Support Atlantis Rising Online by Supporting our Sponsors

Home | Store | Online Archives | PDF's | News

  Atlantis Rising
  Atlantis
  Tribes of Atlantis (Page 25)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 25 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Tribes of Atlantis
rajesh
Member

Posts: 703
From:
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 03-03-2004 18:23     Click Here to See the Profile for rajesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gentlemen:

Why the next page (25th) is not opening? Let me give a trial message on this interesting topic.

With Regards...

IP: 210.214.154.80

Murky
New Member

Posts: 1
From:
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 03-08-2004 17:22     Click Here to See the Profile for Murky     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Doreal thing is not a hoax. He visited
me after his death ( spoke with him 1998)
, and gave me some spiritual teachings. He is just as supernormal as he claimed to be, I know that factually.

IP: 38.112.161.130

atalante
Member

Posts: 1301
From: Tucson AZ USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 03-09-2004 08:37     Click Here to See the Profile for atalante     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Perseus,
Here is a nice article about the Earliest Farmers in Europe. It demonstrates what the proto-Greeks were doing during roughly 7000-5500 BC, and also demonstrates that southern Turkey was the ONLY OTHER place in Europe which was involved in farming at such an early date. (i.e. no Indo-European influences).

This article traces the expansion of people through Greece from south and moving in a northward direction as far as Macedonia and Bulgaria.

Figure 1 in the following link is a map which makes the discussion easy to follow. I suggest that you review figure 1 in the link. (The map did not "cut and paste" in my summary below.)

quote from: http://www.unige.ch/lettres/archeo/introduction_seminaire/neolithique/runnels.html
Not a great deal is known about settlement patterns and land preferences of the Anatolian Neolithic. In the west and north many medium-sized rivers have floodplains, but while future exploration may turn up Neolithic settlements there, so far they have not be seen. The only area known to be well populated in the early Neolithic are the Beysehir-Sugla and Konya basins in the south-central part of the country. At least 9500 years ago, the fine-grained alluvium of fan deltas and the margins of seasonal lakes in those basins provided a reliable harvest for a sizeable population, and a network of villages such as Can Hasan, Süberde and Çatal Hüyük spread across them.
The similarity of this setting to the lands preferred by immigrants into Greece and elsewhere in southeastern Europe is obvious and for the next step in our argument we take south-central Anatolia as our starting point. We shall compare the pattern of the earliest settlements (Figure 1) with the wave-of-advance model developped by Ammerman & Cavalli-Sforza.
In its simplest form this model (Figure 2A) rests on two assumptions:
1 an initially logistic population growth curve which yields a continuous advance across a broad front, and
2 a local migratory activity that is, to a first approximation, continuous and random in direction.
Population increase and migratory activity occur only at the wave front and the rate of advance is roughly constant. Well behind the wave front the population growth slows due to lack of room for expansion. Ammerman & Cavalli-Sforza, while recognizing several variants on this theme, regarded its basic form as adequate for a series of tests based on genetics and chronology. Those tests did not conflict with th model.
To increase the realism of the model other factors must be taken into account besides demography (Figure 2B). More complex models were indeed analysed by Ammerman & Cavalli-Sforza which included discontinuities in space and time as well as barriers and areas unsuited for exploitation. Those models are our point of departure here.
The Aegean Sea might be regarded as a barrier (as are mountains and deserts), but travel by sea was apparently not by itself a problem. It is swift and accelerates migration and shapes the wave front, but it is also a bottleneck that limits the number of migrants. Colonists arrived early and almost simultaneously on Crete, at Franchthi and in Thessaly (Figure 1), but probably only in small numbers.
More critical was the preference of the migrants for environments that were far from ubiquitous. In a landscape where only scattered and usually small patches were inviting, the wave filled up only the desirable areas, then leapt to the next ones. This converted the wave front from a smooth bulge into the tongues of the incoming tide as it first advances across the sand. In terms of overall advance the basic model is a useful approximation, but the dynamic of the modified version is different.
The original model implied a continuous movement driven by steady population growth immediately behind the front. In its modified form (Figure 2B), the small number of shipborne arrivals at large suitable sites such as the Larisa basin had much time before another move became necessary or even possible and so migration occurred discrete steps. The lengths of each step and the intervals between them were dictated by geography and by the population growth in each of a lowly rising number of parent areas.
Of course, in Greece other environments that floodplains permitted settlement and survival in many but widely separte places. It is our contention, however, that only the few large, fertile floodplains, such as the Larisa basin, supported populations ultimately large enough to start the next migratory move. In later stages of the migration the Morava-Vardar area in the Balkans and the tavoliere in east-central Italy may have been similar growth and jumping-off points (Figure 1).
Table 1 provides some insight here. During the 1000-year span of the Early Neolithic just over a hundred sites were established in the Larisa basin, probably gradually. Of those one-third did not survive into the Middle Neolithic, but as many new ones were founded before the end of this phase. The Early and Middle Neolithic intervals, ending about 7500 BP, thus seem to have been a time of steady but not very rapid growth, in accord with a mere 25% increase of the average site area.
This changed drastically during the Late Neolithic (7500-6500 BP). The 30 sites that failed to survive the Middle Neolithic were replaced by many more new ones, and the total in the Larisa basin rose by half to 150 before the Bronze Age brought a reduction. There was also a modest but real increase in the number of large sites. Many new sites were established outside the floodplain on fans and on the flanks of the Ravenia ridge between the Trikala and Larisa basins. Perhaps we may see here the impact of new crops and technology better adapted to dry-land farming.
The still unsatisfactory state of the Neolithic chronology in Greece frustrates a quantitative analysis of the growth of the initial settlement, but even the Larisa basin, region of major growth, required some 1500 years, from about 9000 to 7500 BP, to reach saturation. It may be no coincidence that the first settlements in Yugoslavian Macedonia and southern Bulgaria date to c. 7800 BP (Figure 1), implying that a new spill-over had begun. This time the origin was Thessaly and a little later, for Bulgarian sites, the Morava/Valdar area.
Local population increase has often been regarded as the main force that drove the Neolithic migration, an assumption explicit in the wave-of-advance model. Figure 1 shows that only six centuries after they settled south-central Anatolia the first farmers arrived in Greece, almost a thousand kilometres across the sea. The rapidity of this new phase of movement cannot be comfortably attributed to population growth, even if we accept a high rate of growth at the front of the wave of advance. There is, moreover, no evidence for a dense population in Anatolia 9000 years ago and many less distant areas were open to settlement to relieve any population pressure. Neither does the settlement pattern of the migration into southeastern Europe (Figure 1) suggest the crowding that would force another step.
Our modified model partly resolves this paradox, because the limited availability of preferred lands at a considerable distance from each other does not imply a large population at the point of origin. It so explains the lack of evidence for a wide-spread dense population exhausting available resources, but it raises new questions. Was it an overwhelming preference for specific environments that motivated people to go far across the seas into the unknown rather than to adjust to lands that were not yet scarce at home? How did these migrants locate the thessalian plains which high mountains shield from view by land and sea? Or were those lands perhaps not so unknown, because earlier wandering seafarers had already found them as Broodbank & Strasser have suggested and as the use by Neolithic farmers of Melian obsidian known since the Mesolithic implies?
These questions suggest that, as we move beyond the basic, heuristically fertile wave-of-advance model, understanding the dynamic of the introduction of farming into Europe will require a firm chronology of the Neolithic and the identification of detailed patterns of Neolithic settlement and its environments. Such information will permit the quantitative estimates of population growth and resource exploitation that are essential to explain fully the spread of agriculture across Europe.


Table 1

Temporal variation of Neolithic settlements density in eastern Thessaly.

Phase
Early Neolithic
Middle Neolithic
Late Neolithic
Bronze Age

number of sites

Total in phase
106
104
74
139

Founded
106
28
80
24

Survived into
-
76
74
106

Re-occupied in
-
-
20
9

Abandoned in
30
30
68
?


Figure 1
Locations and approximate ages of some main early Neolithic settlement areas (stippled) in the Near east and Southeastern Europe.



1. Jericho; 2. Çayönü; 3. Asikli Hüyük; 4. South-central Anatolia (Hacilar, Can Hasan, Çatal Hüyük); 5. Cyprus (Kalavasos Tenta, Khirokitia); 6. Knossos; 7. Franchthi Cave; 8. Nea Nikomedia; 9. Larissa Basin; 10. Sidari; 11. South Bulgaria; 12. Macedonia; 13. Morava valley; 14. Sava valley and Vojvodina; 15. Dalmatia; 16. Tavoliere da Puglia.
Arrows show possible migration paths. Small numbers are calibrated dates of settlement.

IP: 198.81.26.9

atalante
Member

Posts: 1301
From: Tucson AZ USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 08-07-2004 07:29     Click Here to See the Profile for atalante     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do the old topics get deleted (by Atlantis Rising) if the topic remains inactive for a specific number of days?

IP: 64.12.116.14

rockessence
Member

Posts: 1000
From: WA USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 08-07-2004 19:48     Click Here to See the Profile for rockessence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Atalante,

RE; your post of 2/13 on this thread: "The next two Olympian gods to apppear (i.e. the 7th and 8th gods) were Artemis and Apollo, who were born on the Cyclades island of Delos. These two deities seem to represent the Pelasgians of Arcadia, who appear in Peloponesian Greek mythology."

I thought I would offer this from www.bocksaga.de

IP: 67.250.184.47

rockessence
Member

Posts: 1000
From: WA USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 08-07-2004 19:55     Click Here to See the Profile for rockessence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Atalante,

In regards to your earlier post about Artimis and Apollo on Delos, I offer this from www.bocksaga.de

"HYPERBOREAN VIRGINS
AND THE MESSAGE


A strange thing is to be seen, even today, in the holy island of Delos, which is in the middle of Cyclades and of greek archipelago, in the Aegean Sea.

There are two graves of hyperborean virgins in that island.

Even their names are known, Opis and Arge, in one grave.
Two others are Laodice and Hyperokhe, in another grave.
And their’s are the only graves left in that island, after it was purified by removing all other bodies out of by 400 BZ.

But let’s begin anew.
According to Herodotus, two virgins were sent from Hyperborea to bring gifts to the goddess and protector of childbirth, Eileithyia.
Their names were Laodice and Hyperokhe.
Five men, called ”perferies”, were sent with them as guardians for a long and arduous trip.
They came via the land of Scyths, which was northwest of Black Sea, where Ukraine is today.
From there to the head of Adriatic sea and thence to the mainland of Greece, through the island of Euboia and finally to Delos.
Those four hyperborean maidens remained in Delos the rest of their lives, as priestesses, in the temple of Artemis, and there they also died.
They were highly respected for many centuries.
When delian youngsters got married, both girls and boys cut a lock of hair and placed it on the grave of Laodice and Hyperokhe.
To ask for easy deliveries and healthy babies.
An olive tree grew on the grave when Herodotus saw it, at 450 BZ.

But delians told him that two maidens, named Arge and Opis, had come there first, from Hyperborea, at the same time with the two gods, Artemis and Apollo.
Arge and Opis had come to help and assist Leto with the delivery of the two gods.
They were respected by a choir that sung a song a Lycian man, named Olen, also said to be hyperborean, had composed for them, during the festivals that were held every fourth or later every fifth year.
Their names were repeatedly mentioned in that song.
When an animal was sacrificed, it was eaten mostly but the hind leg was burnt on the altar and the ashes were spread to the grave of Arge and Opis.

But this is important, Arge and Opis brought with them a message, bronze plates in which were written the joys and grievings of Paradise and Hades.
This story is to be found in the writings of Plato.
In his book number seven, he writes what Sokrates had told to his friend Aksiokhos.
Sokrates mentions the story he had heard from a man named Gobryes.
The grandfather of this Gobryes had been sent to the island of Delos to save the valuables from the marauding persians, in the year when they were invading Greece, 480 BZ.
This here is the text of the bronze plates;
”Soul goes to the land of shady light after parting from the body, deep underground, where Pluto rules as a King, areas which are as large as the halls of Zeus.
When the Earth is in the center of universe, and universe is like a ball, gods of the Sky rule one half and the gods of Hades rule the other half.
Other gods are brothers, and others are the children of brothers.
On the road to the outer court of Pluto there are iron gates which are closed with iron keys.
When gates are opened, first Acheron and then Cocytos rivers must be crossed to get to the fields of truth where Rhadamanthys and Minos wait for you.
There the judges ask what kind of life you have lived when the soul was still within you.
(Rhadamanthys judged the asian people, Minos the european.)
There you cannot lie.
Those who have obeyed the voice of good consience, go to the fields of blessed.
There fruits grow in a mild climate, clean rivers flow and fields are full of springtime flowers.
Philsophers talk, plays are being acted, choirs dance and music is being played.
There are no pains, life is full of enjoyments, the weather being not too cold, nor extreme hot, but the sunshine warms pleasantly.
Festivals are being held any time, no reason is needed for them.
Front seats are reserved for those who are engaged to the Mysteries, there they perform the holy rites.
The story tells that right here Herakles and Dionysos were initiated in to the holy Mysteries before they stepped down to the land of Hades, and that it was the Queen of the Eleusian Fields who encouraged them to do so.

But those who have led a criminal life go to the dark caves of Tartaros where the spirits of revenge take hold of them.
There the daughters of Danae endlessly scoop water and Tantalos suffers from unending thirst, Tityos, who’s mutilated organs just keep growing forever and Sisyfos, who pushes big boulder uphill to start it anew time after time.
There the tongues of beasts lick them and the flames of the torches burn them.

Just figure it yourself, Aksiokhos, what Gobryes told me.
My own thinking is in doubt, but I do know that when souls part from us they are out of reach of pains.”

This is the text of the bronzeplates that Arge and Opis had brought with them from the land of Hyperborea, as told to Sokrates by Gobryes.
These plates are no more to be seen because barbarians stole all metals later on, but we are lucky to see the texts from the writings of Plato.

Were these maidens, Arge, Opis, Laodice and Hyperokhe finns or the descendants of the hyllean people who had emigrated from the island of Corfu to the Cronian Sea, we will never get to know, perhaps.
But the writing of those bronze-plates describing the conditions of Paradise and Hades were most probably from Hel.
Herodotus wonders that even in his time, 450 BZ, those graves were to be seen in Delos.
But they are still there today, well kept and marked, in the maps too.

But when were those virgins buried there?
Three vases have been found in their graves beside the bones during the excavations.
They have been dated to be made at the Mycenaean time, 1600–1200 BZ.
Herodotus says that Herakles lived 900 years before him.
That would be about 1350 BZ.
It could be assumed that hyllean people emigrated to the Cronian Sea at about 13th century BZ, or earlier, and that hyperboreans sent those virgins to Delos soon after.

The question is; how did they know anything at all about Delos?
They must have known the importance of that island and the way to get there much before.
Messengers had been sent from Hel to Hellas by the meridian, which is the direct route, in time immemorial, as is told in the Bock Saga.
Herodotus tells also that a hyperborean man named Abaris had traveled widely without eating anything at all carrying an arrow with him??
What story is hidden here, we don’t know, and Herodotus is too shy to tell.
But here we can use the ”Rot” language, trying to find out.
A-BAR would mean a naked, under his tunic, Aser man, (IS probably added later) carrying the arrow, which would mean that he was the ”breeder”.
But when hyperboreans realised that the virgins they sent never came back they ceased sending any people to bring offerings, instead they gave the gifts to a neighbouring nation which sent them to a next one until they reached Delos at the end.
The gifts were always wrapped in wheat straws.
Herodotos tell’s that still in his time women from neighbouring islands brought gifts that were wrapped in wheat straws, to the temple of Artemis.
Hyperborea is by Greek mythology an area north of northwind, where there is eternal springtime and constant sunshine, that is; the land of Uden, in Finland.

Another question is, why Delos?
Was it because Knossos in Crete and the Minoan culture had been devastated by the huge tsunami or wave at about 1500 BZ which was caused perhaps by the explosion of the volcano at Santorini, or Thera?
This seems possible."

IP: 67.250.184.47

Ariel
New Member

Posts: 4
From: Barbate, Spain
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 08-10-2004 04:05     Click Here to See the Profile for Ariel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, :-)

------------------
Greetings,
Ariel

IP: 80.103.245.220

Absonite
Member

Posts: 982
From: Florida
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 08-10-2004 08:35     Click Here to See the Profile for Absonite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What's going on with this thread and page 25?

IP: 172.130.107.92

Riven
Member

Posts: 1655
From: Canada
Registered: May 2003

posted 08-14-2004 01:48     Click Here to See the Profile for Riven     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

IP: 206.45.165.53

Riven
Member

Posts: 1655
From: Canada
Registered: May 2003

posted 12-24-2004 02:01     Click Here to See the Profile for Riven     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
22

IP: 207.161.57.73


This topic is 25 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25 

All times are MT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Atlantis Rising Online


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47e

These forums are maintained by Atlantis Rising as a public service. The intent is to give everyone the freedom to express independent points of view without censure or undue restriction. However, we ask that you act responsibly in the exercise of your freedoms. Please keep all comments in good taste and free from insult or the disparagement of any individual or group (religious, political, racial, ethnic, sexual preference, etc.).

For the record, the management of Atlantis Rising wishes to make clear that any and all statements presented on this forum represent the views of that particular writer ONLY and should NOT be construed to represent in any way the views, opinions or policies of Atlantis Rising Magazine or AtlantisRising.com.