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Author Topic:   [R] Tribes of Atlantis II [R]
Riven
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posted 03-27-2005 02:52     Click Here to See the Profile for Riven     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sicilian History

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


An Abbreviated Chronology

8000 BC
Unknown occupiers The discovery of the Grotta dell'Uzzo in north western Sicily between Capo San Vito and Scopello in 1975. It appears to be about 10,000 years old based on radiocarbon dating. Archeologists found implements similar to those found in the Cala dei Genovese grotto on the island of Lévanzo. (Spoto, Sicilia Antica)

7000 BC
Unknown occupiers Earliest traces of humans found in the Addaura Caves on Monte Pellegrino near present day Palermo and in the Grotto Cala dei Genovesi on the island of Lévanzo.

6000 BC
Sicans Sicans arrive on the island. They are village-dwellers and farmers. Chief settlement was Sant' Angelo Muxaro near Agrigento. Here's a pie chart that graphically depicts the time from 6,000 BC to the present and relates the time period to the occupying power.

1400 BC
Sikels First known occurrence of Sikels, who probably migrated from or through Italy. They lived in fortified hill towns and left large necropolises. They are said to have co-existed peacefully with the Sicans although they appear to have displaced the Sicans in the eastern part of Sicily.

1200 BC
Elymians The Elymians settled in the western Sicily, in Eryx, Segesta, and Entella. Possibly descendents of the Trojans. All traces disappear after Hellenization of the island.

1000 BC
Phoenicians The Phoenicians settled along the coasts of Sicily. After the arrival of the Greeks, they withdrew to Motya, Solus, and Panormos, current day Palermo.
814 BC Carthage The Phoenicians establish the city of Carthage on the coast of Tunisia.

800 BC
Greeks and
Carthaginians Both established settlements on the island. The Greeks eventually go as far west as Himera on the north coast and Agrigento on the south coast. The Carthaginieans maintain control of western Sicily including Palermo.

500 BC
Greeks The leading Greek city, Syracuse, established control over the other Greek colonies of Agrigento, Gela, Catania, Himera, and Messina.

480 BC
Greeks Gelon, tyrant of Syracuse, defeats general Hamilcar at Himera in 480 BC, bringing Carthaginian eastward expansion in Sicily to an end.

452 BC
Greeks An unsuccessful rebellion of the Sikels in southeastern Sicily, led by their chief Ducetius.

400 BC
Carthaginians Carthage maintains control of the western half of the island including Palermo.

264 BC
Romans The Romans intervene against the Carthaginians in Sicily, precipitating the First Punic War (264-241 BC). (Punic, Poenicus or Phoenician.) After the Roman victory and the death of Hiero II of Syracuse, Rome gained control of most of the island. They exploited the island economically. Sicily became known as the Breadbasket of Rome.
http://www.dieli.net/SicilyPage/History/SicilianHist.html#piechart

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Riven
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posted 03-27-2005 05:01     Click Here to See the Profile for Riven     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oxyrhynchus: A City and its Texts
http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/VExhibition/vexhframe_hi.htm

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Riven
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posted 03-30-2005 01:16     Click Here to See the Profile for Riven     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so far this is amusing.

Why is it so hard to find a online copy of Callimachus Aetia?

Search Perseus Tufts and I get this. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Hdt%2e+6%2e109

CIX. The Athenian generals were of divided opinion, some advocating not fighting because they were too few to attack the army of the Medes; others, including Miltiades, advocating fighting. [2] Thus they were at odds, and the inferior plan prevailed. An eleventh man had a vote, chosen by lot to be polemarch1 of Athens, and by ancient custom the Athenians had made his vote of equal weight with the generals. Callimachus of Aphidnae was polemarch at this time. Miltiades approached him and said, [3] “Callimachus, it is now in your hands to enslave Athens or make her free, and thereby leave behind for all posterity a memorial such as not even Harmodius and Aristogeiton left. Now the Athenians have come to their greatest danger since they first came into being, and, if we surrender, it is clear what we will suffer when handed over to Hippias. But if the city prevails, it will take first place among Hellenic cities. [4] I will tell you how this can happen, and how the deciding voice on these matters has devolved upon you. The ten generals are of divided opinion, some urging to attack, others urging not to. [5] If we do not attack now, I expect that great strife will fall upon and shake the spirit of the Athenians, leading them to medize. But if we attack now, before anything unsound corrupts the Athenians, we can win the battle, if the gods are fair. [6] All this concerns and depends on you in this way: if you vote with me, your country will be free and your city the first in Hellas. But if you side with those eager to avoid battle, you will have the opposite to all the good things I enumerated.”

So I search Aphidnae where Callimachus is from. This is different than the Callimachus who wrote Aetia at the library of Alexander.

And we find this. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0064%3Aid%3Daphidna

APHIDNA or APHIDNAE (Aphidna, Aphidnai: Eth. Aphidnaios), one of the twelve ancient towns of Attica (Strab. ix. p. 397), is celebrated in the mythical period as the place where Theseus deposited Helen, entrusting her to the care of his friend Aphidnus. When the Dioscuri invaded Attica in search of their sister, the inhabitants of Deceleia informed the Lacedaemonians where Helen was concealed, and showed them the way to Aphidna. The Dioscuri thereupon took the town, and carried off their sister. (Herod. ix. 73; Died. iv. 63; Plut. Thes. 32; Paus. i. 17. § 5, 41. § 3.) We learn, from a decree quoted by Demosthenes (de Coron. p. 238), that Aphidna was, in his time, a fortified town, and at a greater distance than 120 stadia from Athens. As an Attic demus, it belonged in succession to the tribes Aeantis (Plut. Quaest. Symp. i. 10; Harpocrat. s. v. Thurgônidai), Leontis (Steph. B.; Harpocrat. l. c.), Ptolemais (Hesych.), and Hadrianis (Böckh, Corp. Inscr. 275).

Leake, following Finlay, places Aphidna between Deceleia and Rhamnus, in the upper valley of the river Marathon, and supposes it to have stood on a strong and conspicuous height named Kotróni, upon which are considerable remains indicating the site of a fortified demus. Its distance from Athens is about 16 miles, half as much from Marathon, and something less from Deceleia. (Leake, Demi of Attica, p. 19, seq.)

Tribes of Aeantis.

How Bizarre.

[This message has been edited by Riven (edited 03-30-2005).]

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Riven
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posted 03-30-2005 02:01     Click Here to See the Profile for Riven     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(Rhamnous). Now Obrio Kastro; a demus in Attica, belonging to the tribe Aeantis, which derived its name from the rhamnos, a kind of prickly shrub. Rhamnus was situated on a small rocky peninsula on the east coast of Attica, sixty stadia from Marathon. It possessed a celebrated temple of Nemesis, who is hence called by the Latin poets Rhamnusia dea or virgo (Catull. lxvi. 71; Ovid, Trist. v. 819). A colossal statue of the goddess in this temple was the work of Agoracritus, the pupil of Phidias (Strabo, p. 396), or possibly by Phidias himself (Pausan. i. 33, 2). Remains of the temple still exist.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0062&query=head%3D%239439&word=Aeantis

Oenoë
(Oinoê). (1) A deme of Attica belonging to the tribe Hippothoöntis, near the frontier of Boeotia ( Herod.v. 74).

(2) A deme of Attica, near Marathon, belonging to the tribe Aeantis.

(3) A town of Argolis, west of Argos. Here the Argives and Athenians defeated the Lacedaemonians, B.C. 388.

(4) A town of Elis.

(5) A town in the island of Icaria.

(6) A fortress of the Corinthians on the Gulf of Corinth.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0062&query=head%3D%237686&word=Aeantis

Now look at this amazing photo viewing Mt.Pentelikon in Attica to the NorthWest.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/image?lookup=Perseus:image:1987.09.0172

Try not to laugh but, doesn't that look like Atlantis with it's rings and the plain with the irrigation canals?

Did the ancient Greeks actually preserve the story without knowing it?
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/image?lookup=Perseus:image:1994.01.0002

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Riven
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posted 03-30-2005 02:37     Click Here to See the Profile for Riven     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At Megara, near Eleusis, there was three Temples of Athena: one on the top of the citadel, the other of Athena Victory and the third of Athena Aeantis (Ajacian). At the Temple on the top of the citadel there was a gilt image except the face, hands and feet which were made of ivory. At the Temple of Athena Aeantis (Ajacian) there was a statue of Athena made by Ajax.
Pausanias reports: On the top of the citadel is built a temple of Athena, with an image gilt except the hands and feet; these and the face are of ivory. There is another sanctuary built here, of Athena Victory, and yet a third of Athena Aeantis (Ajacian). About the last the Megarian guides have omitted to record anything, but I will write what I take to be the facts. Telamon the son of Aeacus married Periboea the daughter of Alcathous; so my opinion is that Ajax, who succeeded to the throne of Alcathous, made the statue of Athena. (Paus. 1.42.4
http://www.goddess-athena.org/Encyclopedia/Athena/Images.htm

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Riven
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posted 03-30-2005 02:54     Click Here to See the Profile for Riven     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tegea

The ancient image of Athena Alea was carried away by the Roman emperor Augustus to his Forum.
Pausanias reports: The ancient image of Athena Alea, and with it the tusks of the Calydonian boar, were carried away by the Roman emperor Augustus after his defeat of Antonius and his allies, among whom were all the Arcadians except the Mantineans. (Paus. 8.46.1) The image of Athena Alea at Rome is as you enter the Forum made by Augustus. (Paus. 8.46.4)
The new image of Athena was made throughout of ivory.
Pausanias reports: Here then it has been set up, made throughout of ivory, the work of Endoeus. Those in charge of the curiosities say that one of the boar's tusks has broken off; the remaining one is kept in the gardens of the emperor, in a sanctuary of Dionysus, and is about half a fathom long. (Paus. 8.46.5)
The present image at Tegea was brought from the parish of Manthurenses, and among them it had the surname of Hippia (Goddess of Horses). According to their account, when the battle of the Gods and giants took place the Goddess drove the chariot and horses against Enceladus. Yet this Goddess too has come to receive thename of Alea among the Greeks generally and the Peloponnesians themselves. On one side of the image of Athena stands Asclepius, on the other Health, works of Scopas of Paros in Pentelic marble. (Paus. 8.47.1)
http://www.goddess-athena.org/Encyclopedia/Athena/Images.htm

[This message has been edited by Riven (edited 03-30-2005).]

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eren
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posted 03-30-2005 14:35     Click Here to See the Profile for eren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fellows,

I think you would like to see this picture from Bademlitepe excavation dated to 2600-2700 BC near to Troy:

The last picture:
A circular wall next to an other collapsed probably during a earth-quake. http://www.aydingun.com/S/TH/Yeni.htm http://www.aydingun.com/S/TH/Yeni.htm
A small info: http://www.aydingun.com/TH.htm http://www.aydingun.com/TH.htm

Pay attention on Ikiztepe too from 4500 BC.

İkiztepe in Black Sea cost of Turkey is not new but it is the only excavation still carried out in this area once believed having no history beyond first millennium BC. There, in small mound named İkiztepe (literal translation means twin-hills) a very interesting society emerged dating back to 4300 BC. They had a fully developed metal industry (The warehouse of Samsun's museum where all the artifacts reside is full of bronze weapons), widespread textile industry, and a very high degree of medical practices. Everything suddenly stops around 1700 BC, when less than 200 km south a fully developed Hittite Empire comes out to the scene.
see the pictures http://www.aydingun.com/S/TH/ikiz.htm http://www.aydingun.com/S/TH/ikiz.htm

See Göbeklitepe from 9000-11000BC too, it is interesting, but I believe we should take them separate

[This message has been edited by eren (edited 03-30-2005).]

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eren
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posted 03-31-2005 14:22     Click Here to See the Profile for eren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are three towns called Ereğli in Turkey. The name Ereğli became Ereğli from Heraklia.
One of these towns is in today's Konya in middle Anatolia very close to Hittite settlements and Çatalhöyük.
The second one is in Zonguldak where is in Black Sea coast
And the last one is in Marmara Sea region, close to Silivri.

Hittite, Hatties and Hurris (Horites) by the way are very closely related, would I go too far if I would think they might be late Atlantean tribes, moreover Hittite Kingdom, might be an Atlantean Kingdom ?

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eren
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posted 03-31-2005 18:27     Click Here to See the Profile for eren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The interesting thing is, by local archeolog Prof.Dr.Ömer Bilgi,who leads the Ikiztepe excavation, a new claim came out.

According to the similarities of the artifacts and developped culture, he thought Hittites didn't come in to Anatolia from outside but they left their land in Ikiztepe and moved to middle Anatolia.

A clear revelation of Hittites in one of their tablet seems supporting this theory. In this tablet they say:

"We come from the land where the sun rises from the sea".

But still,was there their first settlement?
Ikiztepe's history, for now streches out to 4500BC but the tumulus has deeper stages. As each stage can date almost to 1000 years before, wouldn't it be close to the last flood?

[This message has been edited by eren (edited 03-31-2005).]

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eren
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posted 03-31-2005 19:10     Click Here to See the Profile for eren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A very interesting detail that I found right now about İkiztepe:
In the excavation at the eastern part of Ikiztepe a gold coin with writings on dated to the first quarter of 3000BC is found in a tomb.

By the way, have you ever paid attention to the similarity of Aaetes of Homer and Hatties?

As we know for sure now, Hittites as Torah called them, are actually Hatties of middle Anatolia according to their records and Assyrian records.
The name Hittites has never been accepted as their name in Anatolia. In Turkish they are still called as Eti (in singular form, say Aetie) or let's say Etis (plural in English, say Aeties).
Hatties are called a Khetas in Egyptian records and Hattis in Assyrian records.

Circe in the other hand, is clearly an Anatolian Godess, mother earth, where Anatolia takes it's name from. It is often thought how that Cybele cult reached to Italy. What if it didn't?

What if Aaetes and Circe of Homer hasn't move to somewhere like Italy from where they belong actually, wouldn't Aiolos island be around Anatolia and the rocky canal from Dardanelles towards Bosphorus perhaps?

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Riven
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posted 04-01-2005 01:37     Click Here to See the Profile for Riven     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Reference Map of Attica. Plan of Thermopylae, 480 B.C. Inset: Harbors of Athens. From The Historical Atlas by William R. Shepherd, 1923.(500K)

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/attica_shepherd_p16.jpg


The location of this photo at the base of Mt.Parnes overlooking to NW of MT.Penteklion;
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/image?lookup=Perseus:image:1987.09.0172

As best as I can see so far is Paeonidae, mighty close to Poseidon. Or it could be Oeum.

These would have formed near the Aeantis Tribes of Attica.

Oddly enough, the Aeantis Tribes WERE the FOREMOST warriors of that time(500.bC) who won the greatest BATTLE.

So far I don't know what those rings are that are almost EXACTLY as those of Atlantis.

It LOOKS like a wise irrigation system for a farmer but it is still quite mysterious as is the lower square stone base in the left corner with a strange pillar type stand in front of it.

Would you say those were watermarks on the other side of the PLAIN or just erosions of wind?

Paeonidae is roughly 7-9 miles from the Eleusian Gulf and NEAR the center of the plain also.

Above it lies Lepsydrium.

Trinemia,east about 4 miles would be the center.

The Acharnae makes up this region.

South would face the region of Agrae,Athens.

Notice the main district names of that time.

PEDIAS for Athens.

DIACRIA North to Oropus.

PARALIA far South to Mt.Laurium.

By the island of SALAMIS there's an Atalante Island.

The impression I get is that the people in that time of 500.bC were so greatly influenced by the Atlantis legend brought back by Solon, so much so, that they actually preserved the legend, unknown to most Greeks.

Athens, Athena, Atalante, Aeantis, Amphiale,Amphitrope,Amphiaraeum,Athmonum, Aexonides, Axenia, Elaeussa, Eleusis.


Strabo

20 Demetrius of Calatis, in his account of all the earthquakes that have ever occurred throughout all Greece, says that the greater part of the Lichades Islands and of Cenaeum was engulfed; the hot springs at Aedepsus and Thermopylae, after having ceased to flow for three days, began to flow afresh, and those at Aedepsus broke forth also at another source; at Oreus the wall next to the sea and about seven hundred of the houses collapsed; and as for Echinus and Phalara and Heracleia in Trachis, not only was a considerable portion of them thrown down, but the settlement of Phalara was overturned, ground and all. And, says he, something quite similar happened to the people of Lamia and of Larissa; and Scarphia, also, was flung up, foundations and all, and no fewer than seventeen hundred human beings were engulfed, and over half as many Thronians; again, a triple-headed wave rose up, one part of which was carried in the direction of Tarphe and Thronium, another part to Thermopylae, and the rest into the plain as far as Daphnus in Phocis; fountains of rivers were dried up for a number of days, and the Sphercheius changed its course and made the roadways navigable, and the Boagrius was carried down a different ravine, and also many sections of Alope, Cynus, and Opus were seriously damaged, and Oeum, the castle above Opus, was laid in utter ruin, and a part of the wall of Elateia was broken down, and at Alponus, during the celebration of the Thesmophoria, twenty-five girls ran up into one of the towers at the harbour to get a view, the tower fell, and they themselves fell with it into the sea. And they say, also, of the Atalanta near Euboea that its middle portions, because they had been rent asunder, got a ship-canal through the rent, and that some of the plains were overflowed even as far as twenty stadia, and that a trireme was lifted out of the docks and cast over the wall.
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Strabo/1C*.html

Time to go back to Delos and sit beside Critias.

Thanks for those posts on Anatolia eren, there is much to be discovered there that one day scientists will realize that those regions are older than the levant in terms of civilizations.

I am noticing a pattern of Neological(Dark) earth soils according to their dating that produced older Tribes and cultural habitats as compared to lighter earth colors.

Neolithicaly or Paleolithicaly.

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atalante
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posted 04-01-2005 08:47     Click Here to See the Profile for atalante     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Riven,

You said the magic phrases: two Atalante Islands.

One is the Atalante Island southwest from Athens, next to Solon's homeland Salamis.

But the Atalante Island which Strabo discussed is a different Atalante Island, north of Athens.

Any discussion about subliminal memories in propagating Critias's Atlantis story should focus on the NORTHERN Atalante Island, where forts and warships were destroyed: about one year before a houseparty which is the setting for the Critias dialog, 426BC.

The northern Atalante Island "rose from the sea", augmented by debris, when a tsunami destroyed a fort and warships nearby, and washed away some land which previously connected Atalante Island to the mainland.

quote from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/greeks/atlantis_03.shtml

The story was written during a remarkable golden age of observation and discourse about the natural world. Through the writings of contemporary scholars like Herodotus, Thucydides, Aristotle and Callisthenes, historical seismologists have been able to piece together a picture of earthquakes affecting Greece at this time. That picture reveals that earthquakes struck with a frequency and ferociousness which far exceeds anything modern records have documented in recent centuries. Perhaps more significantly, several of these earthquakes assumed great political and cultural importance.

The first earthquake of 'epoch-making importance' struck Sparta in 469-464 BC, occurring at a time when the balance of power between Sparta and Athens was in a delicate state. It took Sparta by surprise, killing more than 20,000 Spartans and immediately leading to internal and external uprisings by its subject peoples. The result was the so-called 'earthquake war' between the Spartans and their neighbours, during which Sparta's refusal to accept help from Athens resulted in increased hostilities between them. These hostilities festered for decades, culminating in 431 BC with the start of the Peloponnesian Wars, a 25-year bloody civil war between Sparta and her allies and Athens and her allies.

Shortly after the start of the Peloponnesian War and the third in a series of epidemics that ravaged Athens, the summer of 426 BC brought one of the most disastrous earthquakes recorded in the ancient sources. Contemporary reporters tell of widespread building collapse, destruction caused by seismic sea-waves (tsunamis) and thousands of victims. Although its effects were concentrated north of Athens, near modern-day Lamia, there were wider ramifications. A Spartan army camped 100km west of Athens at the Isthmus of Corinth were poised to attack the city, but numerous violent earthquakes forced them to flee home. Meanwhile the seismic sea-wave wreaked havoc along much of the coast north of Athens, including an island called Atalante where an Athenian fort and several warships were destroyed. Accounts by later writers such as Diodorus Siculus (first century BC) and Strabo (first century AD) actually report that the island of Atalante was created as a consequence of the seismic sea wave. The high death toll, widespread damage and dramatic coastline changes would no doubt have exacerbated the tense situation endured by an Athens besieged by war and epidemics.
endquote

[This message has been edited by atalante (edited 04-01-2005).]

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