Ah yes, the theft of the pagan holy days, don't get me started on that one!

Yes, I am writing a book, a fictional time-travel novel in which the main character goes back to Atlantis to save the Egyptian gods from destruction. It is actually the second book in a trilogy called the Talismans of Time. The first book is completed now and I'm working on the synopsis, outlines and query letters at the moment. This is the research phase for the second one. Which is now into chapter 2. The second book takes place only near the time of destruction circa 10500 bc. That is the area I am most concerned about. If you can make all the connections I will use them but I can't take the time to sort through it all. There is just too much information and after the first one is published I will have to deal with deadlines for the next ones which limits my research time to almost nill. Orginally I was going to link all the twins to the story by linking them to the cultures they correspond to, but that too has changed. Now I think what I will do is merely show the mixed cultures filtering through Atlantis but not dive into them except where needed. My main focus is and always has been the Egyptian side of the story, regardless. Most likely I will touch on the Greek gods as being inhabitants and possibly show Poseidon/Seth as the being of destruction since Seth is one of the bad guys in the book and a major player in the first as well. Since it is fictional, I can get away with a lot more than if it were non-fictional. I just think that the Eygptian side of it has received no justification and should. The plot is already mappped out but there are still adjustments to be made as I think of new twists to throw in. The final draft is posted on my site, if you'd like to read the first one. www.geocities.com/cleasterwood

I have Seth and Poseidon in my book, too, by the way, but as different people. Seth is so evil he seems to write himself. I also have gotten so "into" both the Greek and Roman gods that I had to put each of them in there, as two separate pantheons. Mythology is a great thing to draw inspiration from, isn't it?

"The religious rulers, or priesthood, originated with Seth, the eldest surviving son of Adam and Eve born in the second garden. He was born one hundred and twenty-nine years after Adam's arrival on {Earth}. Seth became absorbed in the work of improving the spiritual status of his father's people, becoming the head of the new priesthood of the second garden. His son, Enos, founded the new order of worship, and his grandson, Kenan, instituted the foreign missionary service to the surrounding tribes, near and far.

The Sethite priesthood was a threefold undertaking, embracing religion, health, and education. The priests of this order were trained to officiate at religious ceremonies, to serve as physicians and sanitary inspectors, and to act as teachers in the schools of the garden."
http://mercy.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webglimpse/mfs/usr/local/www/data/papers?link=http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper76.html&file=/usr/local/www/data/papers/paper76.html&line=62#mfs
.........
"The home life of the violet peoples was, for their day and age, ideal. Children were subjected to courses of training in agriculture, craftsmanship, and animal husbandry or else were educated to perform the threefold duty of a Sethite: to be priest, physician, and teacher.

And when thinking of the Sethite priesthood, do not confuse those high-minded and noble teachers of health and religion, those true educators, with the debased and commercial priesthoods of the later tribes and surrounding nations. Their religious concepts of Deity and the universe were advanced and more or less accurate, their health provisions were, for their time, excellent, and their methods of education have never since been surpassed."

............ "The Sethite priests, as regenerated under the leadership of Amosad, became the great post-Adamic teachers. They functioned throughout the lands of the Andites, and their influence persisted longest among the Greeks, Sumerians, and Hindus. Among the latter they have continued to the present time as the Brahmans of the Hindu faith. The Sethites and their followers never entirely lost the Trinity concept revealed by Adam." http://www.urantia.com/cgi-bin/webglimpse/mfs/usr/local/www/data/papers?link=http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper92.html&file=/usr/local/www/data/papers/paper92.html&line=110#mfs

The myth I have heard, and I have a lot of books on both Egypt and Egyptian mythology go like this:

Seth, jealous of Osiris, tricks him into laying in a box that only he can fit, not only is the guy killed, but eventually ends up dismembered, too. Isis, a stong lady, travels Egypt, searching for all the pieces of his body and gets them all back together again. Osiris lives for again for one last night where he and Isis make love, conceive Horace, then he dies again and becomes god of the Underworld. Horace becomes ruler of Egypt and ends up battling Seth for it's destiny. It's kind of a romantic story in a way.

Cleasterwood,

THE REMARKABLE IKHNATON

The teachings of Amenemope were slowly losing their hold on the Egyptian mind when, through the influence of an Egyptian Salemite physician, a woman of the royal family espoused the Melchizedek teachings. This woman prevailed upon her son, Ikhnaton, Pharaoh of Egypt, to accept these doctrines of One God.

Since the disappearance of Melchizedek in the flesh, no human being up to that time had possessed such an amazingly clear concept of the revealed religion of Salem as Ikhnaton. In some respects this young Egyptian king is one of the most remarkable persons in human history. During this time of increasing spiritual depression in Mesopotamia, he kept alive the doctrine of El Elyon, the One God, in Egypt, thus maintaining the philosophic monotheistic channel which was vital to the religious background of the then future bestowal of Michael. And it was in recognition of this exploit, among other reasons, that the child Jesus was taken to Egypt, where some of the spiritual successors of Ikhnaton saw him and to some extent understood certain phases of his divine mission to Urantia.

Moses, the greatest character between Melchizedek and Jesus, was the joint gift to the world of the Hebrew race and the Egyptian royal family; and had Ikhnaton possessed the versatility and ability of Moses, had he manifested a political genius to match his surprising religious leadership, then would Egypt have become the great monotheistic nation of that age; and if this had happened, it is barely possible that Jesus might have lived the greater portion of his mortal life in Egypt.

Never in all history did any king so methodically proceed to swing a whole nation from polytheism to monotheism as did this extraordinary Ikhnaton. With the most amazing determination this young ruler broke with the past, changed his name, abandoned his capital, built an entirely new city, and created a new art and literature for a whole people. But he went too fast; he built too much, more than could stand when he had gone. Again, he failed to provide for the material stability and prosperity of his people, all of which reacted unfavorably against his religious teachings when the subsequent floods of adversity and oppression swept over the Egyptians.

Had this man of amazingly clear vision and extraordinary singleness of purpose had the political sagacity of Moses, he would have changed the whole history of the evolution of religion and the revelation of truth in the Occidental world. During his lifetime he was able to curb the activities of the priests, whom he generally discredited, but they maintained their cults in secret and sprang into action as soon as the young king passed from power; and they were not slow to connect all of Egypt's subsequent troubles with the establishment of monotheism during his reign.

Very wisely Ikhnaton sought to establish monotheism under the guise of the sun-god. This decision to approach the worship of the Universal Father by absorbing all gods into the worship of the sun was due to the counsel of the Salemite physician. Ikhnaton took the generalized doctrines of the then existent Aton faith regarding the fatherhood and motherhood of Deity and created a
religion which recognized an intimate worshipful relation between man and God.

Ikhnaton was wise enough to maintain the outward worship of Aton, the sun-god, while he led his associates in the disguised worship of the One God, creator of Aton and supreme Father of all. This young teacher-king was a prolific writer, being author of the exposition entitled "The One God," a book of thirty-one chapters, which the priests, when returned to power, utterly destroyed. Ikhnaton also wrote one hundred and thirty-seven hymns, twelve of which are now preserved in the Old Testament Book of Psalms, credited to Hebrew authorship.

The supreme word of Ikhnaton's religion in daily life was "righteousness," and he rapidly expanded the concept of right doing to embrace international as well as national ethics. This was a generation of amazing personal piety and was characterized by a genuine aspiration among the more intelligent men and women to find God and to know him. In those days social position or wealth gave no Egyptian any advantage in the eyes of the law. The family life of Egypt did much to preserve and augment moral culture and was the inspiration of the later superb family life of the Jews in Palestine.

The fatal weakness of Ikhnaton's gospel was its greatest truth, the teaching that Aton was not only the creator of Egypt but also of the "whole world, man and beasts, and all the foreign lands, even Syria and Kush, besides this land of Egypt. He sets all in their place and provides all with their needs." These concepts of Deity were high and exalted, but they were not nationalistic. Such sentiments of internationality in religion failed to augment the morale of the Egyptian army on the battlefield, while they provided effective weapons for the priests to use against the young king and his new religion. He had a Deity concept far above that of the later Hebrews, but it was too advanced to serve the purposes of a nation builder.

Though the monotheistic ideal suffered with the passing of Ikhnaton, the idea of one God persisted in the minds of many groups. The son-in-law of Ikhnaton went along with the priests, back to the worship of the old gods, changing his name to Tutankhamen. The capital returned to Thebes, and the priests waxed fat upon the land, eventually gaining possession of one seventh of all Egypt; and presently one of this same order of priests made bold to seize the crown.

But the priests could not fully overcome the monotheistic wave. Increasingly they were compelled to combine and hyphenate their gods; more and more the family of gods contracted. Ikhnaton had associated the flaming disc of the heavens with the creator God, and this idea continued to flame up in the hearts of men, even of the priests, long after the young reformer had passed on. Never did the concept of monotheism die out of the hearts of men in Egypt and in the world. It persisted even to the arrival of the Creator Son of that same divine Father, the one God whom Ikhnaton had so zealously proclaimed for the worship of all Egypt.

The weakness of Ikhnaton's doctrine lay in the fact that he proposed such an advanced religion that only the educated Egyptians could fully comprehend his teachings. The rank and file of the agricultural laborers never really grasped his gospel and were, therefore, ready to return with the priests to the old-time worship of Isis and her consort Osiris, who was supposed to have been miraculously resurrected from a cruel death at the hands of Set, the god of darkness and evil.

The teaching of immortality for all men was too advanced for the Egyptians. Only kings and the rich were promised a resurrection; therefore did they so carefully embalm and preserve their bodies in tombs against the day of judgment. But the democracy of salvation and resurrection as taught by Ikhnaton eventually prevailed, even to the extent that the Egyptians later believed in the survival of dumb animals.

Although the effort of this Egyptian ruler to impose the worship of one God upon his people appeared to fail, it should be recorded that the repercussions of his work persisted for centuries both in Palestine and Greece, and that Egypt thus became the agent for transmitting the combined evolutionary culture of the Nile and the revelatory religion of the Euphrates to all of the subsequent peoples of the Occident.

The glory of this great era of moral development and spiritual growth in the Nile valley was rapidly passing at about the time the national life of the Hebrews was beginning, and consequent upon their sojourn in Egypt these Bedouins carried away much of these teachings and perpetuated many of Ikhnaton's doctrines in their racial religion.
*************

Absonite,
I don't think so. I've studied Egyptian mythology for almost 15 years. You may think it's out of Seth's character, but do you really KNOW?! So, here's my reply on the second thread:
Set is also spelled Seth in Egyptian mythology. It is a common name even in today's world. So, there are various ways to spell the name. Yet, right off the bat, your link has an error in it's "doctrine" Isis was never Osiris' mother. "The Egyptian cult of Osiris and his mother Isis." I loan no weight to inaccurate mythology or a religion that is based upon it.
Refer to Tour Egypt's site: Seth - The son of Geb and Nut in the Heliopolitan Ennead was in the form of an animal that has no zoological equivalent. This powerful god was regarded as god of the desert, making him a god of foreign lands.
http://touregypt.net/gods1.htm

It is not spelled Set, it's spelled Seth. He is also not considered the God of Evil and Darkness. The God of Chaotic Evil, is and always will be Apep, the Destroyer. Besides, in every book or website I've ever read, Seth is primarily spelled Seth, there are however, exceptions.

Dhill,
Thank you! One thing I don't mess up is my Egyptian mythology. It is possible that there are two different Seth's. but not in Egyptian mythology. Since Akhenaton was considered a heretic, it only stands to reason that he would use the wrong god in his doctrines to suit his own means.
The story of Isis and Osiris is very romantic, and trust me when I say this: I've already started on that novel too!

I'm unsure if anything Major happened to Isis afterwards but she was said to have been at the birth of several kings in later mythology, along with Nephyths, Nieth, and Selket (I think it was Selket). There are many myths about Isis. The link to the above story is this 4th & 8th ones down.: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/egypt_magic.html

Here are some more examples:
"Throne". Egyptian mother goddess. Daughter of Geb and Nut according to the Heliopolitan genealogy. Sister and wife of Asar (Osiris). Mother of Heru (Horus). She was depicted in human form, crowned either by a throne or by cow horns enclosing a sun disk. A vulture was also sometimes incorporated in her Crown. She is sometimes depicted as a kite above the mummified body of Asar (Osiris). As the personification of the throne, she was an important source of the pharaoh's power. Her cult was popular throughout Egypt, but the most important sanctuaries were at Giza and at Behbeit El-Hagar in the Nile delta. Aset (Isis) later had an important cult in the Greco-Roman world, with sanctuaries at Delos and Pompeii. Her Latin epithet was Stella Maris, or "star of the sea".

In this connection she took on the role of a goddess of the dead and of funeral rites.

Later mythology is too vague or lost in the folds of time. In this version of the Osiris myth, Seth is spelled Set. Hence it adds to the earlier confusion.

In the very beginning of time Osiris was the king of Egypt and his queen (and sister) was the goddess Isis.
He was beloved by the people whom he told how to worship the gods and grow their crops for their daily bread. His brother Set became jealous and tried to overthrow him and become king himself. When participating in a feast with Osiris as host, Set began to describe a beautiful coffin he had, in a way that made the other guests curious.
He was asked to fetch it and so he did and this was just in line with his plan. Everyone agreed on that it was a magnificent piece and Set told them that he would give it away to whomever fitted exactly into it. Since he had made the coffin himself it was measured to fit one person only - his brother Osiris. When he placed himself in it Set and his fellows quickly nailed the lid and threw it into the Nile. Queen Isis was overcome by sorrow and began to search all over the land for it, but in vain.

One day she heard that a wonderful tree had sprung on the shores of Byblos in the north on the Eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea, where the king had cut it down and built a palace from it.

Isis understood that this was the place where the coffin had come to shore and she went there in disguise. She got job at the court as a hairdresser for the queen and now when she could walk freely inside the castle she began to look for the coffin, and finally she found it. She took it and left for Egypt by boat and came to the marshlands in the delta. There she opened it and took a last farewell of her beloved husband Osiris and began searching for a suitable place to bury him. But Set was aware of all this and was hiding nearby. When Isis went to rest for the night he snatched the coffin and cut his brother's body into fourteen pieces and spread them all over Egypt. Isis became furious and asked her sister Nephthys and her son Anubis, the jackal, to help her to regain the pieces of her husband's body.

They now started a nation wide search that lasted for many years and finally all the part were found except for the penis which had been thrown into the Nile where it was devoured by a catfish.
Isis made a wooden replacement for it and then put the whole body together. She now asked the sun god Re to make her husband alive just for one day, which he did, and they could have a last night of love together. The next day Osiris died and his body was enbalmed by Anubis who thus made him the first mummy. Isis later gave birth to a son who was named Horus and she did all she could to keep it a secret from Set, but he found them and almost killed them in an ambush.

They were saved by the god of wisdom - Thot, and he told them to hide in the reeds in the marshes. But again the evil Set found their hiding place and he transformed himself into a snake and gave the child a poisoness bite.
When Isis came back she found Horus lifeless, and took him to the nearest village to get help. A wise old woman examined the child and found out that it must have been Set as a snake who had bitten him. Thot came to their rescue once more and drove out the poison from Horus' body and he recovered. He and his mother stayed hiding in the delta until he was a mature man and sometimes he took the form of a hawk and scouted out Set for the final showdown - the revenge on his murdered father. When that moment came they fought for three days until Thot stopped the fight. They were both taken to the Court of Law in the Underworld and presented their versions of the story. The Court did not believe Set, who was sentenced to pull the boat with the sun across the sky forever. Horus now became king of Egypt like his father Osiris before him, and the good had finally concurred evil.
Isis put the body of her dead husband in a coffin and had nineteen identically coffins made in which she put duplicates. Priest from Egypt's twenty biggest towns then were given one each and could all thereafter claim that they had Osiris' tomb in their town. Thus many places in Egypt were called Abusir (the place of Osiris).

anyway, we are getting far afield here, Set and Seth are not the same people, and the wacked out off the wall myth about Osiris and his 14 coffins and missing penis is not even worth commenting upon. Sounds like something from a Freud refugee fairy tale and you are trying to give it some credence in reality.

Cleasterwood, your version of the story of Seth/Osiris/Isis is the one that I heard, and yes, the names "Set" and "Seth" are interchangeable in a lot of the books I have about Egypt.

Having said, that, Absonite, I do agree we are probably talking about two different people as the characters of each don't resemble each other that much. Seth was a common name back then, could be that there were many diiferent "Seths." I also don't think that the biblical Seth and the one in Egypt are the same either, like Helios suggests, they don't resemble one another either.

Funny I didn't see this sooner;

I'm glad you enjoyed the wacked out off the wall myth that abounds throughout Egyptian mythology. None of it is in my imagination! You can think it's a fairy tale all day, but do a search online, pick up a book on Egyptian mythology, and you'll find it. The writing is on the wall! It is a known truth not something I made up to add credence to reality. Do you want the link?
Here's some real links: [URL=http://www.aelives.com/gods.htm]http://www.aelives.com/gods.htm http://nemo.nu/ibisportal/0egyptintro/1egypt/index.htm

Any of these links will prove what I said is true. If you don't believe that go to the library and pick up any book on Egyptian mythology, then we'll see who's making things up. I don't lie, nor do I judge others. I simply state my opinion and provide evidence to support the theory. I didn't intend on scoffing your religion and I apologize if it sounded that way. I'm simply stating what I see to be incorrect.

Yes, we are most likely talking about different people, that I can admit. As I said before it is a common name even today.
Yes, Dhill, it does seem like the Biblical flood could coincide with the primordial chaos.

I take my mythology seriously and it sickens me that these 'false religions' make idols of fools. This is one reason I don't follow any religion at all. They are too contorted by time. I believe there is an all powerful being that created this world and us and it's up to me to interpret what he/she wants from me not some religion where most people don't practice what they preach.

I wish you all the best with your research, I hope that you all find what you're looking for and it makes you whole. Please be kind to one another.
Sincerely,
Ms. C. L. Easterwood

------------------
The afterlife is what you make it, not what someone tells you it is. Make this life and the next count.

Four "cosmologies," or theories about creation are involved, each developing over different periods in ancient Egypt. There are some common elements to each theory. For example, each theory holds that in the beginning, only a primordial, stagnant ocean called Nu existed. In addition, the four theories agree that out of Nu, rose the primeval hill. Each cosmology believed it was their temple that stood on this hill. The first step-pyramids are no doubt symbolic of this mound.
http://touregypt.net/gods1.htm (thanks Cleasterwood)

Ra-Atum gave birth to twins. Shu, his son and god of the air, was spit out, and his daughter, Tefnut, goddess of world order was vomited out by Ra-Atum. The Twins were raised by Nu and supervised by Ra-Atum's eye. The story of Ra-Atums eye will be told later. Shu and Tefnut gave birth to Geb, god of the earth, and his wife and sister, Nut, goddess of the sky. Geb and Nut, in turn, were the parents of Isis, Osiris, Nephthys, and Set. These four gods, especially Osiris play a major role in later myths. Horus, another god was the son of Isis and Osiris. These five younger gods and goddesses may have been incorporated by the priests of Heliopolis. Whatever the case, this "Ennead," or grouping of gods, were very much a part of tradition during this time.

Seth - The son of Geb and Nut in the Heliopolitan Ennead was in the form of an animal that has no zoological equivalent. This powerful god was regarded as god of the desert, making him a god of foreign lands.

Thoth - He was worshipped as a baboon in Hermopolis. He was the god of sacred writings and wisdom.

Shu - He was an ancient cosmic power and was regarded as the god of the air and the bearer of heaven.

Osiris - He is regarded as the dead king that watches over the nether world and is rejuvenated in his son Horus. As the symbol of eternal life he was worshipped at Abydos and Philae.

Apis - Seen as the bull with a solar disk between its horns, Apis was associated with Osiris and Ptah.

Let's associate this with Atlantis for fun and the eastward migration to Egypt.

15,000 bC
Thoth brings Atlantean wisdom through Atalantes to Cyrene,Lake Tritonis. Sacred hill, Phla. Later to be worshipped on the island of Philae in Egypt.

10,000 bC
Atlantis
Ra>Saturn/Uranus

Ra-Atum give birth to twins.
Twins raised by NU >Atlantic Ocean

Ra>son Evenor
Atum>daughter Leucippe the bearer.

9000 bC
Shu > Poseidon Earth/Sea,raiser of the sky.
Tefnut>Cleito> Twins, Atlantis Royal City.

7000 bC
Geb>Atlas>Atalantes region, 1st migration.
Nut>Atlas' sister,ancient Mauretania/Libya.

6482 bC Atlantis sinks
Eastern migrations.

5000 bC
Thoth's ancestors.
Osiris>Evaemon/ Lake Tritonis/Egypt
Isis>Athena/Libya/Egypt
Temple building in Malta

4000 bC
Seth>Northern Egypt
Nephthys>Phoenicia
Osiris/Seth battle over Egypt, Osiris killed.

3500 bC
Scorpion King
Horus>son of Osiris/Isis. Pharaohs/ Unified Egypt with the help of Isis picking up the 14 pieces of Osiris.

3100 bC King Menes rules unified Egypt.(Narmer,AHa) Cult of PtAh.

2800 bC, Cult of Seth revived with the Trismesgitus of Menkaure,Khufu,Khafre,Temples Closed.

1700 bC Hyksos/Seth cults invade Egypt. Avaris settled.

1570 bC King Apepi frees Egypt. (Apis Bull)

570 bC the Egyptian priest realizing the end of Egypt retells Atlantis story ,preserved from Thoth and Osiris, to Solon.

Reference to your Hept theory Quoted from a biblical site:
Nimrod and Semiramis
Legends are difficult to prove; they are almost impossible to disprove. Nimrod, the mighty hunter before (against) the Lord, was the first to organize cities into a kingdom under human rule, Genesis 10:8-10. This much we know from the Bible. The name Nimrod comes from the word, marad, meaning “he rebelled.” Legend has it that Nimrod married his own mother, Semiramis. After Nimrod died, Semi­ramis claimed Nimrod was the sun-god. She later had a child, Tammuz, whom she claimed was Nimrod reborn, supernaturally conceived, the promised seed, the “savior.” Semiramis developed a religion of mother and child worship. Symbols were used to develop a “mystery” religion. Since Nimrod was believed to be the sun-god (Baal), fire was considered his earthly representation. In other forms, Nimrod was symbolized by sun images, fish, trees, pillars, and animals. Tammuz, son of the sun-god, was represented by the golden calf. And so it was, that mankind followed this religion of worshipping the creation (creature) rather than the Creator, Romans 1:21-26.
Whether or not the Nimrod-Semiramis-Tammuz legends are completely historical or not is immaterial. The result of these legends is that mankind in general, has followed variations of one kind or another, of the religion of Babylon, to this day.
Rome, the greatest and longest-lived human world-ruling empire, assimilated religions from her many conquered territories. All these religions had commonalities, for they all came from Babylon. These practices infiltrated and overcame the professing Christian Church, which later came to be dominated by Rome itself.

If Nimrod was the claimed 'sun god' he is best equated with RA not Osiris. The legends abound but never has Isis been considered the Mother of Osiris. The Egyptians named their children after the gods so it therefore goes toward proving that this is not the Goddess herself but a mortal who took her name.
According to most, Babylon, i.e. Nimrod's kingdom, occurred much later in history than the Isis/Osiris/Horus legends. The first humans came from Africa and as far as I'm concerned, their cultures hold the 'real' key, not like some who claim that the Semi­ramis/Nimrod/Tammuz was the beginning of all pagan religions. Bull!

No need to get too upset as Absonite is basing his claims on the Urantia Book which is understandable.

Absonite,
Understandable that you think you're bursting my bubble. You are going to believe what you believe based on what you know. Whether or not you base it on 1 idea alone or not, I don't know. You have every right to say yours is based upon fact & truth, but not revelation my friend. Modern religion is corrupt, regardless of what it is or who says it is. Who besides this man says the Urantia is the ONE that proves it all? What hard-hold-in-your-hand scientific evidence backs it up? How can you base your opinion of one man? Questions only lead to more questions so I'll stop asking them. Point is, an there is no offence intended, the man is human and therefore subject to his own devices. Yes he was researching this paper using all the resourses available to him, but he interprets them based on what he percieves to be the truth. Sure, he was hit with an epiphany and that's great for him. I'm just not following blindly. He got all his information from mythology! To me, the Bible is partial mythology. It's rooted in truth and history, but it's not always accurate. Just look at the first chapter's heading: The Modern Interpretation of History A Radical New View How History Is Written Not Without Bias Emphisis on WRITTEN NOT WITHOUT BIAS. Therefore, it is proof only in his eyes and his opinion is bias! Even the older book itself was written with bias of the person who wrote it.
I respect your opinion and what you hold as truth but we don't always believe the same things. It's good to have strong conviction as it will aid this journey through life, mine are different. For all practical purposes, I will continue to quote Egyptian mythology and we won't disagree with regards to this particular matter. You deal with the way I see it and I'll deal with the way you see it. Just remember, I do not derive stories about their mythology to add credence to reality. Who's right? Does it matter? Who knows?

I am actually leaving for a little while, but not because of this discussion. Everyone's opinion and research has value if you know how to interpret it. I'm simple. I quote the mythology taught widely and will never steer you wrong about it as long as I myself am not dupped by misinformation. I try to research everything thoroughly so that doesn't happen. When I have the time you can be assured I will study the Urantia so I can form my own opinion of it. Who knows maybe I'll agree with some of it.
Now, though, I don't have the time. I'll save it for a day when the muse disappears on me. FYI, my fictional novels are based on Egyptian mythology.

May you all be blessed and safe while I'm away from the site.
Keep research alive!
C. L. Easterwood

Sabratha is truly beautiful. The Temple of Isis against the Sea is magnificient. It also parallels Lixus and the art of the contemporary world at that time.

I don't know the secrets of Sabratha or Lixus other than being built on top of other sites as Lixus was mentioned to by Jonas.

Really though, believe it or not, Sabratha is new to me, which made it even more enjoyable!

If any of you people reading this don't check out those pictures, well don't say I didn't tell you to!

Here's another cool pic of the Gulf of Gabes and the lake Tritonis region. You can sure tell the amount of flooding from the ebbed recession at the bottom.
I wonder if that oblong circular impression to the left of the recession was lake Tritonis?

note[1]>>>>bottom of page.
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/napata_stela.htm

I'm am almost convinced that Atlantis means either;

A) Father land
B)God's Land
C)Risen Land

AT-LANT the Greeks added the IS. The I is like a go between,and, ,also or of. Like Atlantikos, of the kos, or Atlantiades. We changed the I to an E, like Atlantean.

Basque
Father iz. aita (Basque) or b. Holy -aita (Santu//Saindu)
http://www1.euskadi.net/morris/resultado.asp

mother iz. ama (Basque)

atlas iz. 1. atlas (Basque)
2. Arkit. atlante, giza estatua, arkitrabeari eusten diona

Sanskrit
http://www.uni-koeln.de/phil-fak/indologie/tamil/mwd_search.html

father >> tatatata
Meaning m. father of fathers W.

bhagavattara
Meaning mfn. more or most holy or adorable

Greek >> atta, a salutation used to elders, father, Hom.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3D%235482

Indonesia father = atas or atu

latin
altor=foster father
atavus=g,g,great grandfather
pater father or patria fatherland

Ulysses visited here in the Illiad where his men ate the fruit of the Lotophages and did not want to leave.

quote:

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the Greek historian Herodote, who sejourna at Garmantes and Libons, spoke in his recits about Lotophages about the island about Phla... At the 3rd front century. J.C., the Polybe observer gave details precis on this island that it designa, this time, by the name Meninx which Carthaginois donnerent has this island depourvue sources and rivers. Of origin phenician, this Meninx toponym, which derive of the word "me-strokes" - means "lack of water". The island kept this punic name, Meninx, until the 3rd century ap. J.C. At this time, Roman, it took the name of DJERBA , term which derive of Girba , an ancient locality locates close to the fortress and the wearing of Houmt-Souk.

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It seems unlikely that Djerba could have been Phla for it was to be situated in Lake Tritonis,unless for some reason it was here and perhaps sank leaving the circular inlet below Djerba?
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/user/70968/DJERBA.HTMl&prev=/search%3Fq%3DDjerba%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26s a%3DN
http://www.tourismtunisia.com/togo/jerba/jerba.html

Atalante;

Tartarus (1), originated from Chaos, is the lowest abyss beneath the earth where all waters originate; all rivers flow into the chasm of Tartarus and flow out of it again. Tartarus is, they say, a gloomy place as far distant from earth as earth is from the sky. For, it is said, a brazen anvil falling down from heaven nine nights and days would reach the earth upon the tenth: and again, a brazen anvil falling from earth nine nights and days would reach Tartarus upon the tenth. Still others say that Tartarus yawns deep under the shades, extending down twice as far as the view upward to Heaven. Tartarus and the Underworld are the realm of Erebus, which is pure Darkness. Tartarus is also a place of punishment. Round it runs a fence of bronze, and night spreads in triple line all about it. Some say that the gates are of iron and the threshold of bronze, and others that there is a threefold wall around it. Around this triple wall flows Pyriphlegethon with its flames and its clashing rocks. The entrance, in which there is an enormous portal has pillars of solid adamant that not even the gods could break. At the top of its tower of iron sits Tisiphone 1 (one of the ERINYES), with her bloody robe, and sleepless day and night, guards the entrance. Tartarus, who also is a being capable of intercourse, is the father, by Gaia, of Echidna and Typhon (although the latter is also called son of Tartarus and Tartara). Some call him also father of Hecate [AO.977; Apd.1.1.1ff., 1.2.1, 1.6.3, 2.1.2; Hes.The.116ff., 721, 822; Hom.Il.8.15; Hyg.Fab.152; Ov.Fast.5.244].
http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/001ShortEntries/SETalaus.html

You've mentioned before how the triple walls of Tartarus and it's remote location parallel Atlantis.

What I also find amusing is the mention of the brazen anvils falling out of the sky!! Two of them to be precise.

This sure fits in with my theory of an Asteroid hitting the Earth (Atlantis) then the other one hitting the Dragon's head at the Tore Seamount which the rings can still be seen today from the impact!

Interesting.

Diogenes Laertius I. 61 [Life of Solon]:

"Besides the laws, of course, he wrote Speeches to the People and Exhortations to himself in elegiacs, and the poems on Salamis and Athenaion Politeia, 5000 lines in all; also Iambics and Epodes. His statue is inscribed as follows:

'This is Solon the Thesmothete, whom Holy Salamis bore, who ended the hubris of the Medes.'

According to Sosicrates he flourished in Olympiad 46, in the third year of which [594 B.C.] he was Archon in Athens.
It was then that he made the laws.
He died in Cyprus at 80 years of age, having left the following instruction to his relatives: to carry his bones to Salamis and having burnt them to scatter them over the land.

So Kratinos says in the Cheirones, making Solon say:

'I live on an island, as the report of men has it, scattered over all the polis of Ajax.'
Plutarch Life of Solon 32. 3:

According to Heracleides of Pontos, Solon survived the beginning of the reign of Peisistratus [his mother's sister's son] by some considerable time; according to
Phanias of Eresos, by less than two years. Peisistratus began his tyranny in the Archonship of Komias [561/0 B.C.], and Phanias says that Solon died in that of
Hegestratos, the man who served as archon after Komias.

The absurdity of the scattering of his ashes over the island of Salamis would seem to make it entirely improbable and mythical, and yet the story is attested by
reputable authorities including Aristotle the Philosopher."

Plato Timaeus 20 e:
KRITIAS: Now he was connected with my family (oikeios), and very much a friend of my great-grandfather Dropides, as he often says in his poetry.

Proclus, comment on the passage: 'The history of Solon's family (genos) and of Plato's connection (syngenneia) is as follows:

Solon and Dropides were the sons of
Execestides, and Dropides was the father of Kritias, who is mentioned by Solon in his poetry, saying: Tell golden-haired Kritias to listen to his father;/ for he will obey an unerring commander (hegemoni).'

ADDITIONAL MATERIALS:
Life of Solon by Plutarch, Parallel Lives [Internet

Classics Archive, MIT]
Solon by Herodotus (Histories, Book I ) [Internet

Classics Archive, MIT]
'Aristotle', Constitution of the Athenians [poems by

Solon quoted, references to his political activities)

[Internet Classics Archive, MIT]

Truesdell S. Brown, Solon and Croesus Ancient History

Bulletin 3, 1989, 1-4.
Selections J. P. Holoka [Eastern Michigan Univ.] (a

summary of Solon's life and work)
'Solon' (Encarta encyclopedia article)
Class Notes on Solon [Greek History Course, Reed College]

Class Notes on Herodotus (includes Solon) [U. Saskatchewan Classics Dept.]
SOLON (E-Classics article on Solon) [Wilmot McCutchen]

The most complete collection of material about Solon is found in:

Antonius Martina, Solon: Testimonia veterum. Testimonianze sulla vita e l' opera (Roma: Edizioni dell' Ateneo 1968).

An adequate collection can be found in: J. M. Edmonds (ed.) Greek Elegy and Iambus Volume I (Loeb Classical Library #258, 1931), pp. 104-155.

For Solon's legislation, consult: E. Ruschenbusch, SOLONOS NOMOI [Historia Einzelschriften, 9 1966].

Kathleen Freeman, Life and Work of Solon (1926).
W. J. Woodhouse, Solon the Liberator (1938).
Charles Hignett, History of the Athenian Constitution
(Oxford 1952).
Ivan Linforth, Solon the Athenian (Berkeley 1919).
A. French, Growth of the Athenian Economy (1964).

by Riven and Atalante
(and a little help from our friends at AR!)

Atlantis = Atlant (Fatherland)
Aita (Basque) Patra /Atta (Greek) Pater(Latin) it(Egyptian)

Atlas (Father’s son, to raise sky)
Nw Africa (Guanches, Aterians Capsians, Berbers).

Gadeirus (green body of rivers)
Iberia, Basque, Cimmerian, Portugal, Spain
(Greeks also referred to as: Eumeleus=rich in sheep)

Ampheres (to rest,at both sides) Taranto>Otranto
Italy, Sicily, Sardinia, Tyrrhenia, Malta (Tarxien >Tarshin)

Evaemon (fortunate woman)
Algeria, Tunisia, Libya ( Atalantes, Qadan, Maxyan, Lotophagi)

Mneseus memory of a great warrior (Zeus) (from a Trojan)
Crete (Minos, Amnisus)

Autochthon (earthborn)
Peloponnesia, Attica, Cyclades.

Elassipus (horse riding, rulers)
Anatolia (Phrygia, Ionia, Caria, Ephaesus)

Mestor (NNE middle, Suitor)
Phoenicia, Syria (Byblos, Tyre)

Azaes (Heat)
Mauretania (Azas, Azamor)

Diaprepes (relating to God, highly distinguished)
Egypt, Nubia, Ethiopia.

The Founders of Atlantis

Poseidon (Sea God, Land God, EarthShaker, savior of ships, horses) Cleito’s lover.

Evenor (primeval firstborn) Cleito’s Father

Leucippe (Grove of White Horses, Spartan surname) Cleito’s mother

Cleito (emperor’s favorite) Acropolis hill, Atlantis Royal City.

Based on Atlantean migration 10,840 bC (estimated 1,240 years of growth)
Countries Liberated after Great Battle and Atlantis sinking (2850-9600 bC)

Riven dates a more precise estimate of Nov 1st, 6482 bC 21:00hrs for the great flood and sinking of Atlantis. Based on the Eye of Ra myth, ecliptic alignment of planets, Mt.Vesuvius and Mt. Hekla eruptions, Bosphorous straite (Black Sea) flooding and All Saints Day of Destruction Nov 1 and the margin of error between Greek Lunar Cycles and Egyptian Sun Cycles. Although Atlantis sank around this time, they still maintained control from the Lake Tritonis region no later than 1500 bC.

Ironically Nov 1,1755, an earthquake from African/European plate tectonic pressure, triggered a great Tsunami that wiped out Lisbon, Azores, Madeira, Canaries and NW Africa.

ATLANTES-of Libyan people
ATLANTICUS-of Mount Atlas
ATLANTIAS-female
ATLANTIADES-male

The word Atlantis];
Re: Basque Translation by Riven

"The main evergreen forest is born a joyous miracle at dawn the abundant monument increases to unite the future arrival and remain loyal to the secret of creation." www.mts.net/~perasa

Atalante -proposed these names also mean a working class such as Diaprepes=Priestly or Mestor=Architect

Original.............Babylon.......>=of

Alulium >Eridu...............Aloros>Babylon
Alialgar>Eridu.............Alaparos>unknown
Enmenluanna>Badtibira.....Amelon>Pautbiblon
missing..................Ammenon>Pautbiblon
Enmengalanna>Badtibira....Amegalaros>" "
Dumuzi>Badtibira..........Daonos>Pautbiblon
Ensipazianna>Larak.....EuedorachosPautbiblon
Enmeduranna>Sippar.....Amempsinos>Laragchos
Ubartutu>Shuruppak.......Otiartes>Laragchos
Ziusudra>Shuruppak.......Xisouthros>unknown

Compare

Atlantis....................Babylon

Atlas.......................Aloros
Gadeirus....................Alaparos
Ampheres....................Amempsinos
Evaemon.....................Amelon
Meneseus....................Ammenon
Autochthon..................Otiartes
Elassipus...................Euedorachos
Mestor......................Amegalaros
Azaes.......................Xisouthros
Diaprepes...................Daonos

I would guess that if Berosus wasn't thinking of the Atlantis story, then I would imagine he was thinking of the Battle of Troy?

Athenian Clan of Codrides.

or Solon came from Salamis.

Euripides was born in Salamis, parents came from ancient Flia,(Chalandri) Athens.

Solon's parents were from Salamis and Solon wrote a poem about the island: ( kai ta peri Salaminos epe pentakischilia (Diogenes Laërtius 61 ).

Plato's mother Perictione also came from the Codrides through Solon's brother, Dropides.

Diodorus Siculus says: en de kai Solon patros men Exekestidou, to genos ek Salaminos tes Attikes (IX, 1, 1- fr.6

Hellanicus wrote a non-extant chronicle of Attica's history, in which facts are related in a rational and chronological order based on the annual archons from 683-2 BC on [up to 404 BC]. This book, called Attike Xyggraphe, recorded the Athenian tradition for the first time ever. Given that Solon lived from 640 to circa 560 BC and was chief archon in 594 BC, it is certain that Hellanicus would have mentioned the life and the work of Solon as a milestone in Attic history. Hence, Hellanicus serves as a reliable information source to Diodorus (as regards Solon).8

Timaeus of Tauromenium, who also originated from Sicily

Solon died in Cyprus and then, following his wishes, his family transferred his bones to Salamis; there they were incinerated and his ashes were dispersed across Ajax's island:

Cratinus (5th century BC). In his non-extant comedy Cheirones, he has Solon say the following: oiko de neson, hos men anthropon logos, esparmenos kata pasan Aiantos chora, "I live in this island, scattered, according to tradition, across Ajax's country" (Diogenes Laërtius A 62).
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/ejournals/ElAnt/V6N1/bakaoukas.html

Well it sure seems that if there could lie a hint of the papyrus that Solon or Dropides wrote the Atlantis story on, it may very well be hidden in Salamis.

Did you hear a bell when you read that Aiantos meant Ajax?

In John Porter's thesis from the University of Saskatchewan about Solon, he relates how the ancient Greeks used certain words to describe meaning like in the Iliad of Homer.
http://duke.usask.ca/~porterj/CourseNotes/SolonNotes.html

quote:

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Solon's reforms attempted to address the grievances of the demos by having wealth, not birth, determine the individual's status in the community. We have already seen how economic changes in this period disrupted Theognis' world, as the impoverished former aristocrat saw his social inferiors rise to prominence in his stead. Solon, too, is very concerned with the disruptive influences of new riches in the wrong hands. His verses have a great deal to say about the dangers of *ploutos (wealth in the narrow sense) as opposed to a more general prosperity (*olbos, which includes such things as health and well-being in addition to wealth). Like Theognis, he portrays members of the demos becoming, as it were, drunk on an excess of ploutos and success. Such a state is referred to as *koros or "satiety" — an over-repletion of wealth and success. Koros, Solon tells us, leads directly to *hybris. The latter is a tricky word. Today it is used to refer to "overweening pride," often in very Christian terms. In antiquity, however, hybris was a form of violent arrogance or aggression that displayed itself, not in one's attitudes, but in one's actions (see The World of Athens 3.15). The hybristic man was not simply proud or arrogant (as we have seen, the Greeks did not regard justifiable pride as a character flaw) but treated others with a violence that suggested that they were, in effect, mere slaves. (Thus in Athenian legal parlance, hybris is the technical term for assault and battery.) Hybris, in turn, leads to ruin or *atę. Atę is another complex term. It is perhaps best described as a ruinous delusion — a state of mind in which one commits a foolish error that leads to disaster. (It is atę to which Phoenix refers in the parable he tells Achilles at Iliad 9.502-12 [FN 2] [where it is translated as "ruin"], as does Agamemnon in his "apology" at Iliad 19.86ff.) On a psychological level the cycle of koros-hybris-atę makes a certain sense: an excess of success leads one to behave with a violent recklessness which in turn leads to a ruinous error. In frg. 6 and the opening of frg. 4 Solon expresses his concern that the demos and its leaders will fall into the cycle of koros-hybris-atę and bring ruin upon the state. In frg. 4 he goes on to express the hope that his policy of eunomia will restore balance, order, and harmony to the state and so prevent revolution, the rise of a tyrannos, and ruin for all.

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Well then, it seems that Atlantis can also be viewed as a koros-hybris-ate type society.

And it also reasons to arrive at such a name like Atlantis, or Ate lantis in a sense. A ruined land.

peculiar.

Here is an interesting quote from Diodorus Siculus, which ties in nicely with the lack of Minoan info in traditional Greek myths. As you can see, Diodorus proposes that the Titans were living on Crete during the Minoan phase of Knosos.

“The Titanes had their dwelling in the land about Knosos, at the place where even to this day men point out foundations of a house of Rhea and a cypress grove which has been consecrated to her from ancient times. The Titanes numbered six men and five women, being born, as certain writers of myths relate, of Ouranos and Ge, but according to others, of one of the Kouretes and Titaia, from whom as their mother they derive the name they have. The males were Kronos, Hyperion, Koios, Iapetos, Krios and Okeanos, and their sisters were Rhea, Themis, Mnemosyne, Phoibe and Tethys [he omits Theia]. Each one of them was the discover of things of benefit to mankind, and because of the benefaction they conferred upon all men they were accorded honours and everlasting fame.” –Diodorus Siculus 5.66.1

RE: "I have commented in the past about the lack of Greek myths dealing with the Minoan phase of Crete (ie. before Thera's caldera collapsed around 1470 BC and sent a tsunami to destroy Crete."

According to the Bock saga, the Greek myths originated in the Baltic Sea area BEFORE the migrations to the Middle-earth Sea (Mediterranean) therefore before the so-called Minoans were in the ISLAND of Crete. Previously they were in the "land " of Crete, which was situated on the south side of the Baltic Sea. After Thera they migrated to Delos (due north) and to the Siwa Oasis (due south).

A few months ago the New York Times Science section had an article on the newly discovered traces of the paths of the ash-drift from Thera. It clearly delineates Delos area and Siwa area as being at JUST the edge of the ash-drift!

Here's a good example.

Egyptian Zodiacal Cycle=1,460 years

Chaldean Lunar Cycle= 1,805 years

1805-1460=345 years difference.

9000 years=9 x 345=3105 years

9600-3105=6495 bC.