quote:

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Or it could simply mean that Plato filled in details of the account with technology he was familiar with (chariots, triremes).

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Very astute observation, Tristan. Indeed, although the earliest spoke-wheeled chariots came into existence as far back as 2300 BC (and solid(-wheeled), four-wheeled chariots possibly earlier than that), triremes did not come into existence until about 650 BC and they were not effectively used in naval warfare until around 525 BC. The ships widely in use from 800 BC to 700 BC were the penteconter - meaning "50-oared" and the triaconter - meaning "30-oared". Around 700 BC the Bireme - meaning "double-rowed", was invented. This was basically a penteconter with an additional row of 25 oars per side fitted to the outriggers. In other words, it had two staggered rows of 25 oars on each side, for a total of 100 oarsmen.

The trireme - meaning "triple-rowed", carried three rows of 28 oarsmen on each side (168 oarsmen), two officers, 20 additional crewmen, and 14 soldiers, for a grand total of 204 individuals.

The beam (width) of the penteconter was 4 meters, the beam of the bireme was 3 meters, and the beam of the trireme was 3.5 meters. All three ships ranged in length between 35-38 meters, but the trireme was the fastest and most maneuverable of the three.

Much of what we think we know about ancient civilizations is purely speculation. Point being, technology involved in creating either the chariots or the trireme is not so incredible that it couldn't have been invented by an earlier civilization, forgotten, then invented in similar fashion later. As I said, we aren't talking cars here or nuclear bombs here (at least I'm not).

But that isn't the main point I'm trying to make here.

for the investors, contributors and supporters, the $$$$$$ are beginning to roll in. Brilliant strategy by Sarmast. Thanks bob.

Robert Sarmast 2/16/05

"The images are trulyÊstartling and have caused us to pull back as a team and consider how to best proceed.Ê"........

"we have decided to keep the majority of the images confidential until the right time.Ê However, the global thirst for the results of the expedition has also compelled us to share at least a snapshot of why we are all so excited.Ê In the next few weeks a press release will be sent out with one image, revealing clear markings of manmade objects on the seafloor, a mile below.Ê "..........

" Plato is about to be vindicated,".....

.

"for the investors, contributors and supporters, the $$$$$$ are beginning to roll in. Brilliant strategy by Sarmast. Thanks bob."

I said it.

The world will soon be stunned and paralyzed with shock and disbelief when they see the images of Atlantis one mile under water.

Well, at least one image for now.

Robert's discovery of Atlantis/Eden has changed the face of the moribund underwater exploration phase around the Mediterranean and everywhere else with his new hi-tech images and the latest in underwater discovery techniques.

His expedition will prove to be the catalyst for further searches for underwater remains all over the Mediterranean as well as coastal sunken cities the world over.

Archaeologists will be amazed at the discovery a mile underwater and will have to rethink all the models of the geographical history of the area.

The search for more drowned civilizations will take on new life and be one of the more spectacular events over the next 50 years.

What $$$ ? From were? What is your source or do you mean this as speculation?

why is the $$$$$$ of such a concern?

The expedition was done for the sake of discovery, nothing more. Anything else is gravy and I agree with the rest of your assessment. I simply didn't mention the obvious.

gilgamesh's only concern it with the tree of life

I've just emailed Robert Sarmast & Company and asked them if they could be more specific about the image they intend to release. I also asked them if they could let us know what date we can expect the image to be released. Don't know if I'll get a reply, though, they still haven't responded to my last message. I'll let everyone know if I hear from them.

Catastrophe,

Erick Wright 1/14/05

"I'm not sure what disturbs me more...the fact that Robert Sarmast is looking for Atlantis on the floor of the Mediterranean Sea, or that his theory has actually received consideration. After all, he is looking for Atlantis at a depth of 1,600 meters! That's 4,800 feet below the current sea level! Give me a break! Its an insult to the world's collective intelligence."

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besides, i thought it was an insult to the collective intelligences of the world.

http://www.venosa.com/

.

Visionary? Not sure... but I certainly am an atlantisaddict.(I only partake of the cyprus variety)

"(even taking into consideration the Gibralter dam breech) finding remains of a city where he is looking would push the date of the first city builders back further than anything anyone would have dared to imagine."

Yes. About 5.5 million years.

Cat, you are wrong about so many things that it is hard to keep track. So, he found the city and it is not 5 million years old. Obviously you have your dates wrong. Gibralter broke 34,000 years ago.
Not too bad Cat, only about 5 million years off. It would be nice if you were the world expert on at least something don't you think. How about trying to just learn how to spell religion to start off with.

Maybe you can "buy" your credibility back.

Tell you what Mr. affectatious moneybagsbraggart, I'll bet you 50,000 Euro's right now that Sarmast's wall is man-made at the depth & date specified.

.

.

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Robert Sarmast 2/16/05

"The images are trulyÊstartling and have caused us to pull back as a team and consider how to best proceed.Ê"........

"we have decided to keep the majority of the images confidential until the right time. However, the global thirst for the results of the expedition has also compelled us to share at least a snapshot of why we are all so excited. In the next few weeks a press release will be sent out with one image, revealing clear markings of manmade objects on the seafloor, a mile below."..........

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"In the next few weeks..." Let's see, that was February 16th, and its now March 29th, so that was what...about six weeks ago(give or take a day or two)? Just exactly how many weeks does Sarmast consider to be a few, Abs?

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Erick Wright 1/14/05

"I'm not sure what disturbs me more...the fact that Robert Sarmast is looking for Atlantis on the floor of the Mediterranean Sea, or that his theory has actually received consideration. After all, he is looking for Atlantis at a depth of 1,600 meters! That's 4,800 feet below the current sea level! Give me a break! Its an insult to the world's collective intelligence."

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Yep, I said it and I meant it. I stand behind this statement 100%.

quote:

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besides, i thought it was an insult to the collective intelligences of the world.

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It is.

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Tell you what Mr. affectatious moneybagsbraggart, I'll bet you 50,000 Euro's right now that Sarmast's wall is man-made at the depth & date specified.

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Although this wasn't directed at me, and although I am by no means a "moneybagsbraggart", I will gladly - and without hesitation - bet you $500 American dollars that Sarmast's supposed "wall" is not man-made. If you choose to accept the wager, it will have to be under the following terms:

1. Sarmast will have to provide the world with irrefutable evidence that the supposed "wall" is actually man-made. "Irrefutable evidence" would have to be evidence that is testable and verifiable, and so clearly man-made that no person in their right mind could ever argue otherwise.

2. Sarmast would have to provide access to the site to other, non-affiliated scientists so that independent confirmation could be achieved.

If independent confirmation is received, by scientists not affiliated with Sarmast, his company, but most especially the Urantia Organization, and that evidence is, indeed, irrefutable, then I will pay you $500 and write a public acknowledgement of my defeat.

The only thing left to do would be to set a realistic time frame for the evidence to surface and be verified. I think that a year should certainly suffice, if Sarmast's evidence is as "mind-blowing" as he purports it to be.

I'm ready Erick and I'll take that "gentleman's" wager with a bit of variation on the terms. I really wanted the braggarts 50k though, but this is good for a start. Amazing how things evolve huh?

I think all the terms are ok except the 1 year thing. I don't know how these mile underwater expeditions work that well, so let's give it 2 years and I'll bump it up to a thousand. Also I don't know anything about territorial rights in the international community regarding such matters so I really can't say that he can or will give the access you speak of. You will have to drop that condition but I think the find will be independently verifies beyond a reasonable doubt.
So, if the above is ok and we give it 2 years and a couple of daze, so that it expires on midnight April Fools day 2007 or 4/1/07 then the wager is on. Please confirm.

Now getting back to the rest of the post,

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"In the next few weeks..." Let's see, that was February 16th, and its now March 29th, so that was what...about six weeks ago(give or take a day or two)? Just exactly how many weeks does Sarmast consider to be a few, Abs?

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That's probably like the Clinton thing when he said it all depends what the meaning of "IS",.... Is.
see, that's exactly why we can't set the limit at 1 year. He can't even meet the "few" weeks deadline.

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besides, i thought it was an insult to the collective intelligences of the world.
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It is.

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Well, Erick, after 4/1/07 and your public admission of defeat and the payment of your lost wager, you will be able to fit all those "collective intelligences of the world" into a thimble. Not that you couldn't right now, just that you don't believe it yet.

But, I have one condition, you have to donate the thousand (if you lose) to the Urantia Fellowship. Now, that will really be the icing on the cake, won't it? You also have to promise to not get too crazy with the irrefutable stuff, just normal irrefutable mentality, not stubbornly deranged.

Eric: Sarmast does change his mind/plans a bit. I just chock this up to unchartered territory. Not too often one finds Atlantis, or the first Garden( Abs). So, I imagine he is taking it step by step, feeling his way. When you take one step at a time, it is hard to forsee future steps-and I imagine there is significant pressure on him to disclose future steps.

urantia "organization" (if you can use that term) not behind this as far as I know...many individuals who read this book have helped out though.

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Erick Wright 1/14/05
"I'm not sure what disturbs me more...the fact that Robert Sarmast is looking for Atlantis on the floor of the Mediterranean Sea, or that his theory has actually received consideration. After all, he is looking for Atlantis at a depth of 1,600 meters! That's 4,800 feet below the current sea level! Give me a break! Its an insult to the world's collective intelligence."

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i readed that the possible "Temples" studied in the Mexico's Gulf between Cuba and Yucatan are 700 metres circa undersea level.

we may think that it's 700 meters, but we may think also this:

what if that(these) ruins were inside a Valley/depression, and behind it Water was at an higher level ?

let's imagine the period where
the sea was lower, and some places in the mediterraneum was "closed", water raises up, and goes fulfilling the lower areas.
( that in other open parts of the world are already full of water )

so maybe at that age everything at these level had water, a part some exceptions, and since there wasnt water, and looked like a special place, humans built a temple or whatever

(for example the Gibriltar Pillars close, would allow people inside to build stuff at a lower level than any other places in the oceans, a part Gulf of MExico, and some other places.)

so maybe at 1600 meters nobody lived in many places at the age, but 700 yes, and at 1600 in that place too.

See the Map: (Mexico+Mediterraneum vs Atlantic Ocean) http://www.devilsmania.com/atlantis/sea.jpg

and the Australian Marine Science Institute Discovery http://www.aims.gov.au/news/pages/media-release-20050217.html

...
and if Ice in north melts
water wont fly over the Alps...
but will come thru the biggest and all connected seas (World Oceans) reaching all the Gulfs
...

Just to clarify, at this time I have no other information about the Sarmast images than you do or what is on his website. I am totally going with the same Urantia information that you have been exposed to.

Erick Wright 1/14/05
"I'm not sure what disturbs me more...the fact that Robert Sarmast is looking for Atlantis on the floor of the Mediterranean Sea, or that his theory has actually received consideration. After all, he is looking for Atlantis at a depth of 1,600 meters! That's 4,800 feet below the current sea level! Give me a break! Its an insult to the world's collective intelligence."

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"and if Ice in north melts
water wont fly over the Alps...
but will come thru the biggest and all connected seas (World Oceans) reaching all the Gulfs..."

How many more times do we have to point out that when ice over sea melts there is NO increase in sea level. Archimedes Principle. The ice has already displaced its own weight of water.

If you don't understand this fill a glass 2/3 full with water. Add an ice cube. Mark the level on the glass. As the ice melts the level does not change.

well saying ice melting we may also cosider the huge ice over the lands up there, melting, going in rivers reaching seas

that over land ice ( a lot ) shouldnt be any weight over the sea(icebergs floating yes) but still allow levels to grow up.

you said a true thing, but you didnt see all the situations

- big icebergs are a "weight" over water
- big ice and snow over lands, are "0" weight over water ( before to melt )

first one melting, ends equal
second one melting it's extra weight came from land.

I have always made it clear that ice over land melting causes an increase in sea level.

Ice over water has already displaced its own weight of water (Archimedes Principle). Try the ice cube experiment.

come on what are you doing, I have this fish hooked already and you're shaking my line.

It's not a fair bet if we wait until the images are released. The bet is already agreed to and made and we are simply working out the fine details of time and irrefutability.

I didn't even need the so-called images. I knew it would be there when I read the material 30 years ago. Isn't it funny that Sarmast on his first dive went right to the exact place and found the evidence he also knew would be there.

Besides haven't all the top experts in the field already come out and said he is full of b.s. and he found a volcano and land slide? And all the collective intelligences of the world already know that Urantia is a bunch of sci-fi b.s.