2. The Racial Makeup of the Original Egyptians
By John Tiffany

(Summary - Excerpt

Scientists have also looked into the racial makeup of the ancient Egyptians. Relying on skulls, but not blood groupings or DNA, Loring Brace, an anthropologist at the University of Michigan, states that the ancient Egyptians were closer, at least head-wise, to Germans and Danes than they were to Somalis, Ethiopians, Nubians or Berbers. He dismisses the term “race” and then revives it disguised as the politically correct term “cluster.” There are several of these; the two of most interest to him happen to be the “European” and the “African.” The Egyptians, according to his findings, definitely belong with the former.

Not only were the ancient Egyptians not black, their nearest relatives are Europeans: “It is obvious that both the predynastic and late dynastic Egyptians are more closely related to the European cluster than they are to any of the other major regional clusters in the world,” says Brace. The dean of African-American classicists, Frank Snowden, advises afrocentrists to give up Egypt and focus on Nubia as the first great black civilization. Brace’s findings would deny even this concession. Nubians, like the Egyptians, are not part of the “African” head cluster.

Thus it is seen in all the evidence that the ancient Egyptians, as well as most of the more recent ruling classes of Egypt, were not black but white.
(Realy?!)

Further to Tlas.

Weneg

After Ninetjer something happened to the
Egyptian society that made many centralised
functions collapse or decline. During this
period of unrest a few names pop up on
scanty fragments and among them a king
called Weneg. He was probably the pharaoh
preceding Ninetjer at least in Lower Egypt,
because a division of the country for a
short period cant be excluded. The Turin
Canon has an entry with an unreadable name
possibly to be his with no figure of his
regin but one for his age: 54 years.

His Horus-name (in a serek) is not known,
but remaining form are found in a dozen
inscriptions, most of them from Sakkara.
Though his reign probably was a very short
one (perhaps not more then a couple of
years) his name is recorded in later king
lists like from the temple in Abydos and the Sakkara list

This indicates that
despite the lack of earthly remains he
probably had a position in the legends for
later generations, when they were
commemorating the pharaohs from the passed.
The scribes at that time misread his
flower-sign (to be read: WNG) and replaced
it with a papyrus plant making the sound:
Wadj-nes, meaning "fresh of tongue". This
was translated into Greek language
(ougot-las) by Manetho, who gave the king
the name Tlas. In other words - a corruption on more than one occasion during the flow of time.
Because he had a very short reign we can
hardly expect that his tomb is a mass of
underground galleries like some of his
predecessors. If he hasn't taken over an
older construction and made it his own we
can look for a monument of more modest size, maybe a mastaba of substance.

The area where to look for his tomb is
probably around the other galleries east of
the pyramid of king Sekhemhkhet. This
monument lies where the topography is
unsuitable.
A good guess might be that the area to the
east already was occupied by superstructures (mastaba-like?) from dynasty 2 tombs, and that these were removed in later times.
The substructures should then still be
detectable, but this place has not been
properly investigated. There are candidates
to be his tomb and in one mastaba (S3014)
has even Weneg's name been found.
http://www.nemo.nu/ibisportal/0egyptintro/2egypt/index.htm

Throughout most of its pre-dynastic history Egypt encompassed a multiplicity of settlements which gradually became small tribal kingdoms. These kingdoms evolved into two loosely confederated states: one encompassed the Nile valley up to the Delta (with the Naqada dominating) with Hierakonpolis as its capital, represented by the vulture goddess Nekhbet and the White Crown (hedjet); the other encompassed the Delta, with Buto as its capital and was represented by the cobra goddess Wadjet of Buto and the Red Crown (deshret). The two lands could also be represented as the combined Land of the Two Ladies (Nekhbet and Wadjet) and by the combined Double Crown (shmty). Horus (gd) was the son of the goddess Hathor and the god of Hierakonpolis in upper Egypt. The two kingdoms vied for power over all the land of Egypt. This struggle led to the victory of the south and the unification of the Two Lands in approx. 3100BC under the command of Menes who is also sometimes known as Narmer. This was the beginning of the dynastic period of the Pharaohs.

http://home.flash.net/~hoselton/deadsea/timeline.htm

I visited the Tucson Gem and Mineral show last week. In my opinion, the Russians are marketing the prettiest stone material, (Clinochlore or Seraphinite). This is supposed to be a powerful healing stone. Here are some pictures of Seraphinite. http://www.mineralminers.com/html/clijlry.stm

This string of oases played a prominent role in the story Herodotus tells about Cambysses in Egypt. The ancient Egyptians told Cambysses that he could reach the Pillars of Hercules by travelling the route which passes through most of these oases. Unfortunately for Cambysses, his army was wiped out in a desert sandstorm.

Ash was originally a pre-dynastic phenomenon in Libya, a byproduct of increasing aridity in the Sahara desert. He provided a role model among Libyans which Menes eventually imitated (i.e. forming a "patriarchal" army to defend, support, and unify his people). Ash's Libyan peoples made their strongest effort to integrate themselves into the Nile valley during the reign of Seth-Peribsen, who temporarily established a third trade route radiating out from Abydos and going through Libya. Each trade route extended to a matriarchal society. The two traditional trade routes out of Abydos led to Hathor in the Sinai, and to Tefnut in Sudan. Thus Peribsen was trying to convert Egypt into a "3 Great Ladies" paradigm, by supporting a new trade route through Ash's Libyan oases. Here is a link which gives many details about Seth-Peribsen. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/peribsen.htm

However Khasekhemui, who was the next King after Peribsen, reverted to the traditional "2 Great Ladies" format. Khasekhemui bragged about killing roughly 40,000 unfriendly people in the western Nile Delta. After that fiasco, the remainder of Ash's people disappeared from Old Kingdom Egypt, took a path of lesser resistance ca 2700 BC, and migrated west. Critas calls them the Atlantean kingdom of Azaes. During the Sea Peoples era they seem to have been known by a New Kingdom name as the Weshesh. Herodotus found their descendents ca. 450 BC, and named them as the Auseans.

According to Egyptian myths, Ash was the god who put water into the Libyan Oases.
So Herodotus is likely to have been referring to Ash when Herodotus claimed that the Greek prototype for Poseidon came from Libya (whereas the other Greek deities came from Egypt).

Here is a link which describes the Dakhla oasis in western Egypt. The link points out that 11 million gallons of water per day bubbles up from artesian springs in the Dakla oasis. http://www.safariegypt.com/egypt_safari/dakhla_oasis/geography.htm
This underground water is being transported north from tropical Sudan through a porous limestone deposit that is 700 meters, or 2300 feet thick. If the Libyan god Ash (a.k.a. Poseidon) installed the limestone plumbing that feeds underground water into Dakhla, then he must have been a very powerful god.

By 2500 BC it was recognized that, during Egypt's early Naqada culture, Ash had originally been one of the patron gods for the "city of gold", Nubty in hieroglyphics (or Ombos, as translated into Greek). http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/naqada.htm

The Greek mythical genealogies suggest a date for the river god Inachus around 1852-1802 BC, based the Eusebius material which you quoted. In the following paragraphs, I will explain why this involves a seriously flawed idea. Fortunately, Manetho's Tlas when correlated to Egypt's second dynasty king Weneg (ca 2700 BC), can be recommended as an alternate date for Inachus.

Rivers do not have birthdays. So why would a river be connected to a specific date around 1800 BC? This line of reasoning demonstrates that whoever put together this mythical genealogy for Inachus wanted to chop off, and/or suppress, any farther discussion beyond that magic date.

Fortunately, a more comprehensive viewpoint can be reached by studying the myths about Argus 1.
http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Argus1.html

I find it impressive that Carlos Parada lists 5 mutually incompatible versions for the parents of Argus 1. And yet the related word Argolid, when used collectively, became a synonym for all of the Greek people.

One of the 5 versions of Argus-1's parents makes him an autochthon (=son of Gaia alone).
But a second version makes Argus-1 the son of the river Inachus; and this is what deserves scrutiny.

This suggests that Argus-1 was originally known as either the father or brother of Io. There are several myths about conflict with Argus-1 when the Hellenes arrive. Hera plucked out the eyes of Argus-1 and gave them to her pet, the peacock. Poseidon dried up the river water in the homestead of Argus-1's father (the river Inachus). His descendent Argus-5, must have subserviently accepted the incoming Hellenes because Argus-5 was called a "son of Zeus". The classical mythographers found it "politically correct" to allow the region of the Argolid to be named after Argus-5, because this concealed the fact that the region had traditionally been named after the more famous Argus-1, who was pre-Hellenic. The classical Greek myths explain that Hera assigned Argus-1 to be a shepherd, or chaperone, for the young woman named Io after Hera put a curse on Io.

All of the above considerations indicate that there was a pre-Hellenic culture in the Argolid, which was purposely degraded in the myths about Hera and Zeus, who were comparative latecomers to the Argolid. The 100 eyes of Argus-1 are a metaphorical match to several other "hundred handed" creatures which Gaia created in classical Greek myths.

The cult of Hera probably arrived in the Peloponnese at the time of Phoroneus, who is called the "first man to build a temple for Hera" in classical Greek myths. The chronology of Eusebius assigns a date of 1802 BC to Phoroneus. This synchronizes with the matriarchal Middle Minoan phase of Crete.

Then the cult of Zeus seems to have arrived around 1450 BC when Hellenes stole Europa from the proto-Phoenicians and took her to Crete. Archaeology has shown that the Phoenician city of Ugarit was destroyed by either an earthquake or a tsunami in the 15th century BC. Therefore a natural disaster in proto-Phoenicia may have synchronized with the ascent of the Patriarchal Hellenes and their supreme god Zeus.

With these concepts and dates in mind, the pre-Hellenic versions of Inachus and Argus-1 should belong to an era that occurred BEFORE the arrival of Phoroneus in 1802 BC. As I mentioned previously, this genealogy (beginning with a river) was put together as a form of propaganda, to avoid discussions about the time before 1852 BC. Therefore, most likely, both Argus-1 and Inachus go back much earlier than 1852 BC in the region of the Argolid.

Modern researchers are able to correlate Egypt's 2nd dynasty king Weneg ca 2700 BC, with a corresponding king named Tlas in Manetho's king list for the second Dynasty.

There is considerable merit to a suggestion that Inachus/(Weneg) fits into the general pre-Hellenic era of the Peloponese. Chronologicly, this era correlates to the Cyclades culture, as known in archaeology. And a bronze age city at Helike has been dated to ca 2300 BC, which correlates to the end of Egypt's Old Kingdom.

Greek myths assign this commerce function to the god Hermes, who was born in the Peloponese to a daughter of Atlas/(= Manetho's Tlas). Classical writers used the name Sea of Adras to describe the eastern half of the Mediterranean Sea, i.e. the part that is east of the Sicily land bridge. Modern geography has preserved a shrunken form of this concept in the so-called Adriatic Sea.

So Tlas, or Adras, or Atlas (literally the one who "did not endure") is a logical way to refer to some people who pioneered sailing in the Mediterranean region.

Carlos Parada's website indicates that the Peloponnese was named the "Apian peninsula" before Pelops arrived. If this was a reference to the Apis bulls of Egypt, then it might be another hint about Egyptian presence in the era of Tlas/Atlas/Adras.

Think about this.

Nome Name: Nome 19: Royal child [lower nome (Prince of the North)
Nome Symbol: sitting priest / Lion
White Chapel Deity:
Major Deities Wadjyt
City(s):/Temples: Imet (Arabic Nebesha)/Wadjyt

Djanet (Greek Tanis)/Amun, Mut and Khonsu

I think Wedjahor-resne is trying to tell us something.

As above so below. 1+9=10
The Gods and planets line up.

Amun-Sun
Mut-Earth
Khonsu-Moon
www.touregypt.net/featurestories/wadjeta.htm

Geb appoints Heru who is the firstborn Son of his Son.

Geb's words to the Nine Neteru: "To the son of my son, Heru, the Jackal of Upper Chem --- Geb's words to the Nine Neteru: "The firstborn, Heru, the Opener-of-the-ways." Geb's words to the Nine Neteru: "The son who was born --- Heru, on the Birthday of the Opener-of-the-ways."

He is the uniter of this land, proclaimed in the great name: Ta-tenen, South-of-his-Wall,

Seth and Heru are united in the House of Ptah the "balance of the two lands, Upper and Lower Khem.

This is the land ------the burial of Ausar in the House of Sokar

He entered the hidden portals in the glory of the lords of eternity]. -------. [Thus Ausar came into] the earth at the royal fortress, to the north of [the land to which he had come. And his son Heru arose as king of Upper Chem, arose as king of Lower Chem, in the embrace of his father Ausar and of the gods in front of him and behind him.]

Ptah-Nun, the father who [made] Atum.
Ptah-Naunet, the mother who bore Atum.

Thus it is said of Ptah: "He who made all and created the gods." And he is Ta-tenen, who gave birth to the gods,

Auset)Isis and Nebt-het)Nephthys looked out, beheld him, and attended to him. Heru quickly commanded Auset and Nebt-het to grasp Ausar and prevent his drowning (i.e., submerging). They heeded in time and brought him to land. He entered the hidden portals in the glory of the lords of eternity, in the steps of him who rises in the horizon, on the ways of Re the Great Throne. He entered the palace and joined the gods of Ta-tenen Ptah, lord of years.

Thus Ausar came into the earth at the Royal Fortress, to the north of the land to which he had come. his son Heru arose as king of Upper Chem, arose as king of Lower Chem,

Nine Gods = Nine Neteru
Thoth = Tehuti
Egypt = Chem, Kemet
Horus = Heru, Hru
Osiris = Ausar, Asr
Nephthys = Nebt-Het
Isis = Auset, Ast

Geb says to the nine gods, to the son of my son, Heru)Horus. So Gebs son is Ausar,Osiris. He also calls him the Jackal of upper Khem which also relates to Seth. Heru)Horus is the "opener of the ways" or in other words, the constitution of the unification of Egypt. Heru was in Lower Egypt with Isis trying to save their father from drowning.

It is interesting that they also state that "they heeded in time" meaning the "Survival of Osiris" which contradicts his death by Seth and being scattered into 14 pieces. The pieces must mean the takeover of Memphis and Lower Egypt's 14 nomes that Seth took over, symbolic of the Narmer Palette and the unification of Egypt.

We see that Osiris went into the "hidden portals" which obviously means the "Halls to Amenti" and can also be verified by Osiris taking the "STEPS" of him who rises in the horizon-Ra the Sun or Sirius to the East which sets in the West symbolizing the way to Amenti, the Westward lands/path, or where the Gods of "TA-TENEN reign. In the Glory of the Lords of eternity would mean either a temple entrance, or more specificaly, a Pyramid descent into the tunnels as we know.

TA-TENEN is strangely close to AT-LANTIS.

Generally, as we see in many Egyptian to Greek translations, which is why I post their Egyptian/Greek names, that there really wasn't much difference between the words other than their true meaning which in case resulted in a more different Greek translation. Generally, the languages were more or less "similiar". The main reason for this is because of the Egyptian Pharaohs colonizing Greece around 2000 bC where we see kings like Ptolemy or Apis there.

In my previous post on the 19th nome of the Royal Child we saw how Djanet translated to TANIS, another word close to ATLANTIS.

The T being common to Dj. Sort of like ADjlanDJet. Again TA-TENEN sort of as DJ-DJanen.

It seems that this backbone piece of Ptah known as Djet was also a backbone to Atlantis or Ta-Tenen where the Gods of Ptah first ruled.

Notice also that Thoth is called Te-huti referring to his descent from TA-Tenen or Atlantis.

We also see that Ausar )Osiris, went back home to his Royal Fortress, NORTH of the land "WHICH HE HAD COME" or, where he was born.

Atalante and myself have discussed this Fortress in the westward lands which Atalante linked also as the Fortress of GEB, the father of Osiris.

Though it is but an idea, we may finally know the Egyptian name of Atlantis as TA-TENEN.

We also see the early rise of the Cobra Goddess Wadjet or "Protector of the Papyrus" (Atalantes grass regions) which later became symbolic to the titles and rituals of the Resne-Priests of Memphis and Wedjahor-Resne, the MAIN PRIEST who was granted the preservation of the Temple of Neith and Memphis by King Darius of Perseopolis.

We could even relate Wadjet to ATHENA who also protected Kings such as Zeus.

Now we need to balance the scales of Anubis with the two Ostrich feathers of Djet that match, or the True Twins.

[This message has been edited by Riven (edited 02-12-2005).]

Here is an interesting link: http://www.ancient-egypt.org/kings/0102_aha/naqada_label.html

Father=Aita (Basque) Patra /Atta (Greek) Pater(Latin) it(Egyptian)

We can also relate the old Greek word of ATE as ruined land.

Atlas ( Fatherson, raiser of sky )
Nw Africa =Morocco ,Algeria (Aterians, Azilians,Atalantes )

Gadeirus ( Green body of rivers )

Iberia= Basque, Celtic , Portugal, British isles, Hyperborean Europe.

Ampheres (to rest, at both sides) Amphiarus Taranto>Otranto
Italy, Sicily, Sardinia, Tyrrhenia, (Etruscans,Appennines) Malta ( Tarxien >Tarshin )

Evaemon ( fortunate woman ) Athena / Neith

Tunisia, Libya ( Capsians, Qadan, Maxyan, Lotophagi ) Lake Tritonis/Athena

Mneseus ( memory of a great warrior, God, Zeus ) ( from a Trojan )
Crete ( Minos, Amnisus ) Phaesteus and Aghia-Triada=Mesara Plain

Autochthon ( earthborn ) Phoroneus, Prometheus.
Peleponnesia, Sicyon, Argo Attica, Thracia, Cyclades,.(Hellenic Greece)

Elassipus ( horse riding, rulers )
Anatolia ( Phrygia, Troy,Ionia, Caria, Ephaesus, Ecbatana )

Mestor ( NNE middle. Suitor )
Phoenicia, Syria ( Byblos, Tyre )

Azaes (Heat or Ashened one)
Mauretania ( Azas, Azamor , Alata, GuAlata, Guanches)

Diaprepes Written Knowledge of God, ( highly distinguished )
Egypt, Nubia, Aetiopia. (AVILA=Africa/Kush)

Ancient Hunic alphabeth: http://fang.fa.gau.hu/~heves/runic.html

Ancient Turkmeni alphabeth; www.antalyaonline.net/futhark/FUTHP2E.

Fenno-Ugrian and Basque; http://www.antalyaonline.net/futhark/FUTHA3E.HTM

nbty-mn would mean King of Two Ladies (Lands) Not sure what specific Greek translation your looking for. Athena?Neith?

North Face

¡r kA nxt Htp Hr mAat nbty mnTw tAwy ?ak kmt Hr-n-nbw ? nTr n
xpri n-sw-bit mAat-mn-ra Ax mnw m iwnw st nHH m snt r sxntw
nt pt mn wAH r wbA n pr ra psDt Htp Hr ir.f sA ra ptH mri stXy n
bAw iwnw mri ra mi

South Face

¡r kA nxt dr xAst ?? nbty mn n mnw Dt nHH Hr-n-nbw sHtp ra m
mrwt.f n-sw-bit mAat-mn-ra Spsi n iwnw //// s wab n ra nb ////
nbw pt tA Hr rSw ? HSwt.f qAb Hr ir.tw f ir.n.f sA ra ptH mri stXy n
Hr (?) mri ra mi Dt

West Face

¡r kA n ra mAat mri nbty wafw(?) xAst dr mnTyw Hr-n-nbw ra mri rn.s
saA kA.f n-sw-bit mAat-mn-ra mH iwnw m txnw Hr wbn stwt ra pr Xr
baHi nfrw f nTrw m Xnm Hwt-aAt rSw ir.n.f sA ra ptH mri n stXy psDt
mri ? Hwt-aAt di anH

http://members.tripod.com/obeliscos_egipcios/polset1t_en.htm

North Face

Horus, Mighty bull, resting on Truth. Two ladies Menthu (God Hawk) two lands(?) Egypt Horus(?) of gold, Divine of Kephera, King of the upper and lower Egypt Maat-mn-Ra making monuments in Anu (heliopolis), eternal throne in similarity to the 4 pillars of the heavens signs lasting like the fore-court of the temple of the house of Ra, The company of the Gods are contented by what hath made the son of Ra Seti beloved of Ptah, beloved by bas (souls) of Anu (Heliopolis) like Ra.

South Face

Horus, Mighty bull, trampler on all foreign? countries. Two Ladies Stablisher of monuments for ever and for ever. Golden Horus satisfying Ra with its love. King of the upper and lower Egypt Maat-mn-Ra Noble, pure of Heliopolis / / / / for Ra lord / / / / the lords of the heaven and of Earth rejoice favoring the double of which they do for him, Son of Ra Seti beloved of Ptah beloved of Horus() like Ra eternally.

West Face

Horus, bull of Ra, beloved of Maat, Two Ladies (???) countries, vanquisher of Bedouins of Asia, Golden Horus, beloved of Ra, Its name making great his Ka. King of the upper and lower Egypt Maat-mn-Ra filleth Anu (Heliopolis) with obelisks, so that their rays may shine in the house of Ra flooding it of beauty. The Gods are united with rejoicing in the temple. Son of Ra Seti beloved of Ptah beloved of the Company of the Gods (???) temple to whom is given the life.

Here is a quote about "nbty mn" from my previous link: http://www.ancient-egypt.org/kings/0102_aha/naqada_label.html
Schott, on the other hand, did not interpret the rectangular sign within the booth as the name Menes, but as the verb "to remain". For him, the entire group translates to "The Two Ladies remain", which he interprets as the name of a shrine dedicated to the patron goddesses of Upper- and Lower Egypt.
endquote

And here is a more blatant explanation of nbty mn: http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/titles.htm
An ebony label from the Naqada tomb of Neith-hotep, possibly Aha’s mother, shows the serekh of Aha facing a tent-like shrine enclosing the signs nbty mn. Perhaps if this is not the name of a king, it was the name of a shrine instead—"the Two Ladies ENDURE".
endquote

Do you see now? The magic word is ENDURE.

"Females of Endurance".
"Females of Atlas"
The next word in this progression could be ......"ATLANTIS".

Except for one small detail, which creates the pun.
Literally Atlas is a negative form which means "NOT enduring".

Doctor of Geology and Mineralogy, professor Alexander Gorodnitsky has recently celebrated his 70th birthday. This is a world-known scientist from the Russian Institute of Oceanology. Alexander Gorodnitsky is also known in Russia as a poet and a song writer.

He took part in a lot of expeditions in various areas of the World Ocean, he explored the ocean at the depth of five kilometers in underwater vehicles. He was the first scientist in the world to calculate the lithosphere power. The professor published more than 260 scientific works, including eight studies about the geology and geophysics of the ocean floor

We have all necessary equipment at our disposal at the Oceanology Institute: we have underwater probes and vehicles, which allow to submerge to the depth of the ocean. We have already developed the project of the mission, freighted a ship, we have even obtained a permission from the UK. We just need $200,000 for the expedition, but Russian sponsors have refused to help us.

From the Russian Atlantology Researcher -Alexander Voronin President of Russian society on studying of the problems of Atlantis (ROIPA)

site about the Russia interest http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/10080_atlantis.html

The I letter I have put on line with the help of A. Voronin was to show what in Russia they have noted about and working on the furthering of public information on the Atlantis proofs and or issues within their own country, and in a friendly show of support to the Old World views of Atlantis compared to our New World views this has been put online for those to review about new leads in Atlantis Research. This communication has been occurring for 2 years for this letter to be received due to limited translation access but finally the big story from Russia has come about the 3 to 4 centuries of Russian interest about the Atlantis Myth and Legend or potential real history. Most do not know that in Great Britain, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Denmark, and North Africa great works written about Atlantis have been ongoing for at least 4 to 3 Centuries and now here is the Russian version of what they have contributed to this subject. I do not mean to not include works of Greece, Crete, Egypt, Israel, Middle East, Asia Minor, or Persia as not monumental in historical work about Atlantis they have all indeed given extremely important parameters in how, when, why, and where questions i.e. to look for that lost realm. The information on Atlantis all should know involve some of the rarest resource information in the world about that subject for many reasons. The main one is that when speaking about something that occurred say from 100,000 to 600 BC of a completely lost Continent or scattered to almost non-recognition it has taken 100 years of archaeology just to even establish any plausibility and with out those researcher plugging away we all would be up in arms and never even ask the question of Atlantis with our heads in the sand. Proof is not in the proving of the said existence of Atlantis as much as it is the journey of the search of its possibility until all information is in or final to establish whether or not it did exist. This is why skeptics are welcomed along with other researchers because any question can be a good question usually not wasted completely or just cast to the side. Although the information below maybe in some limited cases controversial about the Governments of both USA and Russia having a little to much to not say about the subject of Atlantis yet seemingly to be keenly interested about the subject when it literally shows up in artifacts, yet in their posture remains low profile to the public. I think the letter is somewhat warranted in some of those controversial comments by Voronin in light of past history of many Governments reactions ranging from overly cool to hostile reactions about the subject of Atlantis as considered to many atlantologist a fairly irrational response in light of goofy propaganda attempts they sometimes make when something big for historical purposes is found. Remember if you control the worlds history you control the world is maybe what they think but does not sound like a very spiritual credo to me! Truth is a funny thing it depends on how it is used and how it is to help the world essentially, but if the world has dumb people in powerful positions no one do I think could get out of the low IQ tele-garbage that they constantly hit the airwaves with of incorrect propaganda on behalf of any of the worlds true history of ancient man. Maybe Edgar Cayce, E.P.Blavatskaya, Rudolph Stiener, E. Sykes, Dr. Zhirov and Heinrich Schlimann beat all the world to this historical point for a spiritual reason?

The carpet rug my friends on the floor is lumpy with weird arti-facts underneath it do not let them tell you ever otherwise, less it be some others power and ego alone that tells you otherwise! Also, the website does not disagree nor agree with any opinions put forward in the letter below but we do feel it is considered highly important information about Atlantis research and indebted to A. Voronin as well done research. The World of Atlantology is exceedingly proud!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Dean!

I send to you material for publication.

With best regards
Voronin Alex.

Alexander Voronin

The development of Russian atlantology and the problem of Atlantis

First about atlantology as a science the famous Russian scientist and atlantologist Nikolay Feodosyevich Zhirov spoke (1903-1970). In 1964 his famous book “Atlantis. The major problems of atlantology” was published where the scientist formulated it’s principles and methods. According to his words atlantology as a science may be considered as one of the parts of biogeography of the modern Quarternary period (antropogen) of geological history of Earth and of that very part of it which dates chronologically to the time of formation of homo sapiens, time spontaneously preceding to our historical epoch starting from the last glaciery.
Studying this problem it is necessary to take into account a lot of factors: geological, paleobiological, comparative mythology. The task of scientific atlantology, as N.F. Zhirov writes to reveal the truth which is contained in different historical sources and myths, and among them in Plato’s story, and to find the corroborative facts and thoughts in the dataset received from different scientific disciplines. For the solution of these tasks atlantology attracts widely a lot of sciences: geology, archeology, oceanology, history, astronomy, astrophysics, antropology, etnography, mathematics, geophysics, volcanology and a lot of others.
Russian atlantology starts from the middle of 18th century. Lomonosov at first mentions Atlantis in his works “The letter about earthquakes” (Spb.1756) and “The word of birth of the metals from the shaking of the earth” (Spb.1757). In 1760-1761 Lomonosov started a big epic poem “Peter the Great”. There he describes the march of Peter to the north. The great poet used northern Russian, Cholmogor and Solovetsk chronicles. One of the finest passages in poem- the description of Neptune palace in the northern waters. May be, Lomonosov knew some features of ancient Hyperborean continent in Northern ocean? He places the chambers and the throne of tsar in the valley between high stony mountains which resemble so much to the famous relief of the capital of Atlantis!
The idea of ancient culture was originally developed by the other famous Russian poet Vasiliy Kapnist (1758-1823) in “Short search about hyperboreans” (1815). In the article Kapnist puts a question about origin of Slavs and about ancient sources of Russian art and poetry. He thought that the ancestors of Slavs were Hyperboreans and the last ones in their turn borrowed all their scientific and technical achievements, inventions, knowledge from Atlanteans.
Russian poets Nikolay Kluev and Alexander Block describe underwater Diamond Ice City- spiritual center of Russian Old Belief and also the symbolic ascent to snowy mountains in the North searching for God. The rich folklore tradition, legends of many nations of Europe and Asia tell about northern Aryan Motherland where Golden Age reigned.
In Russia there was their own Atlantis- White Waters. White Waters- concealed Russian idea, which was met at old-believers, wanderers, holy country in the East, the place of fulfillment of cherished human wishes where the holy wise and just men live who kept thoroughly spiritual knowledge and true faith.
Slavic nations of Ancient Rus have their own giants. Most likely, Rus was one of the northern colonies and lands of Hyperborea- Atlantis. The image of Sviatogor- the hero of Russian bylinas, the giant-bogatyr is provided with the same features as well as ancient Greek Atlant. In one of bylinas Sviatogor is trying to raise the bag with “the strength of the Earth” but sinks himself up to his knees into Earth. Zlatogorka, the daughter of Sviatogor lives somewhere behind the sea in Latyn (Altyn, Alatyr) kingdom, which is understood as Atlantis. Exactly Slavic legends tell us about the perished once great ancient land of Veles- Sviatogor- Dazhbog.
In the first half of 19th century Avraam Norov made an attempt of scientific search of Atlantis in Mediterranean region resting upon Arabian and Greek sources difficult of access.
The greatest role in creation of occult legend about Atlantis was played by our fellow Atlantis patriot E.P.Blavatskaya whose monumental works “Disrobed Isis” (1877) and “Secret Doctrine” (1888) promoted further studying and spreading of esoteric heritage, including clairvoyance, telepathy, psychometry, channeling which gave to the world new data about island of Poseidonis.
V.Briusov, K.Balmont, M.Menshikov, A.Bragin everybody by their own way describe the searches of Atlantis and even finds of this mysterious land. The anthology for the first time publishes the unknown still atlantological biographies of Vasily Kapnist (1758-1823), Avraam Norov (1795-1869), Helen Blavatskaya (1831-1891), Michail Menshikov (1859-1918), Vladimir Bogachev (1881-1965), Ignatius Donnelly (1831-1901) and other leading atlantologists doing justice to brave flight of thought and great courage to speak with scientific language about mythical country.
In Soviet times in 1964 the capital work of N. Zhirov “Atlantis.The major problems of atlantology” was published. Till recent time the book of Ignatius Donnelly “Atlantis. The antediluvian world” (1882) was considered the most fundamental. Russian scientist and atlantologist gathered great amount of material which nobody could gather before him. Zhirov analyzes thoroughly the legend of Plato about Atlantis basing on the newest data in geology, oceanology and also on the latest researches of Atlantic bottom. The scientist believes in Atlantis of the bronze epoch, in developed civilization on the big vanished island in Atlantic ocean.
According to Zhirov, Atlantis included the area of North-Atlantic ridge right up to Romansh gutter including Azores plateau. Atlantis presented by itself a long continent consisting of three major parts: northern island on the base of Azores plateau- Poseidonida or Azorida, southern island of Antilia and Equatorial archipelago, the remains of which are the rocks of the island of San-Paulu. The scientist thought that the reason of destruction of Atlantis was natural tectonic process.
The main inundation of Atlantis by this way consisted of two stages. The first apparently took place between 13 and 10 millenniums B.C., and the second, the most considerable,- between 9000 and 8000 B.C. The last remains of once vast territory of Atlantis sank already in 6 cent. B.C.
In the last decades a great attention to the questions of Atlantis was paid by the scientist and writer, one of the eminent Russian atlantologists Vladimir Scherbakov. Scherbakov thinks that there existed two Atlanticas in different geographical regions: the first one ( in fact Atlantis of Plato)- in Atlantic, and the second one- Eastern Atlantis- included in itself the most ancient cities of Asia Minor and Mediterranean. The scientist affirms that Eastern Atlantis was founded by migrants from metropoly (Atlantis of Plato) before world catastrophe.
Exactly from these regions: Frakia and Asia Minor went to their future Motherland the ancestors of European nations, among them the ancestors of Slavs and Germans who created Asgard. The eastern path of veneds-atlanteans is described in the book of Scherbakov “Asgard- the city of gods” (1991).
V.Scherbakov identified the ruins of ancient temples and buildings of Parphia epoch in Kopetdag (present Turkmenistan) with chambers of Asgard. In “Senior Edda” it is said about celestial city of Asgard and in “Earthly Circle” Snorry Sturluson writes about earthly Asgard, the dwelling of the gods- ases.
In May 1989 TASS published an official report about discovery by the scientist of Asgard, the city of Scandinavian gods. For this discovery Scherbakov was elected an academician of humanities department of International academy of informatisation and was awarded with the big silver medal. For working out of the topic of Asgard and for the book “Searching for Atlantis” (1986) created jointly with Jack-Yve Cousteau the scientist was confered on the degree of Doctor of Philosophy (Brusseles).
Member of Russian Academy of cosmonautics of K.E. Tsiolkovsky, the State prize of USSR winner Alim Voitsechovsky is an author of several books and brochures, devoted to the problems of world and home cosmonautics and atlantology. In the book “The Mysteries of Atlantis” (2000) Voitsechovsky stated his own vision of the destruction of Atlantis. The cosmic body which accompanied Galley comet, or “knocked out” by it from the points of Lagrange in the system “Earth- Moon”, with diameter of some kilometers and weight of more than hundred millions tons, moving with the speed about 30 km/sec, collided with Earth in the region of notorious Bermuda triangle. It happened in 11542 B.C. In the result of global cataclysm the high- developed human civilization which Plato called “Atlantis”, was wiped off the face of the earth.
The author of the present article is occupied with the problem of Atlantis for many years. In my program work “The Owners of Ogenon. The Mythology of Atlantis” (“Atlantis: problems, searches, hypotheses”, 1999, 2001-2002, issues 1-3) I managed to choose from the great amount of the myths, legends such that point directly to Atlantis and other civilizations. If the legend about Atlantis, told by Plato, existed, it had to be come down from father to son in the form of genealogical schemes, behind which the historical reality and memory of humanity are standing, hidden in the deepest layers of “collective unconscious”. Practically oral transmission of information is much more reliable than written one, because the language may change. Any priest could tell about this surprising civilization so that he could be understood in any country of the world, no matter what language in this time people used. That’s why the knowledge was transmitted through secret societies, religious cults and, surely, through myths and legends. So, it was the most ancient civilization on Earth, the real name of which only Initiated know.
Valuable source for research of Atlantis problems is genealogical and structural model of myphologema. It was developed in the 70s by A. Lord. According to “Lord’s structure" genealogical and structural model of myphologema (or symbolic field) do not allow to chose arbitrarily an appropriate ethymology of myphologema for effective but apocryphal typological reconstruction. As the result a whole system-bloc of ethymology making look deeper in the history of the development of myths in the definite sector of genealogical tree begins to play an important role but not the ethymology of separate names.
This system is the ancient complex of myphologema connected with doctors-koribants and marine strangers whose native country fell into chasm. The existence of stories of the country that fell into chasm is confirmed by the Texts of Pyramids. This ancient Egyptian country is called Osek – sk “which fell into the chasm”. According to philologist A.Kifishin it was this country that we could connect with the Greece Atlantis – the prospering country and that also fell into chasm. In any case it is a very steady myphologema.
In the book “The Owners of Ogenon. The Mythology of Atlantis” I determined mythological and genealogical schemes and tables of gods, heroes and historical persons, who had immediate attitude to the kingdom of Atlanteans and their hidden treasuries. Here are some persons: Sanchuniaton, Solomon, Queen of Sav, Fales, Filolay, Ferekid, Piphagor, Socrates, Gelon of Syracuse, Pindar, Aristotle, Xenocrat, Xenophont, Theopomp, Cyrus the Great, Cambiz, Mita (Midas), Alexander Macedonian, Nonn Panopolitanian, Dzeno brothers, Valeri Briusov, Apollinarii Michailov and his son Michail.
The book is devoted to old Russian noble family of Michailovs, which kept folklore report about greatest treasuries of antiquity, as if hidden on the island of Crete. With the help of historical-mythological and genealogical searches I connected these holy relics with Atlantis, and for the first time defined the place of their being. It is determined that the most of the treasuries belonged to the descendants of Tantal and Pelops, owning the attributes of tsar and magic power over people. Tantalides and Pelopides had distinctive sign on their bodies which pointed to their “marine origin”. In my work I advanced the conception of “multitude of lands-Atlantides”, scattered in the past on all planet. Many of them were placed on islands, continental shelves, coastal countries of America, Africa, Antarctida and Eurasia. This conception presupposes the existence in the ancient times of the original civilization. But real, first name of this culture is unknown to us, it changed every time, conforming to local conditions of origin and development of it on different parts of our planet. That’s why, following Plato tradition, we will call this culture- the culture of Atlanteans. The descendants of Atlant, according to Diodorus, as it is known, were the forefathers of the most part of the humanity.
To my mind, geographically such civilization divided on principal island kingdoms of Atlanteans (with the central island state Poseidonis), auxiliary kingdoms- island, shelf and continental, and, in fact, colonies, also island, shelf and continental. A number of them may be not limited.
Gram Hancock found “the traces of gods” on all the world, revealing ancient connections between outwardly not connected with each other civilizations. Hancock thinks that new discovery of archeologists will support his theory about complex of civilizations, which existed in glacial period, but were washed away, when the ice started melting, inundating more than 27 million of square km of dry land. In his time Charles Hapgood told that in the times of the last glaciery on Earth a developed civilization with substantial knowledge about our planet existed. It’s cartographers “made a survey of practically all the Globe with equally high technical level, same methodic, equal mathematical knowledge and, probably, using the same devices”.
Esoteric tradition as if confirms the words of Plato. Theosophist (among them E.P. Blavatskaya) tell us about four ancient continents, periodically disappearing after every cataclysm on Earth. These are Indestructible Holy Country, Hyperborea, Lemuria and Atlantis. In remote times Atlantis, according to Blavatskaya, represented a huge archipelago, consisting of “accumulation of many islands and peninsulas”.
In the book “The Owners of Ogenon. The Mythology of Atlantis” to support the conception of “multitude of the lands- Atlantides” I adduce rather rare document with the name “The Tree of Atlantis”. This is a manuscript of the middle of 1950-s of unknown Russian adherent who was a member of one Moscow societies of Rose and Cross. The manuscript was in a library of Michail Michailov, the last representative of old noble family, and according to his words was based on unknown source of the end of 18th- beginning of 19th centuries. In this document “the golden tree of Atlantis” is described which once stood in a beautiful garden on one of the islands of Azores archipelago. It stands near a high mountain, it’s roots stretch to The Underground kingdom, the top reaches heaven (Heaven’s kingdom). The mysterious tree resembles to us real “metal golden garden” in Kusco. It was beautiful panorama of one of ministerial ceremonies in Atlantis. Two ceremonies of Atlanteans were depicted in his time by Mickle Scott in 12th century. In one of the rites according to Scott a huge model of the country of Atlantis with all it’s topographical peculiarities was constructed. May be, golden tree depicted by us stood there. At the special model it’s branches stretched through oceans to all continents, and “countless leaves” depicted human races, nations etc. Most likely it is one of the most ancient geographical maps, similar to those which we see at Homer, Anaximandr, Hekatey.
It is striking but here non traditional point of view to the problem of Atlantis is shown to which everybody got used. Most likely, the unknown adherent based on the conclusions of Blavatskaya that Atlantis is not only geographical point but also a certain stage of development of life on Earth. But, may be it was another source.
In her time Blavatskaya was guided by esoteric sources (Rose and Cross, mason etc.), knowledge picked up from “Chronicles of Acasha”, and also had direct contact with highest representatives of White Gimalayan Brotherhood. To my mind the author of “The Tree of Atlantis” used some unknown to us source of Rose and Cross or other which circulated in that time in Moscow esoteric circles.
Now we can say with evident certainty that in Russia and in USSR there existed a definite closed circle of esoterics which was occupied directly by the problem of Atlantis. Especially demonstrative here is Moscow Knights Templars, spiritual predecessors of Rose and Cross and later mystical societies, consisting of “Order of Light”, “Order of Spirit”, Rose and Cross etc. One of such orders was found in 1920 in Moscow and destroyed in the end of 1930s.
The theme of “Atlantis” is present in creative work and esoteric searches of Russian writers and poets, Symbolists of Rose and Cross in the beginning of 20th century. Atlantologist and specialist in study of literature Georgi Nefediev, specialist on the literature of Silver Age, traces back the possible relationships of Atlantis and brotherhood of Rose ad Cross. His work is based on archives searches of Andrei Bely, Viatcheslav Ivanov, Anna Minzlova and other Russian thinkers. Nefediev thinks that studying of creation and biographies of writers and poets- Russian symbolists, who wrote about Atlantis, may lead to unexpected conclusions, relating as to legendary country itself as to reconstruction of esoteric history of humanity.
The works of Russian atlantologists: V. Scherbakov, A.Kondratov, A.Gorodnitsky, E,Milanovsky, I.Rezanov, D.Panchenko, V.Kudriavtsev, A.Asov, V.Demin, A.Voitsechovsky, A.Voronin, G.Nefediev, A.Vagabov, V.Pachomov, Y.Linnik, V.Burachovich, G.Makarov, A.Rybin and others let to approach to the solution of centuries-old mystery-myth.
During the last years Russian atlantologists made more active noticeably. Since 1999 in Moscow the anthology “Atlantis: problems, searches, hypotheses”- first Russian periodical edition, specially devoted to Atlantis and major problems of atlantology,is published. In this edition all points of view, as traditional, as non-traditional are presented. The anthology acquaints the reader with new discoveries in the sphere of ancient archaeology and history, brave hypotheses, rare archive materials about Russian and foreign atlantologists, or famous cultural workers, who by any way dealt in their works with the questions of Atlantis.
The anthology tells about unknown pages of home atlantology. Russia enriched the world image of Atlantis by the great names: Michail Lomonosov, Helen Blavatskaya, Nickolay Rerich, Helen Rerich, Dmitry Merezhkovsky, Valery Briusov, Konstantin Balmont, Velimir Chlebnikov, Vasily Rozanov, Viatcheslav Ivanov, Alexey Tolstoy, Alexandr Belyayev, Georgy Golochvastov. We tried to deal with unstudied till the end layer of Russian culture connected wit esoteric knowledge of ancient civilizations on Earth. On the pages of this edition it is possible to acquaint with creation of forgotten today Russian atlantologists and also cultural workers, by any way connected with Atlantis: Avraam Norov, Vasily Kapnist, Michail Menschikov, Vladimir Bogachev, Nickolay Zhirov, Alexandr Aseev, Alexandr Bragin and many others.
In the frames of anthology the only in Russia and countries of CIS Museum of Atlantis of N.F.Zhirov is created. Museum owns a voluminous library of the books in Russian and other materials, devoted to Atlantis. Here the books, manuscripts, photos from family archive and other things belonging to eminent Soviet scientist and atlantologist Nickolay Feodosievich Zhirov are kept solicitously.
Atlantis was placed in any place. It is simpler to show the place where it was not placed. The numerous analogies in the culture of different people, especially of America, Africa and Eurasia , gathered by Donnelly, Zhirov, Heyerdal, Hancock and other investigators, show, that major kingdoms of Atlanteans and mastered by them colonies were scattered on all the world. Taking into account the dataset of paleobotany and paleozoology it is possible to explain connections between flora and fauna of Old and New Worlds.
Here major kingdoms may mean some first centers of development of Atlantean human race which started to spread over Earth further. During some decades scientists were sure that ancient man appeared in the regions of Eastern or Southern Africa, because exactly there the remains of the first anthropoids were found. And already then according to investigators the man started migration to Asia and Europe.
However recent archaeological finds in Thailand shook this confidence. Found in the province of Lampang (510 km from Bangkok) remains of homo erectus were dated by earlier period: about 20-25 mln. years ago. This hypothesis appeared at first in the time when analogous remains were found on the island of Yava in Indonesia and in the foothills of Caucasus. Now hypothesis got a serious confirmation in Thailand burials.
The last researches of the remains of anthropoids from different parts of the world showed that all main races of people: European, Negro-Australian and Mongolian developed independently and had different ancestors. These results- the last proof of the scientific controversy of the theories of origin of the modern Homo Sapiens.
This confirms surprising sagacity of H.Blavatsaya who asserted in 19th century that every human race is born at seven zones or Appanages in different parts of the planet. Probably, the general theory has more reasons for development that really already several directions of human races developed which periodically seldom crossed with each other. One of such races could be the race of Atlanteans.
For today the most perspective regions for the searches for Atlantis are: Northern, Central and Southern Americas, the Antarctic, the Arctic, the island of San-Paulu, Cuban and Bahamas areas of water, Bermuda triangle, Bermuda, Azores, Canary islands, the island of Madeira, the islands of Green Cape and Selvazhensh, underwater archipelago of Horseshoe, Celtic shelf, the coast of Spain, the mouth of Gibraltar, the north of Europe and Russia, Atlas region and Tritonida (Northern Arica), Nigeria, Sicily, Malta, Crete, and Santorin.
In the book “The Gates of Atlantis” Andrew Collins considers in details the variants of translation of the dialogues of Plato. In them it is told that the kings of Atlantis (ten sons of Poseidon) had the power “over other islands and regions of the opposite continent”. The descendants of Poseidon “reigned as princes of countless islands in the ocean, besides their own”. That’s why the kingdom of Atlanteans was not a united island massif, but a vast number of islands.
The colonies of white race (Arians, Greeks, Celts, Goths, Slavs and others) according to Donnelly, were created by Atlanteans on the northern shores of Europe. He tells about numerous colonies of Atlanteans: Central American, Northern American, Egyptian, Iberian, African, Ireland, Arian etc.
Collins, for example, considers that Cuba, Haiti and Puerto-Rico once were the parts of Atlantis. As far back as in 1950s in Cuban coastal waters the remains of cyclopean constructions were seen. In press there appeared the essays about some complex of underwater buildings with area in four hectares to the north from Cuba. Collins writes guardedly that according to data which are not confirmed in this “complex of buildings” there were held investigations with the help of Soviet submarine. This story could be incredible but fact remains: after that the publication followed of the book of Soviet scientist and atlantologist N.F. Zhirov “Atlantis” (1957). More substantial work with the name “Atlantis. The Main Problems of Atlantology” was published in 1964. Exactly in that times as Collins say, Soviet Union, resting on these finds, conducted in different regions of Atlantic the active searches of the proofs of existence of Atlantis.
Among people in the West who understood at once that Soviet Union had already conducted the investigations of underwater construction in the waters of Cuba, was Leicester Hemingway, brother of the famous writer Ernest Hemingway. During his flight to Cuba Leicester noticed on the bottom “stony ruins occupying the area of some acres and having strangely white color as if they are made of marble”.
In May 2001 in the bay of Guanahasibibes in western part of Cuba the joint Canada- Cuban expedition under leadership of Paulina Zelitzky discovered underwater city the age of which was 6000 years. It is curious that Paulina Zelitzky was born in Poland but studied for engineer in one of the closed institutes of Soviet Union. During cold war she was appointed to work on secret submarine which was then in Cuban waters. After that Zelitzky married and emigrated to Canada. It proves once more that the discoveries of Cuban-Canadian company under leadership of Paulina Zelitzky in western areas of water of Cuba were based on the results which were made some decades ago by Russians and Cubans. It is not a secret that until now the region of Seven Caves on the island of Youth (Pinos) is controlled by military men and tourists have no access here.
Soviet submarines and research vessels furrowed in the region of Azores islands, near the shores of Spain and underwater archipelago Horseshoe. Russian geologists studied for a long time the underwater shoals Amper, Zhozephine, Gettisberg, Dacia, Concepsion, Corall, Sen which are members of archipelago Horseshoe. As far back as in 1962 Soviet vessel “Sedov” studied rather carefully the shoal Gettisberg. In the same region American and English geologists and oceanographers worked later.
In 1970-80s USSR conducted large-scale research of two underwater mountains Amper and Zhozephine. Hundreds of photos were made where hand-made walls, steps, the traces of masonry and vaults of some stony structures are imprinted. In these works doctor of geological-mineralogical sciences, professor, leading official of Institute of Oceanology of Russian academy of Sciences of P.P.Shirshov Alexandr Gorodnitsky took part. Geological and petrochemical investigation of the specimen of basalt from the top of the mountain showed that such rock could form only on dry land 12000 years ago. So, almost 12000 years ago this archipelago was above water and stretched from Azores islands to Gibraltar.
Not long ago French scientist Jack Collina-Jirar opened in the mouth of Gibraltar seven underwater shoals on which according to his mind culture of Atlanteans could originate. Near Cadiz in the middle of 1970s the archaeologists found at the depth of 30 meters the remains of huge four buildings with stony roads. Beginning from 1970s and up to 1990s here military marine forces of USA conducted their secret research expeditions. According to the rumors exactly military men found in Spanish waters the remains of Atlantis.
The modern scientist Jeremy Horwick is going to publish the book “Mission- Atlantis: What do Seamen Know About Destroyed Continent”, in which he describes these operations. Horwick refers to declassified official documents and questioning of the former seamen from submarine. He maintains that military men managed to rise to the surface and take out the specimen of antediluvian techniques and armor of Atlantis. Later on Americans wanted to apply the unique technology of Atlantis in the cold war with Soviet Union. All this knowledge was used by the scientists of USA to create mighty military technique among them the invisible airplanes of the type “stells”, anti-missile system, cosmic technologies. Later on all publications about find were voted as mystification. From reliable sources it is known that here American special services took part which spread rumors with intention about supposedly deliberately false information.
In 2001 to the south-west from Azores islands American and Spanish geologists fixed underwater plateau of 90 km long. In the center of plateau not destroyed temple with nine columns is found. Nearby the remains of five circle channels with bridges were placed. As American atlantologists assure all the information and photographs of the buildings are blocked by military departments of USA. According to our data exactly on Terseira one of the most secret bases of military marine forces of USA is situated. May be it is connected with mysterious anomaly zones on archipelago itself and in the coastal waters? Portuguese's call such zones “Misterios”.
Recent sensational finds near the coasts of Cuba, Easter island, India, Japan, on Bahama and Azores islands, practically on all northern coast of Russia from Kolsky peninsula to Taimyr, on the islands of Spitsbergen, on Franz Josef Land and Novaya Zemlya tell about incredible antiquity of not only human culture but also attribute them to Mythical civilizations, such as Hyperborea, Lemuria, Atlantis, Pacifida, Mu and others.
French scholar Jean Bailly in 17 th cent. identified Hyperborea and Atlantis. He formed the polar conception of the origin of world culture and civilization. So, mass migrations of ancient nations went from North and not from South. In the end of 19th and beginning of 20th cent. William Warren in the book “Found Paradise on the Northern Pole” (1893) and Balgangadhara Tilak in the book “Arctic Motherland in Vedas” (1903).
In the beginning of 21st cent. Russian professor, doctor of philosophy Vitaly Demin came to the same conclusion. From 1986 with systematical investigations of Russian Arctic Marine Arctic complex expedition is occupied actively. Expeditions of 1997-2002 to Kolsky peninsula and Yamal, organized by Demin, gave sensational results. On the whole coast Yamal the traces of being of ancient man are found, dated by the lower chronological slat by 3,000 B.C. Earlier, in 1982 during excavations in the region of Diring-Yuriah 140 km from Yakutsk stone tools were found the age of which is determined in the frames of 3,2-1,5 million years. In summer of 2001 on the river of Polui 40 km from Salekhard arcaeologists found tattooed mummy of the girl, which was not ascribed to any antropological race. Consequently, we can say that origin of man on Earth happened not in one place but in several ones and among them behind the polar circle.
On Kolsky peninsula and Solovetsk islands the most striking discoveries were made: the remains of ancient constructions, rock paintings, stone galleries, labyrinths, sanctuaries, pyramids, stone idol of 5 metres, mysterious polymetal figure resembling picture of matriarchal Eurasian Great Goddess.
Holy Lappish lakes Seidozero and Lovozero of Kolsky peninsula hide in themselves a lot of mysteries. In 1922 under the guidance of F. Dzerzhinsky to Seidozero the expedition of Russian scientist-cosmist Alexandr Barchenko (1881-1938) set off. Exactly here the expedition looked for material traces and secret knowledge of disappeared Hyperborean culture. According to witnesses, the participants found “stony flower of lotus”, the picture of trident, high white column, near it- mysterious cubic stone.
Then a secret department existed in OGPU, secretly leading and financing some laboratories and expedition projects and among them elaborations of Barchenko. The discoveries of Barchenko at once appeared in the hands of officials of All-Russian Special Commission for Combating Counter- revolution and Sabotage and were strictly placed on secret about which there are documental corroborations.
Seidozero itself is a symbol and personification of Great Mystery. According to legend it has double bottom. In the mountains near the lake Barchenko went down to underground cave which probably led under the bottom of the lake. In July 2001 the expedition of Demin managed to fix with the help of radiolocation on the coast of Seidozero a vast- about 9 meters in height- cavity of the cave kind filled with water. From here under the bottom of the lake a tunnel goes also filled with water and silt. In a year here rectilineal stone blocks were found processed as examination showed by metal instruments! The time of their artificial processing oscillate from 8th to 9th thsnd. B.C.
Also a great impression make pyramidal peaks on Spitsbergen. The name of northern archipelago is derived from two words: spitz- “sharp end”, bergen- “mountains”. One of the most famous mountains on Spitsbergen is called so- “pyramid”. Pyramidal hills, mounds, mountains and, properly speaking pyramids are everywhere.
In Russia pyramidal constructions and, in fact, pyramids we can meet in Chukotka, Yamal, Urals, Siberia, Primorsky region (Nachodka), in Middle Asia. Even in Crimea whole 37 underground pyramids are found! In the centre of Nachodka a pyramid with the name “Brother” is rising exploded in Soviet times. The age of pyramid is estimated by the scientists of Second Amur expedition in some tens thousand years, and may be hundred thousand years.
Large stone balls of different seize the researchers unexpectedly found on the island of Champ of Franz Josef Land archipelago. Undoubtedly, they are processed by human hands and resemble the same artifacts of Costa-Rica, Guatemala and Mexico. The scientists managed to find similar stone balls in other regions of the planet- in Kazachstan, Egypt, Romania, Germany, Brasil.
Some data let us tell that rivalry between Soviet Union and USA in a cold war took place not only in the sphere of traditional science and culture but in the non-traditional sphere such as esoteric knowledge of ancient civilizations including Hyperborea, Lemuria and Atlantis. The archives of the former special agencies and special departments OGPU, NKVD, MGB, in particular, concerning expeditions of Barchenko, Rerich and other investigators to Kolsky peninsula, Krimea, Altai, Aphganistan,Tibet, Mongolia and other concealed centers passed under the authority of KGB and then FSB of Russia. It is known that in 1926 Barchenko and Rerich met with each other.
In the last decade Russian scientists continue the searches of the perished civilization. In the period from 1996 to 1999 the group of scientists from Ufa under leadership of doctor of medicine, professor, the director of All Russian center of optic and plastic surgery of Ministry of health of Russia E.R.Muldashev organized four expeditions in the region of Tibet to find legendary City of Gods.
Studying the results of four Gimalayan-Tibet expeditions, Muldashev and his group came to sensational conclusions: City of Gods was built by representatives of antediluvian civilizations: Lemurians and Atlanteans!
The members of expedition discovered in the region of Tibet about 100 mountains in which the pyramidal constructions and monuments could be guessed, clearly oriented to the sides of the world. All this complex of mountain constructions is connected mathematically and geographically with Egyptian, Mexican and other pyramidal constructions on Earth, Northern Pole and ancient megaliths (Stonehenge and others).
On the top of one of the pyramids the members of expedition saw a monument in the pose of sitting man. The height of this monument approximately was 40 meters. Computer treatment of photo- and video material showed that the statue “was sitting” in the pose of Buddha, slightly inclined ahead, holds a plate (or a book) on the knees and as if reading it. The statue is turned with it’s face to South-East- where legendary Lemuria was situated on the territory of Pacific ocean. Muldashev thinks that this monument symbolizes a Lemurian, giving to Atlanteans “golden plates” on which imperishable knowledge of former generations is written. According to many legends “golden plates” (the records of true, “Akasha” knowledge) are kept till now in the deep undergrounds of Shambala- City of Gods together with sleeping representatives of the first civilizations on Earth.
In summer of 1998 Institute of Metahistory jointly with Institute of oceanology of Russian academy of sciences of P.P.Shirshov conducted preparations of expedition for the search of legendary island. The scientists had to check up the hypothesis of Member of Russian Geographical society of Russian academy of sciences Viatcheslav Kudriavtsev, according to which, Atlantis was in the region of Celtic shelf to the south of present England and Ireland and to the West from France. But expedition wasn’t held because of financial difficulties.
Numerous artifacts found in all places of the World come to the conclusion about existence in the distant past of unknown civilization preceding to ours. And it is not important how it was called: Hyperborea, Lemuria or Atlantis. The other thing is important, that many years ago, when the skepticism of humanity concerning cyclic development was very high there were found great lone persons-investigators like Zhirov, who believed selflessly into existence of antediluvian cultures. It was a real knight of Atlantis, eminent person of encyclopedic knowledge and atlantologist of 20th Century.
Zhirov believed that the time of enthusiastic lonely persons who cannot embrace all the complex of questions connected with scientific atlantology will some time pass. Zhirov dreamed about the problem of Atlantis to be examined with participation of scientists-specialists of different scientific disciplines.
It seems that such time has already come. In western countries the societies, organizations and institutes actively working with the problem of Atlantis are created. One of the main such centers is situated in the state of Virginia (USA). Association of scientists and men of enlightenment (ARE) was created in 1932 on the base of Fund of Edgar Cayce, where the theme of “Atlantis” is on one of the first places in the system of research projects.
In Russia with the questions of Atlantis recently created “Russian society on studying of the problems of Atlantis” (ROIPA) under the aegis of anthology “Atlantis: problems,searches, hypotheses” is occupied.
In 2000 in Moscow the First Russian congress of atlantologists took place which solved in the main organizing problems in connection with publication of special anthology. In May of 2003 also in Moscow in premises of Institute of oceanology of Russian academy of sciences of P.P. Shirshov the Second Russian congress of atlantologists , devoted to 100 anniversary of outstanding Russian atlantologist and scientist Nikolay Feodosievich Zhirov, took place.
At the forum famous scientists, investigators, atlantologists were present: Doctor of geological-mineralogical sciences, Professor, leading official of Institute of oceanology of Russian academy of sciences of P.P. Shirshov A.M.Gorodnitsky, Doctor of philosophy in the sphere of ancient history (Brusseles) V.I. Scherbakov, leading official of Institute of geography of Russian academy of sciences, Doctor of geographical sciences, Professor M.G. Grosvald, State prize of the USSR winner, member of Russian academy of cosmonautics of K.E. Tsiolkovsky A.I. Voitsechovsky, writer, chief editor of the magazine “World Pathfinder” N.N. Nepomniaschy, President of Russian society on studying of the problems of Atlantis (ROIPA), chief editor of the anthology “Atlantis: problems, searches hypotheses” A.A. Voronin, Chairman of independent association “The Lute of Oriola”, winner of the premium of International Literary fund of Milan Fusht at Hungarian Academy of sciences L.A. Volodarsky, atlantologist and specialist in study of literature G.V.Nefediev, investigator-atlantologist A. Vagabov and many others.
The congress played a great role in unification of Russian atlantologists, strengthening of relations with foreign colleagues, scientific institutions, which are occupied at the present time with the problem of Atlantis in Russia and abroad.
The last investigations show that humanity doesn’t stay still. From the color pieces of antediluvian heritage of the most ancient civilizations a united mosaic canvas with the name “Atlantis” is formed gradually. The humanity is being convinced the next time that History cannot be considered without intercommunication with ancient Tradition and Esoteric doctrine. The development of the science of atlantology will inevitably lead in the near future to the practical aim- discovery of mysterious Atlantis.

Alexandr Voronin

President of Russian society on studying of the problems of Atlantis (ROIPA)

Chief editor of the anthology
“Atlantis: problems, searches, hypotheses”

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Webmasters response to the information presented-

As you can see there is allot of timeline history in Russian research into the Atlantis question which for some of us in the 'states' in some cases makes one feel like we are out of touch with what has happened with the rest of the Old World theories about Atlantis which we only get a portion of from internet, library loan books, or correspondence via the electronic age. Most of us do not travel the world and in our own little cubby holes we get very little of what the bigger picture on the Atlantis subject of what it actually was or is. The main point is other people of other countries are invited to put forward Bibliography research and the goal of this internet site is to have the largest Bibliography base on Atlantis books or research in the world. I have been collecting for sometime and think soon the greatest book lists should be put forward for the future researcher to look up. Why? Because the day Atlantis is publicly found or announced and the finders of Atlantis said 'yep that's Atlantis alright' I think the list of books of who said what over time will be exceedingly important just as science glorified Sir Arthur Evans or many other great archaeologist, before they do take credit for the Atlantis discovery take a good look at who in the past were the list of believers of Atlantis who never got credit and got ridiculed for just looking at the subject by their own piers! When did the ridicule start? Aristotle started it on Plato, but later actually had pseudo recanted due to some mysterious evidence that upset him to not speak about it further when asked his opinion on the subject. Much as Jung did to Freud, the knock came from somewhere else when Aristotle looked into the subject and found he could not disprove Plato, what that may have involved was some botany issue maybe like Darwin's of the Canary Islands African violets? The main aspects of the above letter found intriguing is the Giant terms like Rus, and the giant-bogatyr it may be noted I might add for A. Voronin that 'Rus' is a part of a name involved in Stonehenge's own old name of Kalerous in Egyptian is Kel=Temple (Celtic Prefix)+Lair like a Field+(L=R)Ra+Aus= 'The Temple or Field of Ra and Osiris' and note the Kaleva Story name as a kind of Killarous in the sense of Kelva or Corva is Raven and Crone of Bran. The bird is Rus or Ra-Aus in a rising sun form a replacement of Ra-Benu a large mythical bird of the Nordic a heron or woodpecker variety. Thus is Stonehenge lore is it was built by Giants then here is the 'Rus' Gaints name replicated as his Kel-Temple. Makes one wonder if the name was Rus-Thonen? Then also this," Russian poets Nikolay Kluev and Alexander Block describe underwater Diamond Ice City- spiritual center of Russian Old Belief and also the symbolic ascent to snowy mountains in the North searching for God. " Well known the story of the Kaleva of the Ice Giants who come from Castle of Ice of a name like Carianthral ('Crown Tower') as if Corona Borealis had gone sunk? Also Bogatyr of Russia has a place name relative of Bogota of Bolivia or in South America which has many weird iron to copper sculptures of a head dressed figure who looks like a Hindu version of Lugh or the conical hat attributed to a culture that came from Venezula or from the marsh river culture near the Islands of the coast of Columbia or Brazil and has the ethnic look of a 'Pomer' or 'Sea Side People' who were at first noted as Red Ochre seekers of the Middle East Asian mixed who had Baltic God names but not unlike pre-Phoenician associations? Although some confusions later or earlier with Bootes figure the original Bogata seems to have been a woman Giantess! The line about "Zlatogorka, the daughter of Sviatogor lives somewhere behind the sea in Latyn (Altyn, Alatyr) kingdom, which is understood as Atlantis. Exactly Slavic legends tell us about the perished once great ancient land of Veles- Sviatogor- Dazhbog." Shows some very plausible language as somewhat old i.e. this list:

Svaitogor as 'Suph-t'='Reed' or 'Heaven Region' or 'Field' with Akeru as 'the man of the field' as divine or intelligent often involving a circuit of land or the sky in Egypt. In Canaan Atragades or Atragator is allot like the 'aitogor' name involving a sacred land of a man or woman goddess connected with both agriculture, tree or garden cultivators but of hunters as well.

The Zlatogorka would appear to be his pseudo consort of the female form with the 'atogorka' which Gorka was a term used for female shamans like Gorgo-n. But outside of the Zlato or salt name and Gorka as possibly a fish there is the Sertu-Kerke which involves a 'cave' and 'circle of stone' term and possibly a 'never setting field' which in the end on land the field eventually did.

The most important clue is the Latyn, Altyn, and Alatyr kingdom involving altar, hill, and lind worm along with river and a female Sun Goddess with some tower or bull possibly involved. The Alatyr is very similar to Altair Star easily seen star of Aquila constellation often associated with lands running from North America to the Nordic and Hyperborian kingdoms? In the northern sky it is one end of the Milky Way bridge so to speak and a significant metaphor if the spelling and pronunciations are correct. It may explain a Nordic name for Draco as in some cases a name like Ladon taken from what appears to be Lythian or Scythian terminologies?

On the whole the Veles-Sviatogor-Dazhbog seems to indicate a strange comment about that land which is very close to a descriptive of lands probably west of Russia and even Great Britian involving the Celtic Shelf all the way to the Sargasso Sea. Veles like Valleys, Vales, Winds or Sails like Vela X, Wales like the 'Milky Way', or Ferrys actual boat. Then the Sviatogor 'Land of Sacred Heavenly Reeds or in America we call the 'Ever Glades' and Elysian Fields. Then Dazhbog which is actually more difficult but could be a name like Tchesberg or Datcha-Bog as a Council or a cemetary as Tcheser with the Bog as the place of glacial sunk land as if Corona constellation and its council sunk like the 'Ice Castle'? If we take the line from Altair to Corona we find one creature or two encompass that region in the north sky one is Vega, the next is Hercules, and last is Draco in the dead center of this mythic plotting. Daz could refer to Draco as well implied as cut by some pole alignment in relation to the Bogs? It maybe noted Altair is 15' degrees below the Corona line in the night sky so if once circumpolar by that distance south we are looking at a region not far from the Straits of Gibraltar and most definitely looking at the terminus of the region of Southern France west Coast i.e. near Spain. We can imagine as many Hesperidia type myths that the Milky Way ended up having the Atlantis story thrown into the sky as eternal reeds and ferries crossing them to the Slavic or Nordic ancestors via the bogs of the final resting place of the atlantean councils or their lost celtic shelf and ancestors in the 'west' like Osiris and Arthurs Avalon is typified. This I put forward in light of John Cohane's 'The Key' which is somewhat a valid attempt of the places, gods names and men as well as other studies of linguistics I do. Others can try what I just did but you may note I was exceedingly cautious for sound shifts are a touchy thing not child's play and difficult to master. If one does not have at least 30 years experience in this then you better have the best sound shift information and ancient texts in your hands and know about 8 languages right off hand and even then you may not have the full history of language in front of you which involves libraries most never go to in order to find out. Some of the information put forward in the above compellation of Voronin has been noted only in certain parts in Charles Berlitz Book 'The Eight Continent' but very few if at all of the Russian work in general. Without the information above as a guideline most of us in the world would not be aware of the level of contribution the Russians have on Atlantis, and now that country is of a Euro type status I am sure more declassified information will come out over the years to fill the deep void most of us felt when the 'Block' was up and could not correspond in the specific interest of Atlantology which the year 2,000 A.D. was designated a science not a fringe archaeology due to what has occurred in Cuba temples found which now has taken most scientists out of the laughing group into very serious and concerned posture that history will once again be slightly vindicated by their prior jeers. Atlantologists believe me are now some of the most sought after scientists in light of these new facts but the point is they have been around for years but who would listen? It was the public that listened and explains why the story has never ended they understand that in civilizations of man spanning thousands upon thousands of years man has rose and fell in periods of light and darkness and so the public even with a high school education can understand at least that very physical and human reality i.e. our frailty to any form of extinction. Lets pray that this website and many others awakening the world of certain realities will make many appreciate the world wide heritage Atlantis and Mu plausibly somewhat bestowed on man in growing up back to the period of beings of light we once were and may return to that condition if we learn about the harmony of earth not the discord of it. Sinc. Dean Clarke BLS

Thanks A. Voronin, again good work and this is a replication to what are the parts of the information that are on their Russian website in Russia of the Russian society on studying of the problems of Atlantis (ROIPA) and open to the Russian public.

"The existence of stories of the country that fell into chasm is confirmed by the Texts of Pyramids. This ancient Egyptian country is called Osek – sk “which fell into the chasm”. According to philologist A.Kifishin it was this country that we could connect with the Greece Atlantis – the prospering country and that also fell into chasm. In any case it is a very steady myphologema."

We are too busy searching for a "SUNKEN" Land!!

Told you, Wedjahor-Resne was telling us something!

Check this out.

Atlantis = Ta-Tenen (Risen Land in Egyptian or risen hill)

epanateilantos= ancient Greek for Risen.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%2338149

Kleitus= slope,hillside.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%2357788

Now maybe Erick will know how to put his homonyms together so they tell the truth!!

hee hee.

2575 years later.....Riven.

That is an interesting concept. But rising is more revelant to ancient Egypt if we apply the root word to Helios, constellations, Gaia (and the Anatolian plateau) and the heliacal rising of Sirius.

So I suggest studying the Greek word anatello/anatellonta, especially the Intransitive meanings listed in this link: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%237612

By the way, we previously discussed the origin of the name Poseidon as "he who causes water to run downhill". That definition serves as a match for your suggestion that kleitus(="slope") might be the basis for Kleito as a wife of Poseidon.

As you know there are at least 20 different Greek names for either hill or earth.

We have to look at which one can be specificaly describing Atlantis as I have shown how Greek and Egyptian words are alike in some manners.

Ta-Tenen is the Egyptian name for Atlantis, the new Rising land from the Atlantic.

Plato developed the word Atlantis from;

epanateilantos > anateilantos > ateilantos >
atilantos > Atlantis.

The word can be translated from Egytpian to Greek and back to Egyptian.

The Gods came from this word TA-Ten-en.

A-ta-las> ta-las
Ptah-hotep TA TE, ta hote tehuty Thoth
wbn-qAA > rise > hill or,
wbn-tA > rise > earth

SAa-m > beginning from (of place or time) (prep)

itn > Aten (noun)

it(w)> ancestors (noun)

it > Father

Taw > breath (noun)

Awt > offerings (noun)

Atf > crown of Osiris (noun)

and there AROSE a power out of the Atlantic .

TaTA

It turms out that "tello" is regarded as a Cretan verb; in the active form, it means to accomplish something. But as a passive verb it refers to STARS rising. And Perseus suggests that the underlying concept which links "accomplishing" to "rising" is that the stars are REVOLVING.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%23103006

I can see your point. (Although I would favor a root for the Greek word Atlantis which has only one "l", whereas tello has 2 l's).

This REVOLVING concept goes to the heart and soul of the way Plato and Critias interpreted Solon's story. Ta-Tenon is in the "Atlantic" ocean -- but primarily BECAUSE the whole Mediterranean is being described as "a harbor of the outer ocean". (The Egyptians considered primordial ta-tenon (risen land) to be the Nile Delta. And Menes made this into a archtype when he bulked up the land around his city Memphis (=Ta-Tennon) at the entrance to the Nile Delta.)

The New Kingdom Egyptians had regarded the land of the Gods to be the land of Punt, which is the place Hatshepsut visited in Somalia or Ethiopia or Madagascar.

Pharoah Necco II (ca 600 BC) sent the Phoenicians out on a quest to rediscover the land of Punt, by sailing east down the Red Sea. They did discover a large Island in the outer Ocean (i.e. Madagascar Island). Then they rounded the southern tip of Africa and returned through the Pillars of Hercules into the "harbor within the outer sea".

Now riddle me this (said Batman to the Joker): if "tello" is a Cretan word for "revolve", then does this indicate that the Middle Minoans, and/or the Early Minoans, knew the "Atallantis" story?

Again we have to search through "GARBAGE".

Have you looked into their latest translation? GARBAGE.

They changed a lot of names such as Harbour into Haven?

I sense that they are on the side of discrediting the true words of Solon and Atlantis to give us the idea of fiction.

Garbage.

Yes, I do strongly agree that the EARLY Creteans,Italians and Malta had knowledge of Atlantis as we also see in Ecbatana where they also built a circular city of 7 walls which I believe came from Saitic knowledge.

Especially the Tarxiens...TA TA-Tenen

The Truth is that there is no Truth but to witness ourselves how we can interpretate the mistakes made by others, such as the Dynastic Kings list and test the lakes of Maat and the scales of Anubis to derive at the balanced truth. (lifetime project for those interested)

We know that the Atlanteans controlled INSIDE of the straites, so clearly we can see the relationships of Atlanteans and foreigners.

That's why I was always puzzled as to whose side Crete was on. The Egyptian/Greeks or the Malta/Lake Tritonis Atlanteans.

Preference to the latter.

You see, they can change or alter all the names that they want or spray the Egyptian walls with acid to erase time primordial.

They cannot however change the legends that are common to us all where the hidden truth lies, nor can they anticipate new discoveries to confirm the Truth such as the Dragon Claw Orb Ship.

quote:

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U.S. NAVY FOUND ATLANTIS IN 1973!
Underwater city is 19 miles off coast of Spain!
By VINCENZO SARDI

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Navy has known the exact location of Atlantis since 1973 and has even sent nuclear subs to explore the sunken ruins, a new book charges!

"For more than a quarter of a century, the United States government has kept this extraordinary discovery a secret from the American people," claims researcher Jeremy Horwick, authorof the upcoming book, Mission: Atlantis: What the Navy Really Knows about the Lost Continent.

Author: Jeremy Howick
According to Horwick, who cites once-classified documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act and interviews with former seamen, a Navy sub discovered the ruins of the fabled civilization while doing maneuvers off the coast of Spain on July 25, 1973.

"The ruins are about 5,500 feet deep and are quite vast, extending for at least 19 square miles," the D.C.-based author says.

While the captain of the vessel immediately recognized the significance of the find, he received orders to keep mum from the highest levels of the government.

Horwick has evidence that this order came from then-President Nixon, who decided that keeping the discovery secret was in the best national security interests of America.

"Nixon's advisers, including Henry Kissinger, were quite aware of the legends surrounding Atlantis, that it had achieved a highly sophisticated level of technology before the catastrophe that sent it to the bottom of the ocean," says Horwick. "They knew that during World War II, Hitler had sent his U-boats on a desperate hunt for Atlantis, believing that he might retrieve that technology and use it to build a secret weapon that would help Germany achieve victory.

"President Nixon felt that there might be technology Amer-ica could use to win the Cold War and he decided to try to salvage it.

"He didn't want to give the Russians a head's up with any kind of public announcement, out of fear they would plunder it first."

Since that time, the Navy has launched four expeditions to Atlantis, the latest in 1997 -- and has retrieved not only cultural artifacts but scientific machinery, the author claims.

"The Atlantean technology is based on principles very far afield from anything Western science has developed, apparently involving mind-over-matter," Horwick says.

"Some of the latest military hardware we're seeing now, including the Stealth Bomber and the Star Wars missile-defense system now being advanced by President Bush, incorporate technology salvaged from Atlantis."

Published on: 04/11/2001

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Here's another article where a ten thousand year old newspaper is said to have been found from Atlantis, same publication:
http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/conspiracies/57354

It sort of reminds me of the Kennedy assasination where we see that it is one thing to murder a President (or human), but another thing to be able to cover it up.

When we look at the lost time of 2575 years for Atlantis research without proof of all the sightings claimed,pictures drawn, locations theorized, it sure smells like that "other thing".

Only Governments can cover up to TOP LEVEL.

Here we are trying to find the Truth and open to change and discussion which almost seems like the battle of a few bonafide Atlantis researchers that are genuinely interested in the legend.

The others, we know who they are.

Those Dark Brothers that Thoth told us about. hee hee.

They are but puny parasites sucking the blood of innocent lives with Black eyes.

Boy, are they gonna be in for a surprise.

Go ahead, enjoy the money, and perversions.

They won't be able to afford the final payment.

quote:

---

"By the Dog of Egypt": Plato's Engagement with Egyptian Form, and the Scholarship of Cheikh Anta Diop

.....three of Diop's propositions: 1) that Plato is an optimist after the fashion of the Heliopolitan theology, 2) that the heritage of Egyptian civilization deserves greater attention as a Western heritage, and 3) that there are elements in the heritage of Egyptian education which tend to suppress the advancement of science.

In defending philosophy's right to speculate about its African origins, Diop begins with evidence provided by Plato himself in the Timaeus. In this dialogue, famous for its presentation of the Platonic doctrine of forms, Plato gives ample reason to take seriously the sophistication of the Egyptian civilization and its influence upon Greek culture. We are told that Athena has an Egyptian double, that Egyptian priests taught the Greeks their own history, and that the very form of Timaeus's narrative is modeled after the fashion of Egyptian education. Given these connections, why may we not speculate that the doctrine of forms itself is an Egyptian loaner, kept alive by Alexandrian scholars for centuries before and after Plato?

In order to leave ample time for discussion, let me quickly share with you the five points that we have on authority of Plato's Timaeus:

1. That Athena is the Greek name for a goddess who is also worshipped in Egypt under another name (21, p. 34).
2. That the Egyptians were friendly with the Greeks (21, p. 34).
3. That the Egyptian priests knew the meaning behind Greek myth better than the Greeks knew it (22, p. 35).
4. That Egyptian traditions are the oldest preserved (23, p. 35) and that therefore Egypt was the source of historical knowledge for Greece (23, p. 36).
5. That the very form of the narrative delivered by Timaeus is modeled after the traditional Egyptian education, deriving from cosmology the other sciences and principles of health, etc. (24, p. 37).
The cumulative effect of these observations leads me to the general conclusion that Egypt nourished Greek culture for centuries before Plato was born and that Egyptian education provided the model for Timaeus's lengthy explication of the cosmological order.

We recall that the dialogue is taking place because Socrates wants to see the ideal principles of society put into fleshy motion, and this is what Timaeus's doctrine of forms refuses to do.

---

There's another plus for the side of Truth. If Plato was telling a fictional "IDEAL UTOPIA" of Greece, why did he admit the Greeks lack of historical knowledge and the establishment of the superior Atlantis or Egypt?

Seems like some rain fell on that day of Apeturia.

Sure, the Greeks were the "remaining" warriors, but, they were not the "Only" warriors.

Her pre-eminence was based solely on victory which was also related to the earth sinking.

Most of them show an island in front of the Pillars.

http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/EMwebpages/EML.html

Of course, all governments are corrupt, and I have no real information on what the U.S. and Russian submarines may have uncovered at the bottom of the ocean. Yet, with respect to the Russians, we do know that 1974 was the height of the Cold War, and they have always been prone to exaggerating their accomplishments. Interesting that they took over two hundred pictures of the site, yet all seem to have disappeared.

---------------------------------------------

Author: DrAlmagro (213.37.79.---)
Date: 18-Feb-05 06:30

Dear Riven: in agreement, the Georgeo's theorie is different from hers, nobody has tried to say the opposite.

Only I have limited myself to remember the readers who exist another theory on the Greek origin of the name of Atlantis. You say:

quote:

---

Quote:

"Solon translated this ace epanateilantos > anateilantos > ateilantos > atilantos > atlantos > atlantis.

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Is too many suppositions. It is very little probable that these phonetics deformations have happened. In any case, you do not have nor single proof of the existence of those assumptions and imagined phonetics changes.

I am going to demonstrate that its hypothesis on the Egyptian origin of the name of Atlantis, from Ta-Tenen is not correct. I will lean in excellent the lexicographical, linguistical ethymological and studies of the investigator and scriptologist Hispanic-cuban Georgeos Diaz-Montexano.

Atlantos is a masculine name (Atlantos masc gene sg, of Atlas), whereas the name of Atlantis is feminine (Atlantis fem nom sg of Atlantis) For example: "the Atlantic sea", in feminine. Whereas the other names imagined by you as ateilantos and atilantos jamçás existed in the Greek language. In fact, not language exists in all Greek old neither in no of his dialectos no word that begins like ateil- or atil -. it is not possible to be constructed to a hypothesis on a possible evolution of words or sounds, putting in in the supposed transformation, two words that do not exist in the Greek, and that more likely never have existed, having like principle that does not exist any word that begins like ateil- or atil-.

anateilantos, derives from anatellô, and it was never used as it forms equivalent alternative or of no Greek word that it had to do with Atlas, Atlantos or Atlantis. Therefore, as it demonstrates to Georgeos Diaz in his publications, Critias affirms that Solón translated the original names atlanteans to the Greek, because it verified that the Egyptians had done the same before.

Then, as Georgeos Díaz-Montexano demonstrates, if names of personages Greek (as it notices Critias), are translation by meaning of words atlanteans, we must then to look for first meaning of names in Greek, to be able to know as would be form of these names in Egyptian or in language of atlanteans, that apparently by the testimony of the only name atlantean that it leaves Plato (Gadeira = Cadiz, Sapain), had then to be a language become related with the languages phoenicians.

Atlas, Atlantos and Atlantis, in the Greek language, only can be translated like "to support", "to hold", "to endure", "patient" and "steadfast", but the Atlas name, Atlantos or Atlantis, never could be used by Solón as translation of "rise" or "risen". Of than 149 words registered the more in the Greek language to express "rise" or "risen", and their synonymous words, never were used Atlas, Atlantos or Atlantis nor no other than it began with Atl-. Therefore, is completely impossible that Solón finds translated (or created) the word Atlantis, Atlantos or Atlas, starting off of the Egyptian name Ta-Tenen, "the Raise Land".

Not even this Ta-Tenen word is a correct transcription. The only similarity which it exists in the Egyptian language (according to consists more in lexicon updated of Egyptian old) he is tA-tw-nn (Tatunen) or tA-T-nn, that is transcribed like "Ta-Tje-nen", but does not mean "fundamental Risen Land/Earth or risen hill", as you affirm, you are simply the name of a divinity of the vegentación and everything what arises from the interior of the Earth, and for that reason it is related to the myth of the primordial hill, but the word by itself is not translated as "fundamental Risen Land/Earth or risen hill".

Its ethymological translation is - according to Georgeos Diaz -, "the Tu-nen, or Tje-nen Land", that is to say, "the Land of the God Tunen or Tjenen", name who ethimologically means, "the one of the Rush", or "the Rush". For that reason it appears in his name, written in hieroglyphics, two canes or rushes.

It is absolutely impossible that Solón has translated the name of the "Land of the God tA tw-nn or tA T-nn" by the name of the "God Atlas", and its derivatives Atlantos and Atlantis, because these Greek words do not have any semantical nor ethymolical relation with the meaning of the Egyptian name of the God Tunen or Tjenen.

As it demonstrates perfectly to Georgeos Diaz, a God in all the Egyptian mythology only exists that could be translated or be compared by Greek with the God Atlases, and that God is, indeed Schu, the God - that like Atlas -, "to to bear", "to support", "to hold" or "to endure" the vault or sphere of the sky on its shoulders.

Georgeos Diaz-Montexano proposes in addition the complete list to Egyptian words that Solón could have translated by Atlas, and as it can be verified does not exist Ta-Tenen, Ta-Tunen or Ta-Tjenen, because this name does not have any meaning associated to the Greek Atlas name and its derivatives Atlantos or Atlantis.

Their hypothesis, Mr. Riven, do not have sense. She is not scientist, and it would not have to be taken in serious by whom truely it feels respect by the common sense and the scientific method. I say this with absolute respect by his person. He does not consider a subject personal. Simply my to have and obligation he is to be from the search of the honest truth, by means of the common sense and the scientific rigor. I expose next several articles on ethymological and lexicographical work of Georgeos Diaz-Montexano, published already beams about four years and disclosed by its secretary Maria Fdez-Valmayor in this forum and others of Internet.

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The Name Original de Atlantis. Linguistic reconstruction.

Jonas investigator Bergman de AtlantisRising.com defends the old theory of?Atlantis in Morocco. Between their main arguments are the geographic comparisons and the names. Jonas Bergman raises the hypothesis that the Semitic word (in this Hebrew case) Salah or Shelah, is the same word that Solón translated to Greek Atlas and Atlantis. According to Bergman, these words mean "to to bear, to lift up, to weigh, to balance". Bergman tries with this to relate to the old city phoenician of Room with the own city of Atlantis. Nevertheless, as we see after the cuatros meant that he exposes Bergman, single both last are correct. And these do not appear between the meaning of the Greek word Atlas. That they say the dictionaries on the matter? Let us see proofs: Shelah (Sheh'-lakh) = "sprout". Proper Name Masculine. An they are of Arphaxad and to father of Eber. (The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon) Whereas Shalah = "happy", "to prosper", "safety"; "decive"; "away"; "amiss". Other related words are Shalat, "dominion", "to power", "rule", "ruleth", and Shelet, "shields". In Hebrew Shalat: to primitive root; to dominate, i.e. govern; by implication, to permit : - - (to to bear, have) rule, have dominion, give (have) to power. These definitions do not fit with the one of a word that was used the same for "suffering, to?soportar? and to?padecer punishment, that to?aguantar a load or weight, like Atlas was it the Greek word. Shalat cannot be translated by the Greek Atlas of any way, and less still, existing in the semíticas languages other words, truely equivalent to the Greek Atlas. The Greek single Atlas can be a translation of the Sbl Semite (S?b?l) who is used with these same meaning. In the Hebrew and Greek dictionary one says that Shlet (shel-it ties ') is a voice Aramaic that, corresponding to ' shalat ': - - have the mastery, have to power, to bear rule, be (make) to ruler. That is, nothing that to see with the translation of the Greek word Atlas. As he can see itself, Jonas investigator Bergman is not going to obtain to nothing serious nor important, with respect to Atlantis in Morocco, using the hypothesis of the word Salah or Shelah like original name of Atlantis.

On the other hand, the name is not due to forget that Room, appears registered like Roman or Latin name, not as they phoenician. In Latin Room, it would be "(city) Salty" or "the Salty sea"; of the Latin Salt, "salt", "the salt to water", "brine", "is". By this same root we have in the southwest of Iberia, between Andalusia and Portugal, the old city of Salacia, which in coins had like symbols, exactly to the God Poseidôn. The city of Room, in Morocco, would be then the "Salty City". In the western coasts of Morocco, everything full of salt. Any inhabitant of the place can give testimony of as the salt is throughout. Anyway, as any Greek nor Roman appointment does not exist that to afir me that the name of Room was phoenician or indigenous, because single we can accept like the more serious and rigorous the hypothesis that Room is the name that the Romans gave that city. Its original name to the arrival of the first Romans would be another one, that has not sobrevido the passage of the Roman colonization and the time. On the other hand, in any dialecto Libyan-bereber Room either does not mean anything similar to the meaning of the Greek voice Atlas. If Jonas Berman knows some example convincing, because it would not have to delay in showing that example to be able to illustrate to all the readers and students.

I cannot include/understand of as dictionary has removed to Jonas Bergman who Salah and Shelah mean "to to bear, to lift up. In fact Sl' (pronounced saw-law' http://club.telepolis.com...sonidos/saw-law_jonas.mp3 ) means "comparable" and comes from a primitive root; "to suspend in a balance", i.e. "weigh": - - "it compares". S'l'h (Salah) also is, "down", "foot", "valued". To primitive root; to hang up, i.e. weigh, or (figuratively) contemn : - - tread down (to under foot), value. S'l'h (Selah): from ' Salah '; suspension (of music), i.e. slows down : - - Selah. Sl' (Selá, pronouncing seh'-lah http://club.telepolis.com...deiros/sonidos/sehlah.mp3 )"hold", "rock", "stones": from an unused root meaning to be lofty; to craggy rock, literally or figuratively (to fortress) : - -(ragged) rock, stone(-ny), strong hold.

These definitions - as much of "Shelah" as of "Salah" -, analyzed from languages semíticas aramaic and hebrew, not fit with the one of word that was used the same for "suffering", "supporting" and "to suffer" punishment, that stops "to hold a load or weight", like the Greek word Atlas. Shelah nor Salah can be translated by the Greek name Atlas of no way. The Greek name single Atlas could have translated of an Egyptian word that had translated as well to one word like the Semite whose S'b'l, whose Sbl root, was used with such meant shared which the Greek word Atlas.

As anyone can verify by itself, Jonas investigator Bergman is not going to obtain nothing serious nor important - with respect to Atlantis going to the erroneous hypothesis of Salah or Shela of Morocco like the name of which supposedly the name of Atlantis would be originated. Jonas Bergman would have to be looking for another history to count, because this story of Shela/Salah = Atlantis, already has been finished. I say it with all my respect, and a tone of healthful humor. Now its turn to another word corresponds to him, to another more objective and real hypothesis: S'b'l (S'bael) = S'bila; Latin Sebilla = Seville. The most important city of the Southwest of Spain, and that the old sources of the Spanish and Arab historians said that it was the oldest city of Iberia, the first founded city.

Seville this in the Guadalquivir river, and the antiquity the boats arrived until the own city, due to the ample and navigable channel of rio Baetis. It is very possible that when submerging the primitive city of Sebila, that is to say, the Acropolis sacred which Solón translates like Atlantis, which was to single about 9 kilometers of the coast, the survivors transferred its capital towards a moved away point more of the coast, but right to where the boats could arrive to continue with their expeditions and the marine commerce. The heart of the Tartésico kingdom is located nowadays, indeed, near Seville. They tartesian more famous treasure is the one than it was discovered in "the Carambolo", Seville. The own Romans called to Seville, "Italica" and "Rome" in their older currencies; being the only city of all the Roman empire to which they denominated with those names. Because the Romans would give the names of their country, "Italica" and "Rome", to a city of Iberia? The single answer could be, because the Romans knew the own natives ibero-tartessians that this city was - as they affirm to the medieval historians the oldest and more important city of all the oocidente of Europe; the capital of Iberia or Hispania. The Arabs still called to Italica with a form that remembered its original name, "Ysbiliya" (pronouncing " Ysbeeliya ": http://club.telepolis.com...iros/sonidos/ysbiliya.mp3 ), since they phoenician form or semítica would be "Y-sbael-ya", "the S'bal Island", that is to say, "the island of which it Supports, of that which Endure, of that which Holds". According to the Spanish historians and philologist of this Arab form of "Ysbiliya", it derived the present name from Seville. Whereas the Romans also called to "Italica" with the name of "Hispal" or "Ispal" (according to the sources); without a doubt, a variant of the same original name from which it derived the Arab, "Ysbilya" or "Isbiliya". The Arabs trasmitieron one more a form nearer the original one phoenician or ibero-tartessian, because the Arabs speak a Semitic language, relative of the old one phoenician, reason why the original name of "Ys?bilya" or "Is?biliya" was easier to understand of the settlers hispanians to them; whereas the Romans spoke an Indo-European language, the Latin, whose phonetic structure is completely different from the semíticas languages. For that reason, the Romans transcribed "Ispali-s", instead of "Isbaelya", in the same way that the Arabs wrote "Ysban" and "ebhrikiya", where the Romans wrote "Hispan"/"Ispan" and Aphrica.

My theory is that the original name of Atlantis could be * Y-Sbael-ya by the semítica root sbl (s'bael) of which derive the forms " AaSB'eL ", " SaB, ", "SB'eL", "SB, aL", and "SeB, LaT" . All of them with the meaning of "suffer", "to to bear", "to support", "to endure", "hold"). He is peculiar, but in Spain still it exists the Semitic last name Bi-Sbal, that would be "son of Sbal", or" son of whom, "to Bear", "to Hold" or "to Suffer". These roots are in the language aramaic. "Aramaic is the ancient language of the Semitic family group, which includes the Assyrians, Babylonians, Chaldeans, Arameans, Hebrews, and Arabs. In fact, to large part of the Hebrew and Arabic languages is borrowed from Aramaic, including the Alphabet." (to see http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/aramaic_language.html ) Therefore, to reconstruct old words of possible Phoenician origin he is very recommendable to guide itself by the arameo lexical, nonsingle by the Hebrew.

Let us see the meaning of raiz SBL in the semíticos and dialectos languages aramaics, and Hebrew:

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Sbl: "to to suffer", "to support", "to carry", "to porter". (Syr. Dialectos Christian, Palestinian and Aramaic)

Sbl: "to carry", "endure". (Dialectos Christian, Palestinian and Aramaic)

S'b'l: to primitive root; to carry (literally or figuratively), or (reflexively) be burdensome; specifically, to be gravid: -- to bear, be to burden, carry, strong to labour. (Hebrew)

Sb'l: from (S'b'l); to load (literally or figuratively): - - they burden, charge. (Hebrew)

Sb'l (Aramaic Word): corresponding to S'b'l; to erect: - - strongly laid. (Hebrew)

Sbl (Aramaic Word): "to to suffer", "to bear", "to support". (Dialectos Babylonian and Talmudic)

Sbl: "to carry", "endure". (Dialectos Christian, Palestinian and Aramaic)

Sbb'l: from S'b'l; to porter: - - (to to bear, to bearer of) burden(-s). (Hebrew)

Sb'lh: from Sb'l; porterage:--burden. (Hebrew)

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Atlas also meant the one that "undergoes, supports or experiences difficulties"; literally, "endure", "the one that is submitted". Then it is that also the old semítica form is known, Sbr (SaYB'aR HTTP://club.telepolis.com...deiros/sonidos/SaYBaR.mp3 ). Thus then, one old semítica form like "Y-Saybar-ya" (that would be pronounced approximately like "YSaYBaRya" HTTP://club.telepolis.com...ros/sonidos/ysaybarya.mp3 ) and that signficaría "the land of that which Endure", could with the passage of time - and several conquest and colonization of foreign towns of Indo-European origin, like the Greeks, celtas and Romans to transform itself into the sonorous variant, "Ysbeerya", that some Indo-European towns as the Greeks would understand like Ibêr or Ibêria, without the s (that in Greek would be pronounced like "eeber" and "eebereea" HTTP://club.telepolis.com...iros/sonidos/eebeeria.mp3 ), according to the phonetical english), and other towns as the Carthaginians would understand like "Y-sbael-ya", by confusion with the other semítica root of similar meaning Sbl (sbal or sbel). Later the Romans would understand this carthaginian variant of * Y-sbael-ya "like" Ispal "or" Hispali ". A pronunciación quite near the old Phoenician form or Carthaginian had to survive until the medieval age, because loscomo or we have seen, the Arabs called to the old Italica or Roman Ispalis, with the name of "Ysbilya". Of the custom of the Hispanic-musulmanians to listen to and to pronounce this semítica variant, "Ysbilya", and product of the mixture with the Romance forms derived from Latin and the sprouting of castilian language, would be ended up losing and or the initial I, being left the pronuncianción single like * S'bilya, or also by a phenomenon very known in linguística, that denominates "metatesis", that it is the transposition or interchange of sounds within a same word like for example, Latin "mîraculo", that was transformed into the Spanish "mîlagro"; this way, primeta and or I would happen to occupy a second place behind the S, being in "Sibilya", forms this that is documented like previous to the present name of Seville.

Philologist Spanish has explained the origin of the name of Seville - through the sources conserve-from the Arab "Ysbiliya" and this form from Latin * the Hispalia, Hispali or Ispal, but never they had included/understood from where the Roman name of Hispal came, because this is not a word of the Latin. One knew that it had to be the Roman or adapted form to the Latin of some indigenous name of the place, but nobody before had discovered as it could be that indigenous form. My theory raises a possibility that goes merely beyond the probable thing. The analysis of texts of Plato could be the key of the remote origin of the name of "Seville" or "Ysbiliya", as the original name of the city and region that Solón translated like Atlantis and that according to the dialogues of the Kritias, its name had taken from its first king, whose original name, in Phoenician or semítica language, would be then * Sbal, * Sbael or * Sebil, that is to say, "there am Supports, there am Endure, there am Holds, there am Suffer"

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http://club.telepolis.com...dos/arameo_atlantis2.html
Comparative table of the evolution of the name of Seville (Atlantis)
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To these evidences we would have to add in addition, that another semítica root exists present in the old dialectos Aramaic, Babylonian, Talmudic, paleo-Christian, and Palestinian, that would also explain the true origin and meaning of the name of Tarte-ssós or Tarshish, name that received the kingdom or commercial empire that dominated in the same geographic area where the city of Ispalia, Ysbilya or Seville settled down. This Semitic word is Trsy (pronounced like Tarsiy HTTP://club.telepolis.com...deiros/sonidos/TaRSiY.mp3 , and like Tarsea HTTP://club.telepolis.com...deiros/sonidos/TaRSeA.mp3 ), and besides to explain the origin of the name of Tarschish or Tartessós, as we see next, also agrees with one of the meaning of the Greek word Atlas.

First we will make a brief analysis of the name of Tartessós, that is a Greek variant. Old the Greeks used like suphije behind the names of cities and countries the word - ssós, that according to seems meant "country of" or "land of", like the city of Kno-ssós of Crete. By consequence the name that the Greeks had to really listen would be something similar to * Tarte. Forms derived from this name are known registered by the Roman authors like Turdetania and Turthetani and Turdulos. Like the completions - tani and - also they are used them by the Romans, like Greek - ssós, to designate "country of" or "region of", because then we remained again with the word * Turde or * Turthe, but like we have seen that the vowels changed in the different variants from the same name, because we reduce the root to * T'rth. This way we arrived at a form quite similar to the registered one in the Old Testament like Trshy (Tarshis). In the main lexicos and dictionaries it is assumed that this name is a word of foreign origin. And most of the scholars for centuries they have been identifying to the Biblical Tarshish with the Tarte-ssós of Iberia. Therefore, the original form iberian of the name that the Greeks registered like Tartessós, and the Hebrews like Tarschish or Tarshys, had to be * T'rth. But that meant really this word? The Greeks do not say to anything on their meaning nor the Romans, and either the Hebrews. Nevertheless, it would be logical to think that its original meaning would be very similar to one of the names that later the Romans used to denominate to Iberia, as he can be Hispan-ia, Hispal-ia or Ispal-ia. We have seen that a great possibility that exists the primitive name that evolved until becoming Seville was "Ysbaelya" (thanks to the Arab medieval authors), and as this name could probably derive from another old Semitic name ( they phoenician) like * Y-sbl-yA, "the S'bal Island", that is to say, "the Support island; the Endure Island; the Hold Island ". Then if my theory is valid, and journeys by good footpaths, then we would have to hayar another similar Semitic root in phonetics to iberian root * T'rth or * T'rs, that formed the original name of Tarschis or Tartessós... Then indeed, in the old dialectos Aramaic, Babylonian, Talmudic, paleo-Christian and Palestinian, I have discovered already mentioned root of Trsy, that was pronounced in old aramaic of two forms: Tarsea, and Tarsiy. And this Semitic root was used to denominate, exactly to which "it supports", "maintains" or "it supports", "support" (thus appear in the old version aramaic of the New Testament in? Mattai - 6:26; Luqa - 12:24; Ephesians - 5:29). This word since we have seen, agrees with others of the meaning by the other Semitic root "S'bael", and with another one of the semantic values of the Greek voice "Atlas". The circle is closed.

Hispal or Ispal, Roman name of Seville, city located in the geographic and neuralgic center of tartessian kingdom, was the Latin or Roman form of the Semitic name * Ysbaelya, documented by the Arabs like "Ysbiliya", and whose meaning would be "the S'beel Island", that is to say, "the Support island; the Endure Island; the Hold Island "; whereas on the other hand, Tartessós would be the Greek form and Turdetani and Turthetani the Roman forms of the other Semitic name T'rth (* Tarthee) whose meaning could be the one that "it supports", "it maintains" or "it supports", "support". In the same language aramaic exists the form Tarsiyt'uon (HTTP://club.telepolis.com...s/sonidos/TaRSiYT'uON.mp3 )como variant of Tarsiy, whose pronunciación could have originated the Greek form Tartessón, although Polibio (Pol. 3.33.9) it mentions the Greek form "Thersi"(HTTP://club.telepolis.com...deiros/sonidos/Thersi.mp3 ), which corresponds with aramaic Tarsiy. Of this way, we have two old names of Iberia, * Ysbaelya and * Tharthee, with meaning similar, that agrees as well with the meaning of the Greek word Atlas.

As all already we know, Solón translated the names of the places and personages from the Egyptian to the Greek, because these had also done it from the indigenous language of atlanteans; therefore, the name of Atlases and Atlantis is not the original name of the island and civilization that bloomed next to the Columns of Hercules or Straits of Gibraltar. But as also we know what means the Atlas name in Greek, we can then reconstruct the original name of this famous civilization. And thus it is since we have arrived up to here. Even this point where we have been able to recognize and to identify to the old names of Seville and Tartessós, like the original names that the Egyptians later translated to their language and the Greeks to hers with the name of Atlases, and Atlantis. But in spite of everything, somebody could ask on which security we can have of which the names that the Egyptians translated the Egyptian were Semitic or phoenicians. Then, I have an answer. Solón it notices that the Greek names are not the true names, but translations that made of the Egyptian names, and these were translations of the names as well atlanteans, but Solón was the careful to leave one of the original names atlanteans, perhaps so that it was left a testimony that could serve to the readers and students to be able to determine the language of atlanteans, and of course its nationality and geographic origin. Of all the names that Solón had ahead at the time of writing up its work, it chose one and it left it in the narration, and this name was indeed the one of the region of Gadeiros and Gadeira, the name of the old region and city phoenician of Gadeira, the Roman Gades and present Cadiz. A region within the kingdom or lines up of * Tarthei or * Tharsi (Tartessós); region that closely was related - commercially with the interior of the river Baetis or Baitis (Guadalquivir) and the zone where the city of * Ysbaelya or old Seville was located, as they demonstrate the archaeological sources to it. The name of Gadeira is also of Semitic origin, as they testify some Roman sources. Solino and Plinius affirm that she was phoenician name. Therefore, if the name of Gadeira were atlantean name, according to it affirms to Plato through Kritias (and this according to Solón), then the language of atlanteans would be one old language semitíca. Therefore, the orginales analyses that we have made that allows to reconstruct the meaning of the old names of Seville and Tartessós as Semitic forms, are not separated from the logic and the way drawn up by own words of Plato and other old Roman authors. Gadeira was phoenician name, therefore, they semitian; * Ysbaelya = Seville, is semítica word, and * Tharsi = Tartessós also is of semítico origin.

Conclusion: original name which the Egyptians translated to the Egyptian language of the civilization located next to the Columns of Hercules (Gibraltar), could be * Y-tharsei-ya or * Y-sbael-ya. The semíticas roots, * Sbael and * Tharthei - in anyone of the two cases they could be translated by the Egyptians by names like "support", "to to bear", "the one that it supports, it maintains or it loads"; "the one that serves as support and you maintain"; "to to suffer, to hold, to support". Later Solón (as it affirms Kritias) would translate one of these two names (or both simultaneously) by the Greek Atlas name, since this era the only masculine own name that such presented/displayed meaning that the roots * Sbael and * Tharthei.

Therefore, the Island or peninsula that Solón named like Atlantis or Atlantida, and that were located, just ahead, alongside and above same of the Columns of Hercules (Gibraltar), single could have been * Ysbaelya or * Ytharsiya, "the S'beel Island", that is to say, "the Support island; the Endure Island; the Hold Island ". The same Island or Peninsula of Iberia, Hispalia or Hispania.

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María Fdez-Valmayor
Secretary of "The Civilizations Origins Scientific Society" (C.O.S.S.) and "The Scientific Atlantology". http://Atlantis.sitio.net http://Georgeos-Diaz.sitio.net

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The Origin of the Name of Atlantis. Seville and Tartessos = Atlantis. (II Part)

Looking for the key words in lexicón of Perseus, by means of the option exact search (to avoid confusions) these have been the results:

Suffer (to suffer): For total 189 words whose definitions contain "to suffer". Of all between all these words, single otleô (relative of the word Atlas) with a frequency of use - in all the Greek Literature of 0 appears the form. It means, that a single case is not known nor this word like so. It is a word supposed or deduced like part or raiz of others. Eight more used by order they are: lambanô, eaô, tunchanô, pherô, paschô, apodidômi, aphiêmi and sumpherô.

Endure: For total 63 words whose definitions contain "endure". It appears the same previous form of otleô, with the same LF of 0 or -0. The explanation also in this case is the same one. Four more used by order they are: pherô, krateô, diapherô and tolmaô,

Bear (to bear): For total 233 words whose definitions contain "to bear". She appears registered Atlas between those not even of frequency 0. Of the 233 words the most used to express to bear ", "to bear", was agô, anaireô, diapherô, dunamai, echô, eimi, pherô, phulassô, sumpherô, tithêmi, chalepos. Being more widely used, by order: eimi, echô, dunamai, agô, pherô and tithêmi. The rest of the words was used not very often, less than others.

Support (to support): For total 131 words whose definitions contain "support". It does not appear the voice Atlas. Five more used by order they are: Epi, echô, krateô, diapherô and trephô. The rest of the words presents/displays a use LF.

Hold (to hold): For total 409 words whose definitions contain "hold". The word is not registered either Atlas nor their relatives. Five more used by order they are: echô, poieô, lambanô, archô and agô. The rest of the words also presents/displays a gradual LF of use.

Undergo: For total 20 words whose definitions contain "undergo". The word does not exist Atlas nor their relatives. Five more used by order they are: tolmaô, metaballô, hupechô, aeirô and tiô. In general líenas all the words present/display a frequency of use of average to almost null.

Echô and Agô were the words more used to define the concepts of "to Bear", "to Support" and "Hold". Echô appears between the words of maximum frequency of use for "to Bearr", "to Support" and "Hold". Agô appears between the words of high frequency of use for "to Bear", "to Support". Lambanô appears between the words of high frequency of use for "Suffer" and "Hold". Pherô appears between the words of high frequency of use for "Suffer", "to Bear" and "Endure", "Sumpherô appears between the words of high frequency of use for" Suffer "and" to Bear ". Diapherô appears between the words of high frequency for "to Support", "to Bear" and "Endure". Tolmaô appears between the words of high frequency of use for "Endure" and "Undergo".

Everything seems to indicate that the words of more frequent use to express three of the meaning attributed to the Atlas name, were Echô for "to Bear", "to Support" and "Hold" and Pherô for "Suffer", "to Bear" and "Endure". Peculiarly the medieval Spanish historians gather the tradition of which, the founder of Atlantis, who was all Iberia (according to Pellicer and Ossau; S. XVII), Phoro was called. And it was related to the God of the waters or Poseídôn. According to some it was the name Atlantean or Iberian-tartessian of the own Poseidôn, and according to others it was the true name or atlantean of Greek Atlas or Atlante. If Solón had had to translate a shared or common Egyptian word or phoenician whose meaning was those of "to Bear" and "Hold", then it must have used some of these names, Echô, Pherô or Diapherô, but never it would have been happened to him to translate such signifcados, indeed with a word like Atlas, of so little (not to say, almost null) frequency of use.

In any case, since we have seen, in no of the statistical lists of frequency of uses of Greek words it appears Atlas nor Atlante, which demonstrates of unquestionable way, the extreme peculiarity of the use of the word Atlas and their relatives to express these meaning. This simple statistical analysis demonstrates that the probabilities that Solón had chosen the Atlas name to translate these meaning are very excasas. It is practically impossible that Solón used the Atlas name to translate these meaning, because this word was not even between those of little or little use. The only explanation possible that Solón has used the Atlas name, to translate some of these meaning, would be to accept that vió forced to resort to this name like only way to translate a concept that single was translatable through the voice Atlas and Atlante. But as it would be that unique concept of the Atlas name?

Then the only word associated to the Atlas meaning that appears between the words of high frequency of use is tlêmôn, "patient", "steadfast". This word appears in the registry of "patient", between a for total 41 words whose definitions contain "patient" with a maximum frequency of 182. And one is in the fifth position of five more used. In this same group of words used for "patient", it appears with a single maximum frequency of 9, another word Atlas relative, tlêtos, "patient, steadfast in suffering or labour". Exactly this is the definition more used by the Greek authors of the antiquity to describe to the God Atlas and to their "punishment" or "suffering" to load on its shoulders the weight of the sky, as a fixed axis or stand and of way steadfast. It does not have to be a simple coincidence that once again same semítica root S'B'L' of "to Support", "to Bear", "to Hold", "Endure" and "Suffer", also comprises of the Hebrew word Sblnth (pronounced approximately like Sebilaanoth: http://club.telepolis.com...os/sonidos/sebilanoth.mp3 ), exactly to express "Patience"; whereas "Patient", in Hebrew, is also Sblny (approximately it is pronounced like Seb'laany).

Without a doubt some, if Solón decided to use the Atlas name to translate an Egyptian name or phoenician would be because this name would mean "patient", "steadfast", "steadfast in suffering or labour". The search of the word "steadfast" offers a for total 31 words whose definitions contain "steadfast". Of all of them, tlêmôn appears again between those of greater frequency of use (182). Occupying again the fifth place of seven more used. What the frequent use of this voice confirms relative of Atlas and Tlaô for "steadfast". A fundamental quality of the God Atlases that are described by most of the oldest authors, previous even to Solón. Atlas was the God that was "steadfast" in the Earth border, in the West; "steadfast in suffering or labour" of "to support" or "to maintain" the celestial sphere. And only the semitics root that it includes most of these meaning in if same, are the S-b-l root; the same one which it appears in the old name of Seville, "Y-Sbil-ya", and in the name adapted to the Latin of I-Spal-i or Hi-Spal-is, with which the Romans denominated to the same city of Seville.

(Extract of the Georgeo's book, "Atlantis in front of Gibraltar, in Iberia and Morocco").

María Fdez-Valmayor
Secretary of "The Civilizations Origins Scientific Society" (C.O.S.S.) and "The Scientific Atlantology". http://Atlantis.sitio.net http://Georgeos-Diaz.sitio.net

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The Origin of the Name of Atlantis. Seville and Tartessos = Atlantis. (III Part)

Georgeos have demonstrated to date to have more solid and but rigorous arguments, until archaeological tests under the sea in the same area in front of the Straits of Gibraltar of a civilization of several thousands of years before Solón with a development elevated enough similar to the cultures of the Age of the Bronze. Georgeos has shown in this site, photos of satellite and áereas where circular and semicircular constructions under the sea near Gibraltar are see.

Georgeos have demonstrated like already hiso before Âmador Juân dê lôs Rîos in 1924 and later Schülten that the geographic descriptions of Atlantis of everything what surrounds to the city and the plain fit prefectamente with the great rectangular plain of the Guadalquivir in Andalusia. But you whenever this comments to him it makes happen like which one has still not found out, and outside changes of conversation always repeating the same questions - as if a robot although these well have been responded in many occasions. In any case it seems that it will have to wait for you to that the book of Georgeos can be published in English. Since single then, perhaps, you get to admit that Georgeos has satisfactory explanations for all those questions and in addition much more solid arguments that his.

For example, Georgeos have discovered that in Egyptian, the "island or land of support, to suffer, of which it holds or it supports", also said Tartjesu or Tartchesu. In fact, the country of Schu, was pronounced in Egyptian, TArSchu, and the "country of the pillars of Schu", TArtjesSchu. that it says to me now, simple chances? On the other hand, according to Georgeos, the same Semitic raiz that appear in the name of Seville (Sbl and Sb) appears in Egyptian with such meant: Sb-n "support", Sf-n "to be patient", "log-suffering", "to to suffer", "to endure". The n, in old the Egyptian and almost all the old languages used to derive or to be confused with an l, reason why sb-n and sb-n could derive in sf-r and sb-r, the same raiz that appears in I-sbal-is or Ispalis. the f, the b and p interchange, which explicaria the passage of sfn to sbn within the own Egyptian language. Therefore, also in the old Egyptian language is explanation for old the name of Iberia Y-Sbl-ya (I-sbal-is or I-spal-is = Sebillia or Seville), whereas sbn could also originate the other name of Spain or Iberia, Egyptian aY-Sbn-wy could derive in the Phoenician Y-sban-ya that is, Isbania or Ispania. In all the cases, always one appears to Spain or Iberia like "pais of which to support, to to suffer, to endure, to hold, to be patient", the true Atlas attributes.

Also in the old Egyptian language the Sp root mean "to suffer"; TArtTes = "the one that to to suffer and to support"; TArtA = "the one that hold and to endure". In addition you continue using the method of the evación, to become the distraido one, the one that do not find out or the idiot, although. I believe that you truely very ready are, and for that reason the idiot becomes. I say this, because of all the solid evidences and argumentations against his hypothesis that Georgeos presents in its work and which I have placed partly here in this forum, single you indeed comment that that you can use, being ambiguous or very weak. You for example, one clings to a single translation - nonauthorized by no serious dictionary of the Hebrew), that is to say, lift clings to "to", indeed a meaning that does not appear in any Greek dictionary like pertaining to the word Atlas.

Georgeos in its book quote:

"... Estêban de Bizancîo describes to a promontory or end located between the Columns of Hercules and the Guadalquivir with the name of Tarseión, apparently related to a variant of the name of Tarte-ssós or Tarschish, registered by the Greeks like Thersi, and also related to the name of a city, that according to the known Arab author like the "Môro Rassis", was to two miles of Cordova, to borders of the Guadalquivir, near Seville, and whose name was indeed the one of Tarsis. In relation to this name of Tarsis, the Latin sources mention to a famous cortesana from Hispania, called Tarsis and Tarsilas, that offered its services of pleasing and love to the leader carthaginian, Hannibal. The first patriarchs of the Christian Church identified Tartessós with the Tarschisch, in Latin Tarsis, of the Old Testament. Eusebio de Cesarea affirmed that Julîus Afrîcanus, that it lived a.d. in century III, said that the Spaniards descended from Tarsis. The Génesis says that Tarsis was son of Iavân and grandson of Iaphet, that is identified with the Iaphetos of the Greek Theogonia, father of Atlas or Atlante, with which we have another indication of the relation between Tarsis and Atlas or in this case, of tartessian them like relatives of the same Atlas predecessor. Old the Hebrews also called to the chrysolita precious stone with the name of Tarschisch and Plinius in its "Natural History" affirms that, this mineral one was original of Iberia, where in addition it was the place of greater abundance of the same one. The exiliados Jews of the Medieval Age called to Iberia or Spain like Sprd (Siphâred) by the Sfr root or Sphr that in the lexicons in Latin is translated like "legis sacrae", "libris sacri" and "Scripture" and in Greek editions like "tà hierà grammata", "sacred or santa writing" In chaldean Sphr (Sipher) means "book". The Jews sephardians had to know the hisórica tradition gathered by Strabon and Ephorus on which Iberia was the country that conserved annals of writing and laws written older of the world, according to Strabon of until more than 6,000 years, that is to say, of about 8,300 years BP. These annals and "written laws" conserved the Turdetani, that were the old descendants of the Tartessi. This demonstrates that already from the own classic antiquity Iberia she was considered as cradle of civilizations, at least as the written cradle of the writings and the "laws", so and as it describes Plato, when it speaks of the laws that the atlantes wrote on metallic laminae. This affirmation of Strabon indicates a great antiquity of Iberia like civilization that used the writing in times previous to even sumerian them and the Egyptians... "

Georgeos also have demonstrated that the Greek and Latin forms of the old kingdom of Tarschish or Tartessos exist as they are: Tartessi, Tarsis, Tarseios, Tarseion, Thersita, Tarsitaii, and Thersi that correspond with the semítica form Trsy, and which they could also be related to the Egyptian forms * tArSw (TarSchu)"Country or land of Schu", * tArTsw (Tartjesu)"Country of Soportes or Pilares" or * ' y-TArSw (Y-TarSchu)"Island of Schu, the one that to Sujeta or Sostiene"; "it supports", "maintains" or "it supports", "support" (thus to appear in the old version aramaic of the New Testament in? Mattai - 6:26; Luqa - 12:24; Ephesians - 5:29). This Word since we have seen, agrees with others of the meaning by the to other Semitic root "S'bael", and with to another one of the semantic values of the Greek voice "Atlas".

Also Georgeos have discovered one old Roman form of the delayed time (they paleo-christian) of the name of Seville, this form is Spal-is, without Î or Hî, of "island", ahead. What the true root of the name of present Seville confirms that, was Spl- or Sbl -, since -îs is sufije Roman or Indo-European used to indicate "place, country or land of origin". love you more you still prove? perhaps have you arguments and demonstrate like which she has Georgeos, or better even?

As Georgeos in its book raises:

"... the Indo-European roots "to carry", "to support" and "to to bear" are * Per and * Bher, which gives back us to the name of I-beer-ia, which in in some Indo-European language of that they were spoken in the Iberian Peninsula, it could be Bheria, "the country of which, to support". Î ahead adaptation explains through of language Phoenician of "Island or Coast of", whereas sufije -îa or - yâ it can to explain, the same from Phoenician, that used to add it to the completions of names of places, like through Indo-European languages like Latin and Greek which also they used this sufije, in its form -îa, of "place, country or land of". ... "

Georgeos quote:

"... Iberia is one of the names that the Greeks gave the Iberian Peninsula (the Atlantis Nêsos de Plato), but in the Greek language this word does not find explanation satisfactory; in fact, it is considered like a nonGreek word. Therefore, it is very probable that, Î-Bêr-ia, outside the Greek adaptation of a name which they heard of the Phoenicians as it could be, * Y-Baer-ya, "the Island or Coast of (God) who to support" or simply, "the Suppor't Island", in relation to a divinity that would do of pounding and support of the sky like the Greek Atlas, and the Egyptian Schu, or in relation to the Pillars or Columns of the Straits of Gibraltar, that also was known like the "Atlas Columns", and long before, like the "Columns of Chronos or Saturnus" and like the "Columns of Briareo", name this in that the Indo-European root * Bher is observed, the same one that is in the name of Î-Bêr-ia. According to Diodorus Siculus, the first king of the atlantes had been Uranos, that governed on the coasts of the Oceáno, towards the north. This first king atlantean, had two children: Chronos and Atlas. Avieno confirms this affirmation of Diodorus, when it says that ls Tartessians adored the God Saturnus, that is the same Chronos of the Greeks. As far as king Atlas, according to Diodorus, this it reigned on Monte Atlas, Hesperia or Iberia and the country of the Hyperboreans, identified by the French scholar D'Arbois de Jubainville with the region of the Galia. Opinion this that enough has been accepted by many other scholars. Therefore Plinius mentions to the town of the Cambolectres, to which Atlanteans calls, near the Pyrinean Mts. In any case, Uranos was to prmer king of atlanteans or uranians, and this God reigned on the Atlantic coasts of the Ocean in the direction of the north, as it affirms Diodorus; whereas Theopompus affirms that the Atlantis was surrounded by two rivers, the Volupté and the Tristesse or Tirstesse, that is to say, the river Tartessi, the same one that Strabon says that in his time he was well-known like Baetis, the present Guadalquivir: "and as the river has two openings (Volupté and Tirstesse), it also dícese that the city of Tartessos, homónima of the river, was built formerly in the Earth placed between both, being called this Tartéside region." (Strabon 3.2)

Some authors also accept that the Annaku-ki name, that appears writing in one old tablet assirian of the time of Sargón de Akkad, approximately 4,800 years BP (inscription asiria published by Or Schröder, Kleinschrifttexte aus Assur, Leipzig, 1920), and that talks about to a remote country "beyond the superior sea, it is the name whereupon they assirian them denominated to Iberia. This name has been translated as "the country of tin and the silver", of the voice sumeria an-na, "tin", ku, "silver", "precious metal" and ki, "land". Nevertheless, nobody before had considered the possibility that, to the being the aglutinante language sumeria, could also be translated the name of An-na-ku-ki like "the country of holy stones or sacreds of the Sky", of An, "sky", na, "stone, rock", ku, "pure, santo, sacred" and ki, "land". This way, An-na-ku-ki, that country that "existed beyond the superior sea" (the Mediterranean), and that is identified with Iberia, it would be then, "the country of Santas or Sacreds Stones of the Sky", a name of the same name that the Greeks gave later to the Straits of Gibraltar like "Hêrakleus Stêlas", and the Romans like "Herculis Columns". In Greek Stêlê, "pillar", could derive from one old Indo-European root * Stei, "stone", since, in many dialectos Hindu-iranians "atala" is "stone" and "rock"; "to pound"; "hill"; "flat stone", and "wake". In fact, in most of the descriptions on the "Hêrakleus Stêlas", they affirm that these were two great rocks or elevated rocks, located before a other, in means of the Straits of Gibraltar. On the other hand, the Greek God Atlas is also described in some early sources like "the Pillar of the Sky". ... " (aim of the appointment of Georgeos)

María Fdez-Valmayor
Secretary of "The Civilizations Origins Scientific Society" (C.O.S.S.) and "The Scientific Atlantology". http://Atlantis.sitio.net http://Georgeos-Diaz.sitio.net

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The Origin of the Name of Atlantis. Seville and Tartessos = Atlantis. (IV Part)

If Plato - it affirms through Kritias- that the Greek names (as the one of Atlas) had been translated to the Greek from the Egyptian by Solón, since the Egyptians had also done it from the original language atlantean, because then it is necessary to reconstruct the original name. Georgeos has been first that has tried to do this, already makes a pair of years back Georgeos managed to reconstruct the previous form of the Atlas name between the Egyptians. Between the Egyptians a God exists that is identical in the symbolism and the characteristics to the God Atlas, is the God Schu.

But Georgeos also has explored other possibilities, within the Egyptian language, since Plato affirms that the translations became by the meaning of the words. This implies, that it is not necessary that the name used by the Egyptians to translate the original name of the Atlantis was the God Schu; if the Egyptians guided themselves by the meaning - as he affirms Plato -, then they could not resort to the Schu word that conforms the name of this twin divinity of the Greek Atlas, because in Egyptian Schu it does not share meaning with any of the meaning well-known and accepted of the Atlas name, derivative of the Greek word "tlaô" (I suggest to consult the lexico of Perseus which he is most complete than he exists at the present time)

In Egyptian exist several words to express the meaning of the Greek word Atlas, "to support", "to hold", "to endure", "patient"; as they appear associate and used by the words of the Atlas family: tlaô, tlêmôn and tlêtos. Georgeos has discovered in the Egyptian language, that exist several same words that were also used to express these meaning and these are tA, TAr, Tsi, Ts, and sTsw (among others). The combination of TAr, "to hold" to + the rest of the voices, throws phrases or names composed like the following ones: TAr-Tsi (Tjar-tjesi), "the pillar or support that hold" or "the one that hold and support". The same translation is admitted for the other cominaciones: TAr-Tsw (Tjar-tjesu); TAr-sTsw (Tjarstjesu) and tA-r-Tsw (Tartjesu), and all of them remember - inevitably the old name of Tartessos and Tarschish, the oldest kingdom of the West of the old world, and that was in Iberia, surrounding to the Columns of Hercules or Gibraltar.

Other possible Egyptian forms would be the same words mentioned but instead of TAr, "to hold", ahead, because with the combination of TA + r, that literally is translated like "country of". Therefore, we would have tA-r-Tsi (Tartjesi) and tA-r-Tsw (Tartjesu) like "the country of which it supports, to to suffer, it maintains or it holds". The hypothesis of Georgeos is that the Hebrew name of Tarte-ssos, which the Greeks transcribed of that form, and Phoenicians and like Tarschish, was the name that the Egyptians gave the empire of the West that reigned next to the pillars of the sky or pillars of Schu, the homologous one of Atlas.

Egyptian empire translated name original of this which it describes Plato (and who Solón translates like Atlantis), like Tjartjesw or TarTjesw, and later Solón when investigating in the meaning of these names, noticed that these names could be translated by the Greek name of Atlas or Atlantis, since last the meaning associated to these Egyptian names, allowed to translate anyone of these Egyptian names like Atlas and Atlantis, that is, "the country of which supports, to to suffer, maintains or holds". Although also the Egyptians could translate another name of Iberia, of sources Phoenician, that would be Y-Sbl-y (YSbilya), Ispal, Ispalis or Spalis, present Seville, since like he has also demonstrated Georgeos Sbl is a Semitic root that contain meaning of the Egyptian names TArTsi such, and tArsTsw, and such meant of the family of Greek names of Atlas, Atlantis, Tlaô, Tlêmôn and Tlêtos.

(Extract of the Georgeo's book, "Atlantis in front of Gibraltar, in Iberia and Morocco")

María Fdez-Valmayor
Secretary of "The Civilizations Origins Scientific Society" (C.O.S.S.) and "The Scientific Atlantology". http://Atlantis.sitio.net http://Georgeos-Diaz.sitio.net

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The Origin of the Name of Atlantis. Seville and Tartessos = Atlantis. (IV Part)

The Atlas identification with Schu is not a strongpoint in the theory of Georgeos, is a simple indication to consider. Single that. If you read better your contributions in this sense she would include/understand as the single speech of translations by meaning of the words - so and as she affirms Plato -, not of symbolic equivalences. According to Georgeos Solón it translated the name of Atlantis by the one of an Egyptian name that allowed this translation according to its semantic meaning, that is to say, that does not have anything to do whereupon Atlas was Schu, nor that the Atlantis was the country of Schu, because to you you have forgotten to him, that as affirms Plato, Solón translated the names from the Egyptian, by its meaning, because the Egyptians had the same done with the names atlanteans. Therefore, the original name of the Atlantis and atlanteans single we can know that it would mean something related to the "pillars", the "supports", and with the idea of "to support", "to endure", "patient", "steadfast", and "steadfast in suffering or labour". That affirmation of Solón demonstrates by itself, that it would be a stupidity to think about a possible war between Schu and Neith. Georgeos never has considered this possibility, indeed, reason why I finish exposing; because the affirmation of Solón does not allow to draw that conclusion, therefore, it does not worry you for that reason, that Georgeos will never consider this idea since it is not sustained with which it affirms Plato through Kritias.

The question are in asking, that town was that, that lived in the remote one on the West, next to the Columns of Hercules, and that maintained wars or attempts of colonization with the towns of the interior of the Mediterranean. Then Georgeos has an answer, that town were the own inhabitants of Iberia of the Age of the Bronze, also known like Tartessian or Ibero-Tartessian. Several references of the antiquity exist, like those of Diodorus Siculus, that they affirm that the old settlers of Iberia had colonized almost all the points of the Mediterranean, incluídas the Islands of Córcega, Sardinia, Sicily and until the own Tyrrenia peninsula, where founded the first populations before the first Latin or Roman ones arrived.

This affirms several authors to it of the antiquity to which a reasonable credibility is lent to them. In the book of georgeos these testimonies take shelter all. Any other reference does not exist nevertheless that speaks of colonizations or old conquests of other towns coming from the extreme West. This cannot be of any way, another simple chance. Everything aims towards a single direction! The Columns of Hercules, between Iberia and Morocco, the theory of Georgeos, but fundamentally Iberia as it cradles or main seat of the Atlantean empire.

According to which I have read of Georgeo's book, Georgeos reconstructs Atlantis from his beginnings, so and as it does Plato, that is to say, from origins, when times arose the first men (as Euenor) and still did not know the art the navigation, that is to say, from paleolithics, to the end of the empire Atlantis, that Georgeos locates between the end of the Average Bronze, and principles of the Final Bronze.

Georgeos think, that the aim of Atlantis happened in the times of Krekops, Erechtheus, Erichthonius and Erysichthon, since this is what Kritias affirms; that these were the kings who fought against the kings atlanteans, and this time is considered (even by the own authors of the antiquity) as few hundreds of years before the war of Troy and after the deluge of the Deucalion. That is to say, between the deluge and the times previous to Theseus, as it affirms Kritias. Approximately, according to old the chronology classic, this time settles down between the 1,450 and 1,300 BC.

At that time, Iberia was in its greater splendor like civilization of the Bronze. Probablmente the civilization tartessian, or was well-known with that same name, and right towards the 1300 B.C. The céltica civilization or Keltibera arises in Iberia.

1. Virgilius considered to the Ibero-Sicanians as the oldest settlers of the latium (it is to say of the peninsula Thyrrenian or Italian)

2. The Iberian origin of the Sicanians is confirmed by Thucydides, Denys Halicarnasse, Ephorus (quin affirms had been the first inhabitants of the Magnâ Greece (islands of Sicily and the Aegean) and Philiste de Syracuse.

3. Servius, in its "Antiques of the Latium or of Italy", affirms that "old" the Ibero-Sicanes "was the first inhabitants of the same city that later got to dominate the world". It affirms Servius that the Ibero-Sicanians, was the first colonizadores of old Rome.

4. Plinius, also confirms the data of the colonization of the Ibero-Sicanians on the Thyrrenian.

5. Denys Halicarnasse, counts up to two thousands of Iberos on the old inhabitants of priemra primitive Rome.

6. Canton affirms that still at the time in which they arose the Sicules (Sicilians) existed the Sicanians dominating on the Latium, until they were defeated by the Sicules.

7. According to Diómedes, the Iberian got to colonize until the coasts of the Adriatic, that is to say, until Asia.

8. According to Denys Halicarnasse, the Ibero-Sycanians was allied with the Pelasges and Tursanes (Etruscians) to fight against the Ombrios, Sicules and other towns egeans. According to this same author, the Ibero-Sicanians was those that gave name to the Tiber river and the old city of Tibur in the peninsula of the Latium or Thyrrenian.

9. Thucydides, affirms that ibero-sicanians when they colonized Sicily, they called Sicania, and thus he appears attested by Homero in his Odyssey, which confirms that the colonizations that made the Iberians in the direction of the interior of the Mediterranean, that is to say, towards the East, until the Thyrrenia and Asia, it was long before the times of Homero, and before the Phoenicians arrived at Iberia.

With complete certainty the Phoenicians learned the route towards Iberia, by the ibero-sicanos that knew in the islands of the Aegean and of the sea they thyrrenian, that already had been long time living in those islands, Asia and the Latium, like descendants of the old colonizadores iberians that would be such atlanteans of Plato, since this denomination is a mere translation by meaning.

In Homero, it is possible to be read:

"...to toigar egô toi panta mal' atrekeôs katalexô. eimi men ex- Alubantos, hothi kluta dômata naiô, anaktos huios Apheidantos Polupêmonidao: to autar emoi g' onom' estin Epêritos *: alla me daimôn planx' apo Sikaniês deur' elthemen ouk ethelonta... "

"... I will tell you everything, "answered Odysseus," clear truly. I eats from Alybas, where I have to fine house. Is a.m. are of king Aphidante Polypemonide. My own name is Epêrito; to daimôn drove me off my course ace I was leaving Sicaniê, and I have been carried here against my will... "

Since we have verified previously, existed a tradition rather hard on the origin iberian of ibero-sicanians that is, of the Sicanians; then in this fragment of the Odissea de Homero, one affirms that a city or a place of Sicania came from Alyba. Some authors think that Alyba or Alybê was some place near Troy, nevertheless, other authors of the antiquity affirmed that they were a place of Iberia, opinion that defends at the present time, the Spanish experts in classic languages, Elvira Gangutia Elícegui, Alberto Bernabé and Rosa Pedrero, among others, that think that Alibê or Aliba was the name that received an island in front of the Columns of Hercules or Gibraltar, as they demonstrate siguentes following fragments to it:

"... from very far, from Alibê, where it is the site (original place) of the silver... " (Ilias 2,854)

Traditionally that remote or distant place, where was the country or place of the silver, were the region of Tartessós of Iberia.

Anacreo Lyricus say:

"Alybê dè nêsos hupò tàs Hêrakleios stêlas, archê tou stomatos tês thalassês..."

"... Alyba is an island, on the feet (underneath) of the Columns of Hercules, in the beginning of the mouth... "

Almost the same words that use Plato when it says that the Atlantis island is in front of the mouth "...(Atlantis) nêson gar pro tou stomatos) of the Columns of Hercules. Therefore, Alyba or Alybê, of the country of Sicania, was another one of the names that the same island received that later Solón translated like Atlantis.

Also of Tartessós it was said: "Tartêssòs, dè nêsos pròs taîs Hêrakleíais Stêlais" (Schol. Lycophron, 643), and the same of the Island Oggigia, Erytheia, and Gadeira. All of them islands located in front of the same mouth of the Columns of Hercules. The same Anacreonte affirms in the same paragraph that Tartessós is next to Aliba, and that the Column of Hercules is called Alibê. Whereas Georgeos identifies the names of Aphida-nte (-nte is ending or sufije) and Epêri-to (-to is ending or sufije) with the names ibero-tartessians, Abides, king of Tartessós, whose name they know formas:Abis, Habis, Abidis and Habides. Whereas Epêrito, could be a bad trascripción of Eberi-to or Iberi-to, because the raiz -Br- or -Pr- is perfectly interchangeable in most of the languages. In any case, being these two names of Aphida-nte and Epêri-to (Abida-nte or Abide and Ebêri-to or Eberi) associated in the narration with those of Alyba and Sicania, both of origin iberian (according to the mentioned old authors, among others), because nothing preposterous would turn out to accept these two hypotheses.

10. These same authors affirm that the founder of Italy, was king Sicanian who was called Italo, and Diodorus affirms that these Sicanians was first that introduced agriculture in Sicily, of where it happened later to the Latium or Italy.

11. Pausanias also affirms that the founders of Sardinian were iberians, to the control of a king iberian Norax call, which founded the city of Nori, and of I finish there present of the culture of the Nuragas, whose constructions are very similar to which they are in the Balearic ones in Spain.

I have tried to argue a little the bases of the theory of Georgeos as far as the chronology of the towns that Solón translated like atlanteans, and that Georgeos is convinced that they were such ibero-tartessians or ibero-sicanians; these Georgeos towns chronological locate them during all the Age of the Bronze, but with a development of expansion and colonization that would extend by the Mediterranean as of the 2000 or the 1800 BC. Nonsingle these mentioned authors confirm, also archaeology, since most of the own elements of Iberia or which they are more abundant in Iberia of that time also are in the interior of the Mediterranean as they can be the "Glasses of Bell", "Atlantic bronze swords", "halberds" and "axes of Heel", and reasons for petroglifos that represent the scheme of the city of Atlantis, that is to say, concentric ring plus a channel that leaves from the center towards outside the ring outer; in specialized Literature Cup is called to them "and Ring" and "Channell" or "Stream". They are by almost all the Atlantic coast of Spain and Europe, but in no place of the world as much amount and frequency as in Iberia are with, fundamentally in the Atlantic coasts of Iberia, from Portugal to Galicia. And this it is the main symbol of atlanteans, according to defends Georgeos. To see the Georgeo's article (published in 1997):
http://usuarios.lycos.es/...ols/atlantean_symbols.pdf

(Extract of the Georgeo's book, "Atlantis in front of Gibraltar, in Iberia and Morocco")

María Fdez-Valmayor
Secretary of "The Civilizations Origins Scientific Society" (C.O.S.S.) and "The Scientific Atlantology". http://Atlantis.sitio.net http://Georgeos-Diaz.sitio.net

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Eliana García
Cádiz, Spain

Ta-Tenen is the Neter which symbolizes the emergence of the fertile Nile silt from the receding waters of the inundation. He is a Neter of the Earth, and His name reflects this in it's translation: 'exalted earth'.

During the Old Kingdom, Ta-Tenen became amalgamated with the Neter Ptah, and was viewed as a manifestation of the creator Neter Ptah as a creator. In Memphis, Ta-Tenen is considered to be the deified embodiment of the 'first land'. As a creator, Ta-Tenen is considered to be a bisexual Neter. Both the father and the mother of the other Neteru. In a papyrus located within the Berlin Museum, Ta-Tenen is written to be the 'father and mother who gave birth to the Neteru'.

In the Underworld, Ta-Tenen plays a protective role. He would protect the 'royal dead' on their journey through the Underworld.
http://www.per-heh.org/topics/neter/article/t/tatenen.php

As you can clearly see, Ta-Tenen is both male and female also which relates well with Atlantos (male) and Atlantis (female).

The word Atlas as you suggest not only does it mean to endure, but also can mean as one who cannot endure.

Atlantis is not a land that was enduring, it was a the "Risen Land" that contributed to civilizations and creation myths such as we see the Egyptians referring to TA=Tenen.

It is more than coincidence that we should also find the word Atlantis hidden in one of many Greek translations for "Rise" or Risen in the word epanateilantos.

As you suggest that there are too many suppositions to change into the word Atlantis, I don't really agree with you on that statement.

For one, Solon was a Poet also, and as such he may have found the beautiful name Atlantis hidden in that word epanateilantos as well.

There is a span of 240 years upto the time when Plato wrote the story in 360bC, which as we know throught the Grapevine how words can change also.

Think Deeply. Someone says to you epanateilantos, you say to someone,panateilantos, that someone says to another anateilantos, the next person translates that to someone else as ateilantos then finally, atlantos or atlantis.

A lot of the reason for the changes in words also is the human nature to be simple and sometimes just plain lazy and also how exactly it was that they heard the word prounounced where we can also attribute changes in words from hearing defects as well.

You can clearly see this, and the more you actually look into the true meaning of TA=Tenen, the more sense it will make to you that the Egyptians were talking about the "first land" to arise from NUN=Ocean.

Not only were these primordial birth hills attributed to Egypt but also to many cultures around the world, such as the Acropolis in Greece or the many mounds on the globe. Pyramids are as such a hidden meaning of the primordial mound of birth as we also see in the Mayans,Canaries,Greece,Egypt, Babylon,China, Indonesia, etc.

Therefore in reality my dear friends, it is in fact the "birth of a nation" that we are looking for and not that it can "endure".

If you look at the Alluvial Atlantis map that I have created in the other thread, you will have a much better idea as to where Atlantis could really be located and how it disappeared.

In close, time will tell as we shall see.

[This message has been edited by Riven (edited 02-18-2005).]

The speed of the land-rise was very quick too, - as it transcended the simultanious and sudden rise of the ocean-level, some 120 metres.

As the ice slided off, some 10.300 BP ago, the rise was immediate and remarkably faster than presumed, since the land-rise was faster than the rising level of the ocean, - which is measured to have stabilized at the present level some 8.700 BP. This means that the land was rising at the momentum of metres pr. year.

By 7.500 BP the rise of the western part of the Fenno-Scandic shield had slowed remarkably down, - but the alignment of the crust have still been going on, by another 40 metres, over the last 7.500 years. Over the past 50 years we have witnessed a slow-down of the rise, - from 0,9 cm to 0,3 cm a year. Though, - during this period we have had a small rise in the ocean-level too, - and even this last dynamic relation is a bit hard to catch in exact statistics.

Today we know that the inner Scandinavia have risen with some 220 metres, - while the coastal areas have risen only 30 metres, some places even less. Simultanoisly we know that the water-level have risen by 120-160 metres.

There is no doubt about the sharp rise of Scandinavia immediatly after ice-age. All the specialists agree to the basic curve, showing that 80 % of the land-rise (180+120 metres) happened between 10.000 and 8.000 years ago. The last 7.500 years this rise have slowd gradually down - flatening out gradually. But it is not before OUR DAYS - that we have been able to measure this historic events - as the dramatic rise of Scandinavia - out of the white-blue, are easening out. Today we are as good as back to the old equilibrum of the Fenno-Scandic part of the Earths crust, as it was before ice-age.

It is significant to mention that Nes-os still is an ancient Scandinavian word for "penn-insula". Another matter is that the entire subcontinent of Fenno-Scandia used to a complete island, - as the Baltic Ocean and the White Sea was connected. At that time it was covered with ice - except from the island of Gotland and the coastal areas of Western Baltics and Southern Finland.

I do know that the proves of this is very fresh, - and unknown to most people looking for answers to the Greek and Egyptian myths of Atlantis.

But the discoveries outlined is very clear and definite - in scientific terms. So also with the existence of modern man inside the White Sea and the Baltics already 40.000 years ago.

Since this people obviously was artic, - we have a logic explanation to ALL of the myths explaining the myths of Aztlan/Atlan/Atland/Atlantis. And whats worse - just before this scientific discoveries were done there appeared another Nordic Saga, - hereto unknown - explaining it all. Already in 1984-87, PRIOR to the most astonishing discoveries made in North-European archaeology, as of 1993-1998, - that actually verified the incredible history of the artic populations.

The only thing left to undertand is why this saga, containing both mythology as a chronlogical history over the last 10.000 years - had to live "under cover" ever since the midle-ages, because of its "headon" content. Thanks to the saga we can review this "headon" time more close. One of the thing you may discover is that the old "pagans" actually represented the old, world-wide culture that spread - via the arctic areas - to all corners of the world. By travel, trade and inter-change - giving cultures on different continents similar standards, expressions and world-views. Thus the old Nordic tongue must have had a key-function in this inter-continental interchange.

Thus we find basic elements of Norse origin in the Aztec and Maya Indians, although the connection is even closer to Sanskrit and Old Persian, wheras old Egyptian is incredibly close the old Finnish.

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Quote:

"Solon translated this ace epanateilantos > anateilantos > ateilantos > atilantos > atlantos > atlantis.

"ace e-pan-atei-lantos" reminds of both "Ase" as well as "Pan", "a-tei" ("sacred a") and "lantos" ("land").
Today we find Pan-ate-naikos all over Greece. If we rationalize backwards we may see the immediate connection to names like Atlan, Astland, Atland or Altland...

The Spanish people put that ace in front of epanateilantos. I think they mean as like in such as/ace.

On either side of the Horseshoe Abyssal Canal location, you can see how the 2 Harbours would fit in.

The next (top of picture NE)circular land North of the Gettysburg Seamount (larger area,hill) is the Tore seamount where a meteorite crashed according to geological surveys of the Atol.

The fascinating thing is that around 10,000 bC this land would have been above water where a mean depth on average of 200m could be related to that land now below water.

The Celtic Shelf varies from 100-400m below sea level with mean depths upto 1500m in other abyssal plain locations.
At the bottom right of this next map we also see the Seat of Saturn off the NWestern coast of Portugal.(light green/brown)
http://topex.ucsd.edu/srtm30_plus/images/w020n90.Bathmetry.srtm.tiff.jpg

At the top right corner of this map above Iceland and on the Shores of Greenland you can make out definite circle.
Either an extinct Volcano, which we can see long lava trails or a meteorite impact.
http://topex.ucsd.edu/srtm30_plus/images/w060n90.Bathmetry.srtm.tiff.jpg

http://topex.ucsd.edu/WWW_html/mar_topo.html

I'll try to find it.