this description."
“What has led most students astray is that Atlantis sank in the sea”, says Dr Erlingsson.
“It is an ‘Atlantic myth’ all right – but a myth from, not about, Atlantis”.
"The island that sank was Dogger Bank. It was struck by a disastrous flood-wave around 6,100 BC, and now rests deep under the waves of the North Sea."
In the book, Dr Erlingsson shows how the Atlantic Empire probably can be associated with the megalithic monuments of Europe and Northern Africa. Their geographic distribution matches the extent of the Atlantic Empire as Plato described it.
The Atlantean capital can be connected with Tara, the legendary seat of the high king of Ireland.
The temples of Poseidon and the ancestors match up well with the so-called passage tombs of Newgrange and Knowth, in the Boyne valley.
They are the oldest roofed buildings anywhere in the world.
Ulf Erlingsson has a Ph.D. in Physical Geography from Uppsala University.
His specialty is geological processes, under-water research, and natural disasters—.

---

According to Maria, Jacques Colina-Girard's expedition has also been delayed until October.

Who knows what is going on with the discoveries in Spain and Cuba..?

The relevance of the mentioned object may be compared to the significance of Schliemanns discoveries - proving not only the existence of A Troy, but also showing the reality of their art, richness and aestethics.

According to "accepted opinions" there have been no such thing as an ancient Kingdom to ever rule in Finland. To possibly be discovering otherwise is obviously to much of a strain, - constituting a risk that the rulers of offical history are not willing to take. Consequently the application was turned down - as of 17.10.2003 - on the grounds that the Norwegian professor of Nordic Archaeology "had no experience in digging in Finland". (sic!)
Even if the whole excavation was limited to a 2x3 metres rectangel, just about 4 metres down. In a Finnish sandbank, surrounded by an old ruin...

According to a message from the NBA already 1990 they are to investigate the object in question themselves - "within the scientific programme of the NBA". This year the scientific programme is ending a three year process, resulting in a renovation of the castle-ruins. So if the NBA are to keep their own words they will have to excavate this object before concluding their long planned programme of restoration - programmed to take place this summer.

Still the experiences from the last 14 years have clearly shown reluctantcy to take part in any broader discussion about the Saga and its references to archeological "treasures". Any initiative to answer and clearify this questions have been met with silence. Only when the Thor Heyerdahl Research Center formed an application did we get a clear-cut response. In the form of a refusal - of course...

We seem to have an outrigth obstruction of free research going on. (May be some larger state institutions are still "russified" - that is still affected by the stalinistic culture that recently used to rule Finlands large neighbour to the east.)

To know more about the whereabouts of the NBA it may be possible to mail the recently appointed, new state archaeologist (paula.purhonen@nba.fi) about the progress of their "scientific programme". It can`t hurt asking.

http://www.knowledge.co.uk/sis/resource.htm

1. Neo-catastrophism and Mass Extinctions

* Phil Burn's Catatrophism Web site, and extensive catastrophism bibliography.
* Chicxulub Impact Crater Provides Clues to Earth's History by Virgil L. Sharpton, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston, Texas
* Dinosaur Volcano-Greenhouse Extinction Theory by Dewey M. McLean
* Dinosaurs, Comets, and Asteroid -- Resources
* Disaster from space
* Extinction pages
* The Impact Catastrophe That Ended the Mesozoic Era Electronic PictureBook
* The K-T Event
* Mass Extinctions and Dinosaur Extinctions
* T - Rex, and the Death Star
* When the sky fell on our heads: Identification and interpretation of impact products in the sedimentary record
* Possible Climatic Perturbations Produced by Impacting Asteroids and Comets by Kring D. A.* Melosh H. J. Hunten D. M.
* Reading The "Fine Print" of Climate History in Greenland's Ice
* Meteor stream key to earth's climate by Dr Victor Clube
* A cosmic trail with destruction in its wake by Nick Nuttall
* Dinosaurs and Mass Extinctions Videos and CDs from R.E.D. Productions
* Evidence for Astronomical Aspects of Mankind's Past and Recent Climate by Timo Niroma. Includes: (1) Evidence for a Major Impact Event in the Late Third Millennium BC (2) Evidence for a Major Impact Event in the Late Fourth Millennium BC (3) The Myth History of the Events and Their Cultural Effects.

2. Evolution and the Origins of Life

* The Fall and Rise of Catastrophism a Professorial Lecture given at Nottingham Trent University on 25 April 1996 by Trevor Palmer. Features: Uniformitarians and Catastrophists, The Rise and Apparent Triumph of Uniformitarianism, The Disregarded Cosmic Dimension, and Catastrophism Re-Born.
* The Center for Mars Exploration
* Cosmic Ancestry Life comes from space because life comes from life.
* Did Earth's Life Originate on Mars? by P. Lutus
* Exobiology and the Origin of Life
* NASA's Exobiology Life through space and time
* Exobiology of Comets and Meteorites: An Annotated Bibliography

3. The Dangers of Near Earth Objects (NEOs), and Spaceguard

* Asteroid and Comet Impact Hazards
* Asteroids, Comets, Death, and Extinction
* Impact!
* Lesson Plan on Possible Collisions on Earth due to Asteroids and Comets
* The Probability of Collisions with Earth
* Impact Cratering on Earth
* Air Force Maui Optical Station
* Asteroid & Comet Defense
* Avoiding Armageddon by redirecting space debris by Nick Nuttall
* BAO Schmidt CCD Asteroid Program (SCAP)
* Bigelow Sky Survey
* Comet Busters By Peter Tyson
* A comet or asteroid impact with the earth - How real is the threat? by Bob Hawkes
* Comets and Asteroids and Future Cosmological Catastrophes
* Defense System Aiming at Asteroids
* Searchers hunt asteroids that could rock world
* Klet' Observatory
* Meteor Defense by Bob Kobres
* Near-Earth Asteroid Tracking Home Page
* The NEO Page
* Planetary Defense Watch Advisory Page
* Near-Earth Objects Survey
* The Spaceguard Foundation home page
* UK NEO Project Spaceguard UK
* Spacewatch Project
* Spaceguard Canada
* Small Bodies in the Solar System
* Asteroids
* Meteors, Meteorites and Impacts
* Meteorite and Impacts Advisory Committee to the Canadian Space Agency.
* Skipping Meteoroid
* What would be the environmental effects if the earth collided with a large comet?
* Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9
* The Planetary Society, who are involved in research on cometary and asteroidal impacts and NEO deflection programmes.
* Apollo Objects, Atlantis And Other Tales: A Catastrophical Scenario For Discontinuities In Human History, by E. Spedicato
Recent findings about catastrophic collisions of the Earth with comets and Apollo-like objects are reviewed, with special attention to climatological effects. We discuss the hypothesis that the last glaciation was started by a collision over a continent and was terminated by a collision over an ocean.

4. Catastrophism and Velikovsky

* Kronia Communications The Mythscape Video Series, and many articles on Velikovsky.
* Velikovsky - Cosmos & Chronos Home Page, Research, publications and presentations.
* Society for Historical Research, an association of scholars and laypeople, who seek to reconstruct history based on the idea that within recorded human history extraterrestrial agents caused global catastrophes.
* Ted Holden's Catastrophism Web site
"An attempt to provide a flavor and sampling of the new branch of science which has evolved from the works of scholars who have been following thelogical trail of historical reconstruction discovered by Immanuel Velikovsky in the 1940's and 1950's."
* The Immanuel Velikovsky Page
* Cosmos & Chronos - A Non-Profit Interdisciplinary Research Organization
* Catastrophism and Immanuel Velikovsky links
* On The Possibility Of Very Rapid Shifts Of The Poles, by F. Barbiero
Evidence exists that the poles have changed position during the past ages. This possibility, however, so far has been disregarded on the basis that such a phenomenon is thought to be physically impossible. The following article shows the possibility of very rapid shifts of the poles due to the impact of astronomical objects as small as a half-kilometer diameter asteroid.
* The Velikovsky Archive, unofficial archive of Velikovsky's unpublished material.
* An Antidote to Velikovskian Delusions. A critical look at Velikovsky and the Saturnists from Leroy Ellenberger
* talk.origins FAQ (Frequently asked questions), a critical look at:
* Catastrophism
* Velikovsky

5. Challenging views of Catastrophism

* When the Sky Fell: In search of Atlantis by Rand & Rose Flem-Ath
* The Tom Van Flandern page challenges astronomical theories
* Meta Research on the Origin and Nature of Celestial Bodies
* New Evidence of Artificiality at Cydonia on Mars by Tom Van Flandern
* Catastrophism, The Emerging Science of Origins
* Neptune, Velikovsky and the Name of the Game Scientific American, "Wonders" by Owen Gingerich
* The Creation Concept plus Origins and Creation related Links
* The Flood & Joshua's Long Day - Was This How God Caused Them?
* Ignatius Donnelly Home Page, by Dick Meehan
* Hanns Hoerbiger's Cosmic Ice Theory
* Shock Dynamics: A new paradigm for geology of the Earth by John Michael Fischer
* Bob Kobres' Comets, Culture, & Catastrophism page.
* Janet Miller's New Catastrophism page.
* The Lambert Dolphin Library, with more information on Dr Barry Setterfield works, including: Barry Setterfield's Old Testament Chronology; * A Brief Earth History Summary of the Monograph Creation and Catastrophe; * Fossils and Catastrophies; * Faster than the Speed of Light?
* Numerical Solution Of The Planetary Alignement Equations, by E. Spedicato and Z. Huang. Starting from Talbott, several mythologists have argued that during the initial phase of human history the planetary system of the Sun was radically different than now, the planets being aligned during their revolution around the Sun, with Saturn in a dominating position (the polar model).
* Our Rock Who Art in Heaven, by Jacqueline Brook. The book that investigates mythology and uncovers a common theme and celestial origin.
* Man as old as Coal, Ed Conrad's battle to show that human bones have been found in coal
* The Quantavolution and Catastrophism Series, Alfred de Grazia's series of books:

* The Burning of Troy
* Chaos and Creation
* The Divine Succession
* God's Fire
* Cosmic Heretics
* Solaria Binaria
* Home Schizo I & II

* The Lately Tortured Earth
* The Velikovsky Affair
* The Disasterour Love Affair of Moon and Mars
* Ka (Hugh Crosthwaite)
* A Fire Not Blown (Hugh Crosthwaite)
* Recollections of a Fallen Sky: Velikovsky and Cultural Amnesia (Earl Milton)

Ê

6. Electricity In Astronomy

* The Plasma Universe, at Los Alamos National Laboratory by Anthony L. Peratt
* Wal Thornhill's Electric Universe, An astounding concordance between modern plasma physics and the ancient testimony of battling planets.
* The Electric Cosmos by Don Scott, including pages on Electric Plasma, Missing Matter, Our Sun, Solar Neutrinos, and Ancient History.
* The Electric Universe by Dipl. Phys. Dr. Engineer L‡szl— KšrtvŽlyessy
* Lightning in astronomy By Eric Crew
* Gravity, Magnetism & Light charge polarization inside electrons & atomic nuclei, by Ralph Sansbury
* DragonScience The Science of Myths - The Myths of Science

* Online works by Alfred de Grazia (Check tables of contents for relevant chapters):
* God's Fire (1983)
* Chaos and Creation (1981)
* The Burning of Troy (1984)
* Solaria Binaria, with Earl Milton(1984)

* Various articles:
* By C.E.R Bruce:
* A New Approach in Astrophysics and Cosmogony by C. E. R. Bruce (1944)
* Cosmic Thunderstorms, by C.E.R Bruce, Journal of the Franklin Institute, Vol. 268, No. 6, December, 1959
* The Extension of Atmospheric to Space Electricity in Problems of Atmospheric and Space Electricity, by Bruce, C. E. R., in: S. C. Coroniti, ed., pp. 577-86 (Elsevier Pub. Co., Amsterdam, London, New York, 1965).
* Successful Predictions of the Electrical Discharge Theory of Cosmic Atmospheric Phenomena and Universal Evolution, E.R.A. Report 5275, The Electrical Research Association, 1968
* By Ralph Juergens:
* On Cosmic Electricity, by Martin Krustal, Ralph Juergens, C. E. R. Bruce, Eric W. Crew. PensŽe IVR 5 1973 (Volume 3, No. 3)
* Galactic Space Charge and Stellar Energy by Ralph E. Juergens. SIS Review Vol 1. No. 4 (1976)
* Electric Discharge as the Source of Solar Radiant Energy by Ralph Juergens. Kronos Vol 8. No 1. (1982)
* Electric Discharge as the Source of Solar Radiant Energy (2) by Ralph Juergens. Kronos Vol 8. No 2. (1983)
* By Eric Crew:
* Solar Electrical Discharges by Crew, E. W. Nature 241: 39 (1973)
* Electricity in Astronomy by Eric Crew. SIS Review Vol 1. No. 1 (1976)
* Electricity in Astronomy (2) by Eric Crew. SIS Review Vol 1. No. 2 (1976)
* Electricity in Astronomy (3) by Eric Crew. SIS Review Vol 1. No. 3 (1976)
* Electricity in Astronomy (4) by Eric Crew. SIS Review Vol 2. No. 1 (1976)
* By V. A. Bailey:
* Net Electric Charges on Stars, Galaxies and 'Neutral' Elementary Particles by Bailey, V. A., Journal and Proceedings of the Royal Society of New South Wales 94:7786. (1960)
* Existence of Net Electric Charges on Stars by Bailey, V. A.: Nature 1 86: 508 (1960)
* The Sun's Electrical Charge by Bailey, V. A. (1964). Nature 201: 1202-1203.
* Cosmos without Gravitation by Velikovsky, Immanuel. Scripta Academica Hierosolymitana (1946)
* Electricity in Space by AlfvŽn, H., article in The New Astronomy, (1955)
* Mechanics Bears Witness by Irving Michelson. PensŽe IVR 7 1973 (Volume 3, No. 5)
* The Not So Stable Sun by Earl R. Miton. Konros Vol 5. No 1. (1979)
* Electric Stars in a Gravity-Less Electrified Cosmos by Earl R. Miton. SIS Review Vol 5 No. 1 (1980)
* "Limited Fusion" and "Anode-Stars" by Martin Sieff. SIS Workshop Vol 4 No. 3 (1981)
* The Solar System and Electro-Gravitic Theory by Charles Ginenthal. Aeon Vol 1 No. 3 (1988)
* The Electro-Gravitic Theory of Celestial Motion & Cosmology by Charles Ginenthal, A Special Issue of The Velikovskian Vol IV:3.

7. Tunguska 1908, Brazil 1930, Chicago 1871

* International Workshop Tunguska96
* "Tunguska '96", Bologna, Italy, July 15-17, 1996 Meeting Report from A. Harris
* 1908 - Explosion in Siberia
* "Another Tunguska?" (Brazil 1930) from High Strangeness Reports 1996
* Searching for the cause the great fire of Chicago, October 8, 1871.
* The Great Chicago Fire and the Web of Memory
* Tunguska: The Cosmic Mystery of the Century
* Tunguska, 1908 by Jerry Jenkins
* Michael Cremo and Forbidden Archeology Etc.

8. Archaeoastronomy and archaeology

* The Center for Archaeoastronomy, The study of the astronomical practices, celestial lore, mythologies, religions and world-views of all ancient cultures.
* ArchNet
* Stones of Wonder, Prehistoric Observatories in Scotland
* Martin Gray's Sacred Sites, specializing in the study of sacred sites and pilgrimage traditions around the world.
* Michael Cremo and Forbidden Archeology Etc.
* The Dawn of Astronomy, A Study of the Temple-Worship and Mythology of the Ancient Egyptians, by J. Norman Lockyer. First published 1894.
* Earth Matrix: Science in Ancient Artwork and Science Today.
* Victor Reijs' Archaeoastronomy links, including online azimuth calculator, and books.

9. Mythology and Ancient History

* Mythopedia Rens van der Sluijs' grand synthesis and a new science of myth
* Myth's and Legends, dozens of links by Christopher B. Siren.
* talk.origins Frequently asked Questions Home Page.
* The Mysterious Origins of Man, "Controversial Evidence That Could Rewrite Man's History".
* Akkadian Language Home Page an introduction.
* Assyria on-line!
* Ancient World Web, Dozens of hypertext links including those to: Ancient Near Eastern Astronomy, Antiquity and Astronomy of the Vedic Culture, Bullfinch's Mythology, Digital Papyrology, Dragons in Early China, Early Myth and the Goddess in Ancient China, Guide to the History of Astrology (points you to books about astrology in various cultures), Korean Myths and Legends, Library of the Age of Antiquity, Mayan Astronomy, Mythology in Western Art, Native American Creation Myths, Rock Art, Velikovsky Critiqued - (refutes Velikovsky's claims by outlining the scientific inaccuracies of Velikovsky's writings), World Art Treasures.
* Mayan Heiroglyphic Syllabary
* Religious and Sacred Texts
* ArchNet
* Duke Papyrus Archive, electronic access to texts about and images of 1,373 papyri from ancient Egypt.
* Lisa (Aaronson) Liel's Ancient History Pages Essays and papers on ancient biblical history, and a link to the CHRONO e-mail list.
* Chicago Oriental Institute WWW Home Page
* Myth's and Legends, dozens of links by Christopher B. Siren.
* The WWW Virtual Library: Astronomy and Astrophysics
* Noncanonical Homepage, Full texts of: 1.Old Testament Apocrypha. 2. Old Testament Pseudepigrapha. 3.Apocryphal Acts 4.Apocryphal Apocalypse. 5.Apocryphal Gospels. 6.Apostolic Fathers. 7. Apostolic Fathers. 8. Other writings.
* Egyptology Home Page
A Starting points for material of interest to Egyptologists, material and resources mainly located here includes: Coffin Texts online word index, Prosopographia Aegypti, Egyptology in Germany, Special collections in the Heidelberg University Library, The University of Chicago Oriental Institute home page, Archaeology home page, Papyrology home page, Oxford Classics page, Coptic home page
* Perseus Project Home Page
An Evolving Digital Library on Ancient Greece including: How to see Greek with Microsoft Windows, Greek texts with morphological links to Liddell-Scott Lexicon! (Example: Aeschylus' Agammemnon). Art and Archaeology: Greek vases, coins, sculpture, and sites in the Perseus database. Includes links to word search of database, indices, images and examples. Primary Texts: Greek texts and translations, English word searches of the texts, and resources for textual studies.
* Jan Sammer's INTERPRES Site
Examines the Foundations of Knowledge, Journeys through Worlds and Ages, Rediscovers a Lost Science, and, Peeks into the Cradle of Christianity
* ISIS, The Institute for the Study of Interdisciplinary Sciences, publishing the Journal of the Ancient Chronology Forum, and ISIS Occasional Publications, researching into the great cultures of the ancient Mediterranean and Near East including Egypt and Nubia; Canaan, Philistia and Israel; Phoenicia and Syria; Assyria, Babylonia, Elam and Persia; Anatolia; Cyprus, Crete and Greece; and Italy, Sicily and Sardinia.
* The Egyptologist's Electronic Forum
* David Rohl's A Test of Time, Evidence for redating Egyptian and biblical ancient history. See also David's new Website, and the New Chronology Discussion List.
* Centuries of Darkness, Peter James' site on revised chronology
* Nebuchadnezzar & The Egyptian Exile, a revision of egyptian dynastic history by Jim Reilly
* Sun and Saturn by Morris Jastrow Jr. The Sun and Saturn are two very different celestial objects. Yet the Babylonians appeared to 'confuse' the two... or was it just the translators of the Babylonian texts?

10. Journals

* Aeon, The Journal of Myth and Science.
* The Anomalist magazine.
* Chronology and Catastrophism Review Interdisciplinary sciences including catastrophism and Velikovsky.
* The Journal of Scientific Exploration, a professional forum for the presentation, scrutiny and criticism of scientific research on topics outside the established disciplines of science.
* Kronos, The Journal of Interdisciplinary Synthesis, the 1970's series, republished and available on CD-Rom.
* PensŽe: Immanuel Velikovsky Reconsidered, the 1970's series, republished and available on diskette.
* PensŽe: Immanuel Velikovsky Reconsidered, the 1970's series, republished and available on CD-Rom.
* The Velikovskian,
* ZeitensprŸnge, the German magazine for interdisciplinary studies, covering themes such as catastrophism, prehistoric and ancient history.
* Configurations, The official publication of the Society for Literature and Science. The only journal devoted to the study of discourse pertaining to the theories and practices of science, technology, and medicine. The journal explores the relations of literature and the arts to the sciences and technology.

11. Books and papers on Catastrophism and Neo-Catastrophism

* Rogue Asteroids and Doomsday Comets by Duncan Steel (New York et al: John Wiley and Sons 1995). Review by Clark R. Chapman in Meteoritics & Planet. Sci. 31, 313-314, 1996
* Craters, Cosmos, and Chronicles by Herbert R. Shaw (Stanford University Press, 1995)
* Rain of Iron and Ice by John S. Lewis (Reading: Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, 1996)
* Mining The Sky by John S. Lewis (Reading: Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, 1996)
* Fire on Earth by John and Mary Gribbin (New York: St. Martin's Press, 1996)
* Impact! The Threat of Comets and Asteroids by Gerrit Verschuur (Oxford University Press, 1996)
* Doomsday Asteroid by Donald W. Cox and James H. Chestek (Amherst, New York: Prometheus Books, 1996)
* Cosmic Dancers on History's Stage? by Mike Davis The Permanent Revolution in the Earth Sciences. In: New Left Review (May-June 1996)
* Is This The End by Timothy Ferris, in: The New Yorker, 27 January 1997
* Reviews of Recent Popular Books on the Impact Hazard
* New Insights to Antiquity by Richard Petersen.
* Dance of the Planets, by Angiras. Knowledge, mythology and modern science, revealing a 3000 year sequence of chaotic interactions between Venus, Mars and Earth within proto-historical times.

12. Publishers, Societies and organisations

* The Sourcebook Project, P. O. Box 107, Glen Arm, MD 21057. USA.
Science Frontiers -- William Corliss' bimonthly collection of digests of scientific anomalies in the current literature. Hundreds of short abstracts in many areas including: Archaeology, Astronomy, Biology, Geology, Geophysics, Psychology, Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics and Esoterica.
* Society for Interdisciplinary Studies
Publisher of Chronology and Catastrophism Review, Chronology and Catastrophism Workshop, and in association with The Nottingham Trent University, Catastrophism, Neocatastrophism and Evolution by Trevor Palmer. Society members have access to the SIS Book Service.
* Pacific Meridian Publishing, 13540 39th Ave. N. E., Seattle, WA 98125. USA. Tel/fax: +1 206 365 1640.
Books on planetary catastrophism including: The Biblical Flood & Ice Epoch; The Long Day of Joshua; Catastrophism and the Old Testament; The Recent Organization of the Solar System; The Ark of Noah; Symposium on Creation VI; Environment of Violence; Expanding Geospheres; Science & Christianity, a Partnership; Escape from Einsten; and two videos, Cataclysm from Space 2800 BC; The Discovery of Noah's Ark.
* Govardhan Hill Publishing, publisher of Forbidden Archeology, The Hidden History of the Human Race. A book by Michael A. Cremo and Richard L. Thompson.
* Polar Publishing, four books in the Environment of Violence series.
* The Millennium Group, is organized to create an unbiased outlet for scientific research and critical thinking. Covering Planetary Theory, Cometary Theory, Solar Theory, Galactic Theory and Cosmology.
* Kronos Press, Publisher of books on catastrophism, ancient history, cosmology, myth and symbolism.

13. Miscellaneous

* The Planet Mars in Ancient Myth and Religion, by Ev Cochrane.
* When the Earth Nearly Died, Compelling Evidence of A Catastrophic World Change 9,500 BC, by Derek S Allan and J Bernard Delair.
* Fingerprints of the Gods Graham Hancock's best-seller on ancient civilisations. You can also check out Graham's Hancock's official Website can be found here.
* Robert Bauval's Office Website, author of The Orion Mystery (with Adrian Gilbert), and Keeper of Genesis (with Graham Hancock)
* David Rohl's A Test of Time, Evidence for redating Egyptian and biblical ancient history. See also David's new Website.
* The Sunken Kingdom, The Atlantis Mystery Solved. A book by Peter James.
* Books by Jerry L. Ziegler, including YHWH, and, Indra Girt by Maruts.
* Red Earth, White Lies, by Vine Deloria Jr, A compendium of Indian oral traditions and folklore that challenges the accepted scientific theories of evolution, and radiocarbon dating techniques.
* The Mayan Prophecies by Adrian Gilbert and Maurice Cotterell.
* The Orion Mystery Unlocking the Secrets of the Pyramids, by Robert Bauval and Adrian Gilbert.
* Essays in speculative science, Fred Jueneman's books: The Limits of Uncertaintly and Raptures of the Deep;
* Questioning Gravity, Details of a book by Arthur Wilkinson.
* Alan Alford's Home Page, author of the books:
Gods of the New Millennium (1996) covering a vast array of ancient mysteries, and explores the controversial possibility that the gods of ancient mythology were a flesh-and-blood race (recommended reading for fans of Zecharia Sitchin).
The Phoenix Solution (1998) focuses on ancient Egypt. Alford's comprehensive decoding of the Pyramid Texts reveals that the Egyptian religion was an exploded planet cult, with extensive similarities to the modern astronomical theory of Dr Tom Van Flandern.
* Alternative Science Website, An alternative view of scientific discovery by controversial writer, broadcaster and journalist Richard Milton.
* The Schemata of the Elements: reveals old and new patterns within the behavior of the elements and their atoms.
* Catastrophe/Apocalypse, A course given every fall at Bard College in New York by Prof. William Mullen.

14. Internet Usenet newsgroups
Note that your browser must be configure correctly to access these newsgroups

* alt.catastrophism
* alt.archaeology
* sci.archaeology
* alt.sci.planetary
* alt.mythology
* sci.astro
* talk.origins

A link to the German book itself is: http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3833413913/httpwwwatlans-21/302-4141779-2972046

quote:

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Atlantis in the Black Sea
 
INTRODUCTION
 
We are presenting the theory, that Atlantis was a late stone age (Neolithic or Chalcolithic) settlement in today’s northwest of the Black Sea. It was drowned 5510 BC when the ocean flooded the freshwater lake that existed before the Black Sea.
 
We published this theory in our book that was issued June 2004. This excerpt is meant to give an overview, however, it cannot cover all parts in detail.
 
 
GEOLOGY
 
In 1997 American Marine-Geologists Walter Pitman and William Ryan published the scientific evidence, that today’s Black Sea used to be a freshwater-lake. Its shoreline then was approximately 350 feet below today’s level of the global ocean. By dating fresh- and saltwater shells with the C14 method they found, that the salinity of the lake changed rapidly from fresh to salty around 5500 BC. They call this Noah’s Flood and we are convinced that this interpretation is true.
 
The reason for this change is the increase of the level of the global ocean since the end of the last ice age, which peaked 20.000 BC. Then the level was 350 feet lower than today. Even 5500 BC when the flood happened, the level was still 45 feet lower. Due to the steady increase at some point in time the former land connection between Europe and Asia at today’s Bosporus (at the city of Istanbul) had to break and release the salt water of the Mediterranen/Marmara Sea into the Black Sea basin with its lower shoreline.
 
In 2001 American explorer Robert Ballard searched the former shoreline off the coast of Turkey and indeed found evidence of human settlements.
 
From 1999 to 2003 the theory presented by Pitman/Ryan was challenged severely by a group of international scientists. However, in 2004 Bulgarian Marine-Geologists Petko Dimitrov and Dimitar Dimitrov published the result of their studies under the Black Sea Research Program “Noah”: They are convinced that the flood, a “geocatastrophic event” actually happened and that the dates collected by Pitman/Ryan are correctly dated.
 
In addition, on an earlier expedition with a submarine at the former shoreline they found what will probably be recorded in human history as “Noah’s plate”: An object made from sandstone with early letters on it. Currently, scientists are very reluctant to accept this finding, however, leading scientists have dated the plate as being Neolithic and also reviewed the signs, that seem to be in line with Old European Writing starting around 5500 BC on the Balkan Peninsula.
 
 
ARCHAEOLOGY
 
… before the Flood
 
The official opinion is that first settlers (7000 BC) sailed from Turkey through the Aegean Sea to Greece (Sesklo Culture; 6400 BC) and moved from there to Thracia (Karanovo Culture; today Turkey/Bulgaria), to the middle Danube region (Starcevo-Koeroes-Cris Culture 6200 BC, over the Balkan Mountains) and to the Dnjepr region (also 6200 BC, over the South and North Carpathian Mountains).
 
Obviously, this official doctrine has to be reviewed under the new evidence. Even for the late Bronze Age Greece it was an adventure to cross the Aegean Sea and settlements obviously used to stretch alongside waters but not over mountains. Under the new evidence the settlers moved primarily to the north along the coast of the freshwater lake (today’s Black Sea): In the great basin in the northwest they found favorable climatic condition, loess soils and lots of rivers. Here is the center of early Neolithic cultures, others call it “Civilization X”, we call it Atlantis.
 
The Neolithic development in Europe started from here around 6500 BC and moved up the rivers of Danube and Dnepr. This culture was drowned with Noah’s Flood 5500 BC and we are convinced that this culture also created the Atlantis saga.
 
… after the Flood
 
After such a geocatstrophic event - what would have to be expected? A waive of migration in all directions!
 
In Europe, Neolithic Culture dwelled on the Balkans for almost 1000 years. The year 5500 BC is the year of the Neolithic Diaspora in Europe: Linear Band Ceramics, a culture known through certain ornaments on their ceramics, spread through Europe within centuries, reaching Switzerland no later than 5300 BC and covering the area from the Paris Basin to the Ural Mountains before 5000 BC. In today’s Serbia and Romania, the Vinca-Culture establishes 5500 BC. This culture is even more developed and already had a complex system of writing.
 
For Egypt, the first Neolithic settlements start at 5500 BC, according to newest evidence. However, here we are confronted with a problem: From 5500 BC to 3000 BC the level of the World Ocean rises another 45 feet. Early cities in the Delta of the river Nile have to be expected well below the surface and well within ground waters. This is the reason, why the Egyptian Culture seems to rise from virtually out of nothing around 3500-3000 BC: Only the traces at the very rim, in the desert and in oases, have been found. The cities are buried under today’s Delta. We are convinced that American Geologist Robert Schoch is absolutely right to date the Sphinx no later than 5000 BC.
 
Mesopotamia: The fist settlements here have been proven to start at 5000 BC. This gap of 500 years can very well be explained. First of all, the story of the Tower of Babel gives us a hint: Before settling in Mesopotamia, refugees built a city in Eastern Anatolia; Mesopotamia was not really a good place to live: Natural resources are scarce and artificial irrigation has to be developed in order to be able to cope with unsteady waters. On the other hand: The Gulf of Persia used to be a real paradise at that time - before it was drowned by the water of the Indian Sea through the Strait of Hormuz and buried by the sediments of the rivers Euphrat and Tigris…
 
Overall, it is well known that the Indo-European Language was first developed in the region of the Black Sea. Scientists are fighting whether in the North, the South or the West - and they are not sure when exactly this language spread over the whole area from Western Europe to India. We are convinced that this language was spread over a wide region with the Great Flood that destroyed Atlantis, the prosperous Neolithic Center in today’s Black Sea. Indeed, review of genetic code confirms that the centre of a big waive of migrations is located around (exactly: in!) the Black Sea.
 
 
EARLY WRITING
 
This section could very well be put together with the spread of language and the findings in the genetic code, since its spread basically follows the same rules and logic. However, the obvious evidence in this area is widely ignored, while much attention and acceptance is given to speech and genetics. In principal, the spread of writing is indispensabley linked directly with speech and genetics.
 
When the first letters were found in the Balkan region, scientists assumed they were originally brought over by colonists from Babylon. There was compelling evidence, that the writing systems were similar: As a matter of fact, many of the letters seemed to be identical.
 
Later it was found out, that the Old European Writing had to be dated no later than 5500 BC, which made it 2000 years older than the first signs in Mesopotamia. Since then, archaeology chose to completely ignore this fact, which radically contradicted the well settled doctrine. Especially thanks to American scientist Marija Gimbutas and German scientist Harald Haarmann, the existence of such an early writing system in Europe is known and widely accepted. You can find an example of the Old European Writing/Vinca-Font here.
 
For three reasons early writing in Europe is important:
 
First of all, it helps to answer the question “When did Atlantis exist?” We are convinced that the destruction of Atlantis happened before 3000 BC: The Egyptians had a writing and a comprehensive dating system since around that date. Had Atlantis submerged after that date, the Egyptian Priest would have been able to say exactly when and exactly where. But Sonchis clearly sets the event long before the first dynasty of pharaohs. On the other hand, such a story with all its details cannot be transported over time without a writing system. Atlantis existed before 3000 BC; it had to exist not much earlier than the earliest writing system on the other hand. Consequently, we receive a time frame for the existence of Atlantis: 6000-3000 BC.
 
Secondly, the following question can be answered: “How could the saga of Atlantis be transported so far over time?” The answer is: The first refugees to Egypt already had a writing system. As a matter of fact, the Egyptian Priest was citing a primary source. This is why the saga is - as we will provide later in our catalogue - correct in so many details. Just recently German Archaeologist Guenther Dreyer re-dated the first Egyptian writing: He found that already 3400 BC a complete set of phonetic writing existed, making Egyptian Writing older than the Writing of Sumer. This had to be expected and we expect a further shift of this timeline. Unfortunately, the oldest and most abundant findings are covered by water and sediments in the Delta of the Nile.
 
Finally, early writing helps to answer the question “Where did Atlantis exist?” It is explicitly stated that Atlantis used to have a writing system. This also has to be expected from the level of development, especially of trade, as it has been described. Now, when the first known writing can be found at the middle Danube region, it is to assume that it was brought by refugees from Atlantis, the Neolithic center in the Black Sea, upwards on their way through Europe.
 
Overall, archaeologists are mistaken when they assume trade and exchange between cultures based on similar signs and writings. As a matter of fact, there is a common source in the same way as in speech or genetics.
 
 
ATLANTIS CATALOGUE
 
In general, people tend to put together a list of criteria, check whether they are fulfilled and come to the conclusion that Atlantis is where they assumed it to be. On the other hand, a catalogue is a good mean to give a brief overview. Here is our interpretation in short:
 

 
dark blue: world ocean, early freshwater lake
light blue: area flooded 5510 BC
red dotted line: area controlled by Atlantis
“Schlangeninsel” red dot: probable location of island/capital Atlantis
 
 
Topography
 
The Atlantic Sea means the Black Sea: This Sea used to be in-naviable due to methane and hydrosulfide gas resulting from the biological death of the sea as a consequence of inflowing saltwater into the freshwater lake. Rising gas bubbles lead a ship to immediately sink because the relative density of water with bubbles rapidly deteriorates. The methane gas is stored within the sediments at the bottom of the sea. The early Greece still called the sea “inhospitable sea”.
The Atlantic Ocean itself received its name from a misled location of Atlantis; consequently, this name does not give a clue to the location. The Greek word for sea, pontos, alone means the BlackSea. In the same way the Indo-European word for sea, mare (Latin), morje (Russian), meer (German), meru (Indian) originally means the Black Sea. Finally, if one takes a look at the global map of any culture in this region, Indian, Egypt, even antique Greece, the Black Sea is always in the middle (example1 example2 example3)!
 
The area is the basin in the northwest of the Black Sea. The area from Danube River to Don River and from Dneporopetrowsk to the former shoreline coincides with the size mentioned in the saga. As described, the area is slightly sloped towards the Black Sea rim.
 
The mountains in the north with their rich settlements mean the Carpathian Mountains with the archaeologically proven settlements of Starcevo-Koeroes-Cris. Wood, salt, gold, silver, probably copper and certainly obsidian (see below) were transported towards Atlantis via the Alt and Danube rivers. The location in the northwest coincides with the steady wind out of northwest.
 
It is supposed that Atlantis was an island. This is partly correct, partly not: The absolute center actually was an island with channels/rivers on all sides. The whole area was not an island. From the context it is clear that the word island is used in two different meanings: To describe the island in the middle of the capital and the country Atlantis itself. Swiss archaeologist Eberhard Zangger found out, that the Egypt Hieroglyph means both: Island and foreign country.
 
The Pillars of Hercules are identical with the Strait of Bosporus. As a matter of fact, the primary source did not say anything about the Strait of Gibraltar. First of all, the Pillars of Hercules are probably misinterpreted by the Egyptian Priest. We suppose that the primary source tells something about a strait in the west. Further, the Strait of Gibraltar received the name later through re-interpretation. In the beginning, the Strait of Bosporus was identified with this name. Later, around 2000 BC the antique Greece culture moved towards its today location from their area north of the Black Sea. Whereas the original Pillars of Hercules used to be in the west (from the earlier location), they were now lying in the east (from today’s location). Consequently, the name was given to the new strait in the west, Gibraltar. In the same way the name Hesperia (West) moved from the Carpatian Mountains (Atlantis-time) over Italy to Spain with the expansion of Greece’s horizon. Further, hero Hercules/Herakles is believed to dig the channel before putting up the pillars. This interpretation is not very fitting for the big strait at Gibraltar but for the 20 miles long and 1 mile wide channel from the Mediterrainan Sea/Marmara Sea to the Black Sea (picture). Finally, the mis-interpretation is due to the fact that Herakles visited Iberia. Later, when the saga was interpreted by the Greece and Romans, Iberia meant Spain. Earlier, Iberia was a country at the eastern coast of the Black Sea!
 
War on Greece and Egypt
 
The Atlantis saga very clearly and explicitly refers to Egyptian and Greece ancestors in Anatolia. There is strong evidence that both, Greece and Egyptians partly migrated from there to today’s location. This makes the war on Greece and Egypt a war of Europe against Asia or North-Black Sea against South-Black Sea.
 
Flood
 
Noah’s Flood as described by Pitman/Ryan lets Atlantis disappear in the Black Sea. Today it is not possible to determine, whether an earthquake caused the land barrier to break. Nevertheless, the Marmara region is known for its frequent and heavy earthquakes.
 
Economy and Trade
 
As we found out, Oreichalcos means the obsidian stone. This stone was used intensively until 5500 as a trading good/early money. In Europe it was replaced by the spondylus shell beginning 5500 BC. This is the reason why the priest Sonchis only knew the name oreichalcos without a hint or an idea of its real meaning; he had no idea that such a stone used to be cash. The purpose on the other hand determined its value to be second after gold: It reflected the amount of trade and the economic power. The flood virtually led to the first hyperinflation of mankind and the previous role of this precious stone was forgotten.
 
Rivers/Channels/Irrigation/Two crops: This is self-explainig in view of the rivers flowing through this area/basin. Irrigation (first use proven for Jericho, 7000 BC) allowed a second crop.
 
The population must have been relatively large (for stone age settlements). Steady growth through (i) good situation with respect to nutrition and (ii) steady inflow from migrations. The spread/diaspora after the flood shows that many people must have lived here. Overcrowding was compensated by migrations upwards the main European rivers, establishing five new “river-kingdoms”.
 
Trade: Atlantis was lying at the estuary of the big European rivers. Obviously there also was a loose connection to India/China because the route was not yet dried out. The use of pigs and lake dwellings was imported from there.
 
Circular Structure: The circular structure inspired the refugees; The first known circular structures in Europe date back as far as 5000 BC. Further, these were used as sun observatories; it was Atlas, the first King of Atlantis, who first discovered the secret of the sphere. Also, the idea of the labyrinth can be traced back to Atlantis.
 
Elephants existed in the plain/basin of Atlantis. Due to the fact that the route from India to Europe was not yet arid, Indian Elephants lived in this area. The last elephants in the region were eliminated not earlier 800 BC. Pharao Thutmosis III as a hunter killed 120 elephants there in 1200 BC.
 
Kings
 
Iapetos: According to Plato, Poseidon is the father of Atlas. We believe that the conservative view is valid, where the titan Iapetos is the father of Atlas. This change/break has been introduced by Plato intentionally: Iapetos was the grandfather of both, Deukalion and Pyrrha, who survived “Noah’s Flood” in Greek Mythology. As a matter of fact, the Greek Mythology has been brought to Greece 2000 BC by migrants from the area north of the Black Sea. Consequently, the Greek culture as we know it with God Zeus is identical with the descendants of Atlantis. With Iapetos, Plato would have highlighted a basic problem of Greek culture, never ending war between the Greece clans.
Further, the other three sons of Iapetos are identical with three other kings of Atlantis, and together they build the core of this culture:
Prometheus = Ampheres
Epimetheus = Euaimon
Menoitios = Mneseus
Further, the King Eumelos/Gadeiros is identical with Greece’s Hesperos
Iapetos is believed to be identical with the Jafetits of the Bible. They are represented by the third son of Noah, Jafet.
 
As far as the sequence of mentioning of the kings is concerned, please note, that the sequence follows a certain logic: Atlas (1) in the center, Eumelos/Gadeiros (2) as a very strong region (partly autonomous?) in the outer west, three kings (3-5) around the center (Capital) and five kings (6-10) each representing one of the five main rivers in the area. As far as the last kings are concerned: 6. = outer west 7. outer east 8-10. from west to east
 
Atlas lived in the Capital, probably Snake Island off the coast of Romania
 
Eumelos, Gadeiros: According to the Atlantis saga this region still existed at the time where Solon laid down the saga the first time. We are convinced that this means the people of Getae, who lived in the region of today’s Romania/Bulgaria.
 
Ampheres, Euaimon, Mneseus: Obviously, no direct reference can be made, since these regions around the center island were drowned.
 
Autochthon refers to the Danube River. The translation means native inhabitants.
 
Elasippos means horse of war; refers to their first domestication: Don River
 
Mestor = Dnestr River (similarity in sound)
 
Azaes = Bug River, Azaes means “the small one”
 
Diaprepes = Dnepr River (similarity in sound)
 
 
Not included
 
The following items cannot be found in our Atlantis as we understand it. Since they all refer to the military order which was explained by Plato very elaborate, we assume that these items were invented by Plato:
 
Triere (ship with three decks, not yet invented)
Horse (according to archaeology not yet domesticated)
Chariot (not yet known, however status symbol in Greece)
 
 
FURTHER INFORMATION
 
Authors:
 
Prof. Dr. Siegfried G. Schoppe teaches economics at the University of Hamburg, Germany
Christian M. Schoppe, MBA from Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville
Contact: Siegfried.schoppe@uni-hamburg.de
 
German pages: http://www.atlantis-schoppe.de
 
Hamburg/Frankfurt, August 12, 2004

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The lost continent of Atlantis to be found in near future
09/29/2004 18:46

Results of a previous research conducted in the area not far from Cyprus were classified as secret immediately

Several large international expeditions set off for different parts of the world last year to find vestiges of legendary Atlantis, which is still considered the exciting mysteries in the history of human civilization. According to the legend, the continent was flooded ten thousand years before Christ. Scientists still find ancient maps showing now-defunct islands and continents. British researcher Colin Wilson believes that the mystery of the lost continent will be unveiled very soon. The scientist decided to take part in the epoch-making event and joined another expedition devoted to Atlantis. Colin Wilson was inspired with recent explorations of mysterious and fathomless depth of the Mediterranean Sea - the cradle of the European civilization.

Explorers pay major attention to the part of the seafloor south off Cyprus, spreading to the coast of Syria. Scientists determined that the territory had been flooded, when the waters of the Atlantic Ocean broke through the dam between Gibraltar and North Africa and rushed into the Mediterranean lowland. A monstrous flood destroyed populated and fertile lands. Vestiges of fantastic ancient civilizations can be found on Cyprus, Crete, Malta, Corsica - the remains of the erstwhile Mediterranean lowland. Scientists believe that the area was populated with several nations, who shared their rich knowledge with ancient Egyptians, whose priests passed the legend of Atlantis across generations.

The destruction of the whole civilization was ascribed to gods' anger, who decided to punish Atlanteans for their moral degradation and sinful lifestyle. The story about the destroyed super-civilization exists for over 2,000 years, after it was first told by Plato, the Greek historian and philosopher. US Congressman Ignatius Donnelly wrote a book about Atlanteans in the 19th century. The congressman wrote in his work that they used to be first humans, who invented gun-powder, paper, studied astronomy and learned how to smelt metals. Egypt, Donnelly wrote, was their colony, where they tried to civilize wild tribes. Ignatius Donnelly thinks that the Great Sphinx of Egypt is a lot older that people think it is - it was built by those, who survived the cataclysm. It was proved as a result of scientific researches that the erosion of the sphinx's stone had been caused with hard rains, not with sand storms. It is supposed that the sphinx was built about 7,000 years B.C.

The mysterious Greek island of Santorini, situated not far from Crete, attracted a lot of attention in the 1960s. An enormous volcanic eruption destroyed the civilization that used to exist on the island, and Santorini turned to a huge sea crater. Archaeologists and historians added the island on their lists of 'candidacies' for the title of the lost continent, although it did not fit Plato's description. The events described in the legend of Atlantis took place a lot earlier than the destructive eruption and earthquake rocked the island.

Some scientists think that the Mediterranean Sea is rather young - it was supposedly formed after the end of the ice age, when the global warming commenced. Waters started changing continents' outlines, leading to monstrous floods. A low mountainous chain used to separate the Mediterranean lowland from the Atlantic Ocean.

Atlantis might have been the cradle of early Mideastern civilizations too. Colin Wilson believes that scientists will soon obtain sensational information about the flooded country. Specialists plan to photograph the bottom of the sea, where they expect to find ancient buildings. The results of the previous research conducted in the area were classified as secret immediately. This may bring up a question of which country may own the territory of Atlantis with priceless treasures and archaeological findings. Syria and Lebanon have already set forth their claims for a part of the lost continent. Turkey has recently evinced interest too. Naval forces of several states will most likely watch and control the route of the research vessel. The US Navy has reportedly scanned the areas of the seafloor, where the ancient city is presumably situated.

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If you've followed my posts I subscribe to Baillie's evidence on periods of environmental stress of which six can be traced conclusively. However the causes aren't always clear.

To recap:

2354-2345 BC - Umm al bini asteroid? no conclusive proof.
1628-1623 BC - Thera, Mediterranean
1159-1141 BC - unknown.
208-204 BC --- see article below.
536-545 AD Kapi (Krakatoa)
1815-1817 AD -- Tambora

.. and it looks like we have a culprit for 208-204 BC.
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3636946

By John von Radowitz, Science Correspondent, PA News

People living in southern Germany during Roman times may have witnessed a comet impact 5,000 times more destructive than the Hiroshima atom bomb, researchers say.

Scientists believe a field of craters around Lake Chiemsee, in south-east Bavaria, was caused by fragments of a huge comet that broke up in the Earth’s atmosphere.

Celtic artefacts found at the site, including a number of coins, appear to have been strongly heated on one side.

This discovery, together with evidence from ancient tree rings and Roman reports of “stones falling from the sky”, has led researchers to conclude that the impact happened in about 200BC.

However the claim still needs to be verified by other experts.

The crater field was uncovered after amateur archaeologists working in the area found pieces of metal containing unusual minerals.

A team of geologists led by Kord Ernston, from the University of Wurzburg in Germany, went to the site and discovered evidence of a cataclysm that would have left the region devastated for decades.

Not only would trees and homes have been flattened for many miles by the blast, but the local climate would have changed for years afterwards.

Tree rings show that vegetation growth slowed down in around 207BC, possibly because of the “nuclear winter” effect of dust blotting out the sun.

More than 80 craters were found in an elliptical area 36 miles long and 17 wide, ranging in size from 10 to 1,215 feet across. The largest, filled with water, now formed Lake Tuttensee.

Around the site the team found clues that suggested an impact from space, including rock heated into glass and minerals associated with meteorites.

The most likely cause was a low-density comet, 0.7 miles (1.1 kilometres) wide, that broke up at an altitude of 43 miles and fell in pieces to Earth, the scientists reported in Astronomy Magazine.

They wrote: “The main mass of the projectile struck the ground at 2,200 miles per hour, releasing an amount of energy equivalent to 106 million tons of TNT.”

The bomb that destroyed Hiroshima at the end of the Second World War had an explosive force of just 20,000 tons of TNT.

The scientists gave a graphic description of what it might have been like to experience the impact.

“About two seconds after the strike, people six miles away (10 kilometres) would have felt the ground shake as it would in a magnitude six earthquake. The air blast, arriving 30 seconds after impact, would have swept through at a speed of 500 miles per hour and produced a peak pressure of about 1.4 atmospheres, easily collapsing buildings, especially wooden ones.

“Even from 10 kilometres away, sound from the impact would have reached 103 decibels – loud enough to cause strong ear pain. Up to 90% of the trees would have blown over; the rest would have lost their branches.”

Forest beneath the blast would have ignited suddenly, and continued to burn until the shock wave blew the fire out, said the scientists.

The conflagration had left a thin layer of ash in and between the craters.

Roman authors at the time wrote about showers of stones falling from the sky and terrifying the local population.

Because of these events, the Senate in 205BC ordered that a conical meteorite known as the Needle of Cybele, which had been worshipped in Asia Minor, be brought to Rome.

“The impact undoubtedly had a major effect on the environment and people then living in the vicinity of Altoetting-Chiemgau,” wrote Ernston’s team.

“The region must have been devastated for decades. We are currently looking for gaps in the historical and archaeological records during the time we propose for the impact to better understand both the event itself and its cultural effects.”

Dr Benny Peiser, a leading expert on impact events from Liverpool John Moore’s University, said the report should be treated with caution until more was known.

He said the date was speculative, and pointed out that asteroids or comets a kilometre wide struck the Earth on average only once every 500,000 years. Generally such a large impact would cause much more severe and obviously traceable damage.

“In short, this is an an intriguing find, but I remain sceptical for the time being,” said Dr Peiser. “The impact cratering research community has not assessed these claims yet. That’s what needs to be done next.”

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U.S. Researcher Says Finds Atlantis Off Cyprus
Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:35 AM ET

By Michele Kambas

LIMASSOL, Cyprus (Reuters) - A U.S. researcher on Sunday claimed he had found the lost civilization of Atlantis in the watery deep off Cyprus -- adding his theory to a mystery which has baffled explorers for centuries.

Robert Sarmast says a Mediterranean basin was flooded in a deluge around 9,000 BC which submerged a rectangular land mass he believes was Atlantis, lying about 1 mile beneath sea level between Cyprus and Syria.

"We have definitely found it," said Sarmast, who led a team of explorers 50 miles off the south-east coast of Cyprus earlier this month.

Deep water sonar scanning had indicated man-made structures on a submerged hill, including a 3-kilometer-long wall, a walled hill summit and deep trenches, he said. But further explorations were needed, he added.

"We cannot yet provide tangible proof in the form of bricks and mortar as the artifacts are still buried under several meters of sediment, but the circumstantial and other evidence is irrefutable," he claimed.

At a news conference in the port city of Limassol, Sarmast provided only animated simulations of the "hill."

Whether and where Atlantis existed has captured imaginations for centuries.

According to ancient Greek philosopher Plato, Atlantis was an island nation where an advanced civilization developed some 11,500 years ago.

Theories abound as to why it disappeared, from Atlantis being hit by a cataclysmic natural disaster to Greek mythology which describes the civilization as being so corrupted by greed and power that it was destroyed by God.

Skeptics believe Atlantis was a figment of Plato's imagination.

Sarmast says he was led to Cyprus by clues in Plato's dialogues. Plato's reference to Atlantis lying opposite the Pillars of Hercules -- believed to be the Straits of Gibraltar -- have often led explorers to focus on either the Atlantic Ocean, Ireland or the Azores off Portugal.

"People who dismiss this have not really done their homework, skeptics don't really understand. To understand the enigma of Atlantis you have to have good knowledge of ancient history, Biblical references, the Sumerian culture and their tablets and so on," said Sarmast.

Although the most prevailing story of a world cataclysm is listed in the Biblical Old Testament, several ancient cultures do list accounts of civilizations being destroyed in floods.

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Second (and much more importantly), there will be an International Conference on 11 - 13 July 2005, Milos Island, Greece, entitled:

The Atlantis Hypothesis:
Searching for a Lost Land
http://milos.conferences.gr/index.php?id=915

This gathering looks like it will collect all the most recent research together and see where it stands. I'm posting this because I don't want any of the researchers here to miss out on chance to either attend, or present, if they wish. For all interested researchers who would like to present their work to the conference, the deadline for a submitted abstract is February 15 (two weeks away).
http://milos.conferences.gr/index.php?id=1084

Here is a list of the abstracts submitted so far:

quote:

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1. "The Geology of Gibraltar Strait and the Myth of Atlantis"
Jacques COLLINA-GIRARD, University Aix-Marseille I, France
2. "The Search of Atlantis in Cuba"
Andrew COLLINS, Historian, UK
3. "A Geographic Comparison of Plato's Atlantis and Ireland as a Test of the Megalithic Culture Hypothesis"
Ulf ERLINGSSON, Geologist, USA
4. "The Geography of Atlantis:Neither Allegorical Nor Exaggerated"
Rand FLEM-ATH, International Best Selling Author, Canada
5. "The Santorini Volcano: Geology and Atlantis Mythos"
Walter FRIEDRICH, University of Aarhus, Denmark
6. "Old and New Tools and Approaches in the Search of the Lost Land"
Michael FYTIKAS, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Greece and
George VOUGIOUKALAKIS, Institute of Geology and Mineral Exploration, Greece
7. "The Topos of Atlantis: Some Philosophical Insights"
Amihud GILEAD, University of Haifa, Israel
8. "Results of Russian Expeditions in Azoro-Gibraltar Tectonic Zone and Various Geophysical Model Atlantis Destruction"
Alexander GORODNITSKY, Shirshovs Oceanology Inst., Academy of Sciences, Russia
9. "Plato's Atlantis Tale III: Geographical Elements"
Rainer KUEHNE, Individual Researcher, Germany
10. "Palaeogeographic reconstructions of the Aegean. Was Atlantis on the doorstep of Athens?"
Kurt LAMBECK, The Australian National University, Australia
11. "The Constitution of Atlantis"
Manolis MIKROGIANNAKIS, University of Athens, Greece
12. "Dating of a Catastroph in the 12th century B.C, pre-hestoric Athens. Evidence from Platon's Critias"
Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
13. "Platon's Phaeton and Homer's Phaethousa. Cometary Fragments in the 12th century B.C"
Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
14. "Interpreting Myths; Catastrophism and New Catastrophism"
Spyros B. PAVLIDES and Alexandros CHATZIPETROS,
Aristotle University of Thessaloniki. Greece
15. "The Novelty of the Atlantis Myth in the Light of Freudian Interpretation"
Yair SCHLEIN, The College of Managment Academic Studies, Israel
16. "A Possible Asiatic Origin for Key Elements of Plato's Atlantis Story"
Robert SCHOCH,  Boston University, USA
17. "The Deucalion Catastroph"
Emilio SPEDICATO, University of Bergamo, Italy
18. "Atlantis in Quisqueya"
Emilio SPEDICATO, University of Bergamo, Italy

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With all these names, it sounds like it's going to be a very interesting conference.