Atlas (high mountain)
Nw Africa (Morocco,Berbers,Meshwesh,Pharusii).

Gadeirus (country plain) (Greek=Eumeleus=rich in sheep)
Iberia,Spain,Portugal.

Ampheres (to rest)
Italy,Sicily,Sardinia.

Evaemon (fortunate woman)
Algeria,Tunisia,Libya (Atalantes,Garamantes,Ammonium,Capsian)

Mneseus (from a Trojan)
Crete (Minos,Amnisus)

Autochthon (earthborn)
Peloponnesia,Attica,Cyclades.

Elassipus (horse riding)
Turkey (Phrygia,Ionia,Caria,Ephaesus)

Mestor (NNE middle)
Phoenicia,Syria (Byblos,Tyre)

Azaes (Heat)
Mauretania (Azas,Azamor)

Diaprepes (relating to God,highly distinguished)
Egypt,Nubia,Ethiopia.

The Founders

Poseidon (Sea God, Land God, EarthShaker) Cleito’s lover.

Evenor (primeval firstborn) Cleito’s Father

Leucippe (mother of roman surname) Cleito’s mother

Cleito (emperor’s favorite) Acropolis hill, Atlantis Royal City.

Based on Atlantean migration 10,840 bC (estimated 1,240 years of growth)
Countries Liberated after Great Battle and Atlantis sinking (2850-9600 bC)

ATLANTES-of Libyan people
ATLANTICUS-of Mount Atlas
ATLANTIAS-female
ATLANTIADES-male

The word Atlantis;
Re: Basque Translation by Riven

"The main evergreen forest is born a joyous miracle at dawn the abundant monument increases to unite the future arrival and remain loyal to the secret of creation."

That makes good sense and relates to the proposed "mirror" image of Sais.

I was thinking more somewhere around Thebes Abydos,or Thinis where Menes came from.

Middle Egypt and Upper (Southern) Egypt were crumbling during 1069 BC to 400 BC (Dynasties 21 through 27). During that period, there was only one pharoah who ruled from Thebes; and his reign lasted only 10 years (870-860 BC). All the other Pharaoahs came from the Nile delta region, or from Libya or Persia. http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/egypt.html

That created a very long period of neglect, in the original core regions of Egypt. For example, when the Romans conquored Egypt, they reported that the Labyrinth (which was the largest building in the world) had not been renovated for 800 years. So the Romans decided to tear down the Labyrinth.

With this as a background, I think it probable that the priests of Sais regarded the magnificent, and fully renovated, building complex at Heliopolis to be the best source for ancient records.

The Persian king Cambysses thoroughly destroyed Heliopolis in 524 BC. So Herodotus and Plato lived too late to consult the offical records at Heliopolis.

But Solon visited Egypt before those records were destroyed.

The November 2003 issue of Discover magazine (page 16) contains an interesting article, about pushing BACKWARD IN TIME the origins of Indo-European languages.

University professors Peter Forster and Alfred Toth have applied the same type of analysis to word roots, which was recently used to analyze the history of DNA variations.

Their conclusion is that Indo-European languages date to roughly 8000 BC, which is 4000 years earlier than previously assumed.

I think this helps to explain the Iranian version of the Bible's Noah legends.

Iranian (Zoroastrian) myths say that the original humans were Cowherders, and thus were good people. Seven distinct "couples" were born in that era. Perhaps we could visualize that as 7 Indo-European languages.

Then the Daevas did something wrong, and destroyed the parents of humanity. Finally the "first King" of the Zoroastrian/Iranians arose, named Hoshang. He avenged his father by breaking away from the Daevas.

Hoshang found an iron-mineral and learned to separate its iron from its stone. Then Hoshang taught his people to make ploughs and other iron tools. He also taught how to use water to fertilize fields.

The son of Hoshang was named Tahmuras, and he made war against the Daevas. Afterwards the Daevas offered to teach Tahmuras how to write, if he agreed not to kill them.

According to Iranian myth, this touched off the Golden Age of civilization.

1.Tem
Tem was a form of the Sun-god, and was the great local gods of that place. His name is connected with the root tem, or temem, "to be complete," "to make an end of," and he was regarded as the form of the Sun-god which brought the day to an end, i.e., as the evening or night sun . He is always depicted in the human form. The attributes of the god have been already described in the section which treats of the forms of the god Ra.

2. Shu, or 3. Tefnut
Shu and his female counterpart Tefnut may be considered together, at all events in the texts of the later periods. The name Shu appears to be derived from the root shu, "dry, parched, withered, empty," and the like, and the name Tefnut must be connected with tef, or teftet, "to spit, be moist," and the like; thus Shu was a god who was connected with the heat and dryness of sunlight and with the dry atmosphere which exists between the earth and the sky, and Tefnut was a personification of the moisture of the sky, and made herself manifest in various forms. The oldest legend about the origin of the gods is contained in the text of Pepi I., wherein it is said {line 465} that once upon a time Tem went to the city of Annu and that he there produced from his own body by the irregular means of masturbation his two children Shu and Tefnut. In this circle form the myth is probably of Libyan origin, and it suggests that its inventors were in a semi-savage, or perhaps wholly savage, state when it was first promulgated. In later times, as we have already seen the Egyptians appear to have rejected certain of the details of the myth, or to have felt some difficulty in believing that Shu and Tefnut were begotten and conceived and brought forth by Tem, and they therefore assumed that his shadow, khaibit, acted the part of wife to him; another view was that the goddess Iusaaset was his wife.

The old ideas about the origin of the twin gods, however, maintained their position in the minds of the Egyptians, and we find them categorically expressed in some of the hymns addressed to Amen-Ra, who under the New Empire was identified with Tem, just as at an earlier period Ra was identified with the same god. In two hymns quoted by Brugsch we have the following : "O Amen-Ra, the gods have gone forth from thee became Shu, and that which was emitted by thee "became Tefnut; thou didst create the nine gods at the beginning "of all things, and thou wast." The Lion-gods are of course, Shu and Tefnut, who are mentioned in the Book of the Dead in several passages. In the second hymn to Amen-Ra it is said, "SHU AND TEFNUT, "Thou art the One god, who didst form thyself into two gods, "hou art the creator of the Egg, and thou didst produce thy Twin-gods." In connection with the production of Shu and Tefnut. Dr. Brugsch refers to the well-known origin of the gods of Taste and Feeling, Hu, and Sa, who are said to have sprung into being from the drops of blood which fell from the phallus of Ra, and to have taken up their places among the gods who were in the train of Ra, and who were with Temu everyday. {Book of the Dead, xvii 62}.

Shu is represented in the form of a man who wears upon his head one feather, or two, or four, the phonetic value of the sign is shu, and the use of it as the symbol of the god's name seems to indicate some desire on the part of the Egyptians to connect the word shu, or shau, "feather," with shu, "light, empty space, dryness," etc. As the god of the space which exists between the earth and the sky, Shu was represented under the form of a god who held up the sky with two hands, one supporting it at the place of sunrise, and the other at the place of sunset, and several porcelain figures exist in which he is seen kneeling upon one knee, in the act of lifting up with his two hands and the sky with the solar disk in it. when Shu wears no feather he bears upon his head the figure of the hind-quarter of a lion, prh; in mythological scenes we find him both seated and standing, and he usually holds in one hand the scepter, and in the other. In a picture given by Lanzone he grasps in his left hand a scorpion, a serpent, and a hawk-headed scepter. The goddess Tefnut is represented in the form of a women, who wears upon her head the solar disk encircled by a serpent, and holds in her hands the scepter, and; she, however, often appears with the head of a lioness, which is surmounted by a ureah, and she is sometimes depicted in the form of a lioness.

Shu
An examination of the texts shows that Shu was a god of light, or light personified, who made himself manifest in the beams of the sun by day, and in the light of the moon by night, and his home was the disk of the sun. Viewed in this connection it is easy to understand the scene in which the god appears rising up from behind the earth with the solar disk upon his head, and his hands supporting that upon which it rests. In text at Edfu published by Bergmann, the creator of Shu is called Tauith, and to him the king who caused the words to be inscribed is made to say, "Thou hast emmitted {asheh} Shu, and "he hath come forth from thy mouth...He hath become a "god, and he hath brought for thee every good thing; he hath toiled for thee, and and he emitted for thee in his name of Shu, "the royal double. he hath labored for thee in these things, and he beareth up heaven upon his head in his name of Shu, and Tauith giveth the strength of the body of heaven "in his name of Ptah. He beareth up for thee "heaven with the hands in his name of Shu the body of the "sky." It must be noted that the same word asheh is used to express both the idea of "pouring out" and "supporting," and it is difficult to reconcile these totally different meanings unless we remember that it is that which Tem. or Ra-Tem, has poured out which supports the heavens wherein shines the Sun-god. That which Tem, or Ra-Tem, has poured out is the light, and light was declared to be the prop of the sky.
From a number of passages examined by Dr. Brugsch we find that Shu was a personification of the rays which came forth from the eyes of Ra, and that he was the soul of the god Khenmu, the great god of Elephantine and the First Cataract; he also represented the burning, fiery heat of the sun at noon, and the sun in the height of summer.

In another aspect his abode was the region between the earth and the sky, and he was a personification of the wind of the North; Dr. Brugsch went so far as to identify him with the "spiritual Pneuma in a higher sense," and thought that he might be regarded as the vital principle of all living beings. He was certainly, like his father Tem, thought to be the cool wind of the North, and the dead were grateful to him for his breezes. Shu was, in fact, the god of the space which filled with the atmosphere, even as Ra, was the god of the heaven, and Seb the god of the earth, and Osiris the god of the Underworld. From the Book of the Dead {xvii. 16} we learn that Shu and Tefnut were supposed to possess but one soul between them, but that the two halves of it were identified with the soul of Osiris and the soul of Ra, which together formed the great double soul which dwelt in Tattu. The gate of the pillars of Shu" {xvii. 56}, and Shu and Tefnut laid the foundations of the house in which the deceased was supposed to dwell. From the xviiith Chapter of the Book of the Dead we find that the princes of Heliopolis were Tem, Shu, Tefnut, Osiris, and Thoth, and that Ra, Osiris, Shu, and Bebi were the princes of the portion of the Underworld which was known by the name of Anrut-f. We may note in passing that Bebi, or Baba, or Baba or Babai, was the first-born son of Osiris. According to Dr. Brugsch, Baba was personified in the form of some Typhonic mythological animal, and was the god who presided over the phallus; the blood which fell from his nose grew into plants which subsequently changed into cedars. Dr. Pleyte has rightly identified Bebi or Baba with the Bebwv or Bebwva of Plutarch {De Iside, 62} and with the Babus of Hellanicus. Bebon was a name of Typhon, i.e., Set, and that he was represented by an animal is proved by the hieroglyphic form of his name, which is determined by the skin of an animal, In chapter xxiii. the deceased prays that his "mouth may be unclosed by Shu with the iron knife wherein he opened the mouth of the gods." From Chapters xxxiii. and xxxv. we learn that Shu was believed to possess power over the serphants, and he it was who made the deceased to stand up by the Ladder which would take him to heaven {xcviii. 4}. That souls needed a ladder whereby to mount from earth to heaven was a very ancient belief in Egypt. The four pillars which held up the sky at the four cardinal points were called the "pillars of Shu" {cix. 5, cx. 13}, and Shu was breath of the god Ra {cxxx. 4}. The deceased was nourished with the food of Shu, i.e., he lived upon light; and in the Roman period Shu was merged in Ra, the god of light. The part played in Egyptian mythology by Tefnut is not easily defied, and but little is known about her. In the text of Unas {line 453} she is mentioned together with the two Maat goddesses, and with Shu, but curiously enough, she seems to appear as the female counterpart of a god called Tefen. The passage reads, "Tefen and Tefnet have weighed Unas, and the "Maat goddesses have hearkened, and Shu hath borne witness," etc. In the Theban Recension of the Book of the Dead she is mentioned a few times in connection with Shu {Chapters xvii., cxxx, etc.} and she is one of the group of gods who form the divine company and the "body and soul of Ra" {cxl.7}, but she performs no service for the deceased beyond providing him with breath. She was originally a goddess of gentle rain and soft wind, but at a comparatively late period of Egyptian history she was identified with Nehemauit at Hermopolis, with Menhit at Latopolis, with Sekhet in Memphis, and with Apsit in Nubia.

Unlike most of the gods of Egypt, Shu and Tefnut do not appear to have had set apart for them any special city or district, but at the same time titles were given to certain cities which presupposed some connection between them and these gods. Thus Dendera was called Hinu-en-Shunefer, and Edfu was the "Seat of Shu, and Memphis bore the name of "Palace of Shu," Similarly, one portion of Dendera was known as the "House of Tefnut," or the "Aat of Tefnut," or. Whether there were statues of Shu and Tefnut in these cities cannot be said, but it is very probable that they were worshipped in the sanctuaries under the forms of lions, and in connection it is worthy of note that Aelian records {De Nat, Animal. xii. 7 that the people of Heliopolis worshipped lions in the temple of Helios.

It has already been mentioned that Shu was the sky-bearer par excellence, and we may note in passing the interesting myth which the Egyptians possessed about him in this capacity, and the explanation which they gave of his occupying this portion. According to the text which found in the tomb of Seti I. in the Valley of the Tombs of the Kings at Thebes, in very remote times, when Ra ruled over gods and men and had his throne established in the city of Suten-henen, or Henen-su, mankind began to utter seditious words against him, and the great god determined to destroy them. He summoned Hathor, Shu, Tefnut, Seb, and Nut into his presence, and having told them what men, who had proceeded from his eye, had been saying about him, he asked them for their advice, and promised that he would that he would slay the rebels until he had heard what the first-born god" and the "ancestor gods" had to say on the matter. In answer to this the first-born god Nu, advised him to let his daughter Hathor, "the eye of Ra," go forth and slay men; Ra accepted the advice straightway, and Hathor went forth and slew all mankind, and when she returned Ra was pleased with her. Soon after this he became wearied with the earth, and the goddess Nut having been turned into the cow he mounted upon her back and remained there, but before long the cow began to shake and to tremble because she was very high above the earth, and when she complained to Ra about it he commanded Shu to be a support to her, and to hold her up in the sky. In the picture of the cow which accompanies the text we see her body resting upon the head and the two raised hands and arms of the god. When Shu had taken up his place beneath the cow and was bearing up her body, the heavens above and the earth beneath came into being, and the four cardinal points; and thus it came to pass that the god Seb and his feamle counterpart Nut began their existence.

SEB
Seb was the son of Shu and Tefnut, and was the brother and husband of Nut, and the father of Osiris and Isis, Set and Nephthys, and some say of one of the Horus gods; according to the late Dr. Brugsch his name should be read Geb or Keb, or Gebb, or Kebb, and in every early times this undoubtedly seems to have been the correct form of the god's name. He is usually represented in the form of a man who bears his head either the white crown, or the crown of the North, to which is added the Atef crown, or a goose, or the peculiar species called seb. This bird was sacred to him because he believed to have made his way through the air in its form. Seb was the god of the earth, and the earth formed his body and was called the "house of Seb," just as the air was called the "house of Shu," and the heaven the "house of Ra," and the Underworld the "house of Osiris," As the god of the surface of the earth from which spring up trees, and plants, and herbs, and grain he played a very prominent part of the earth beneath the surface of the ground he had authority over the tombs wherein the dead were laid. In hymns and other compositions he is often styled the erpat, i.e., the hereditary, tribal chief of the gods, and he plays a very important part in the Book of the Dead. Thus he is one of the company of the gods who watch the weighing of the heart of the deceased in the Judgement Hall of Osiris, and on his brow rested the secret gates which were close by the Balance of Ra, and which were guarded by the god himself {xii. 2}

The soul of Seb was called Sham-ur, {xvii. 116} The righteous who were provided with the necessary words of power were able to make their escape from the earth wherein their bodies were laid, but the wicked were held fast by Seb {xix. 14}; Seket and Anpu were great helpers of the deceased, but it was Seb whom he asked to open wide his two jaws for him, whom he begged to open his eyes, and loose his legs which were bandaged {xxvi. 1}. And of him the deceased said, "My "father is Seb, and my mother is Nut" {xxxi. 5}. Like Shu the god Seb was appealed to by the deceased for the help against serpents {xxxiii. 2}, and he was never tired of boasting that his cakes were "on the earth with the god Seb" {lii. 4}, and that the gods had declared that he was "to live upon the the bread of Seb" {lxviii. 9}. In a burst of joy, Nu, the overseer of the house of the overseer of the seal, is made to say, "The doors of heaven are opened for me, the "doors of earth are opened for me, the bars and bolts of Seb are "opened for me" {lxviii. 2}, and I exchange speech with Seb, the "lord of the earth, and the protector therein. The mine" {lxxx,11,12}

The religious texts show that there was no special city or district set apart for the god Seb, but a portion of the temple estates in Apollinopolis Magna was called the "Aat of Seb," and a name of Dendera was "the home of the children of Seb,". The chief seat of the god appears to have been at Heliopolis, where he and his female counterpart Nut produced the great Egg from which sprang the Sun-god under the from of a phoenix. Because if his connection with this Egg Seb is sometimes called the "Great Cackler," Kenken-ur,. Thus the deceased says. Hail, thou god Tem, "grant unto me the sweet breath which dwelleth in the nostrils. "I embrace that great throne which is in the city of Hermopolis, "and I keep watch over the Egg of the Great Cackler {or, "according to another reading, I am the Egg which is in the Great Cackler, and I watch and guard that mighty thing which "hath come into being wherewith the god Seb hath opened the "earth}, I germininate as it germinateth; I live as it liveth; and "{my} breath is {its} breath" {Book of the Dead, Chapters liv., "lvi., lix.}.

The name of the phoenix in Egyptian is "Bennu," and this bird played a very prominent part in mythology, but the texts do not bear out the extraordinary assertions which have been made about it by classical writers. According to the story which Herodoyus heard at Heliopolis {ii. 73}, the bird visited that place once every five hundred years, on its father's death; when it was five hundred, or fourteen hundred and sixty-one years old, it burnt itself to death. It was supposed to resemble an eagle, and to have red and gold feathers, and to come from Arabia;. Before its death it built a nest to which it gave the power of producing a new phoenix, though some thought that a worm crept out of its body before it died, and that form it the heat of the sun devloped a new phoenix. Others thought that it died after a life of seven thousand and six years, and another view was that the new phoenix rose from the burnt and decomposing remains of his old body, and that he took these to Heliopolis where he burnt them. All these fabulous stories are the result of misunderstandings of the Egyptian myth which declared that the rerewed morning sun rose in the form of a Bennu, and the belief which declared that this bird was the soul of Ra and also the lining symbol of Osiris, and that it came forth from the very heart of the god. The sanctuary of the Bennu was the sanctuary of Ra and Osiris, and that it came forth from the very heart of the god. The sanctuary of the Bennu was the sanctuary of Ra and Osiris, and was called Het Benben, i.e., the "House of the Obelisk," and remembering this is easy to understand the passages in the Book of the Dead, "I go in like the "Hawk , and I come forth like the Bennu, the Morning Star {i.e., "the planet Venus} of Ra " {xii. 2]; "I am the Bennu, which is in "Heliopolis" {Xvii.27}, and the scholion on this passage expressely informs us that the Bennu is Osiris. Elsewhere the deceased says, "I am the Bennu, the soul of Ra, and the guide of the gods "in the Tuat; {xxix.c 1}; let it be so done unto me that I may come forth like Bennu, "the Morning Star" {cxxii.} On a hypocephalus quoated by Prof. Wiedemann, the deceased to transform himself into a Bennu bird if he felt disposed to do so; in it he identifies himself with the god Khepera, and with Horus, the vanquisher of Set, and with Hhensu.

It has already been said that Seb was the god of the earth, and the Heliopolitans declared that he represented the very ground upon which their city stood, meaning that Heliopolis was th birthplace of the company of the gods, and in fact the work of creation began there. In several papyri we find pictures of the first act of creation which took place as soon as the Sun-god, by whatsoever name he may called, appeared in the sky, and sent forth his rays from the heights of heaven upon the earth, and in these Seb always occupies a very prominent position. He is seen lying upon the ground with one hand stretched out upon it, and the other extended towards heaven, which position. seems to be referred to in the text of Pepi I. lines 338,.339, wherein we read,

SEB AND NUT
"Seb throws out his {one} hand to heaven and his {one} hand "towards the earth," By his side stands the god Shu, who supports on his upraised hands the heavens which are depicated in the form of a women, whose body is bespangled with stars; this women is the goddess Nut, who is supposed to have lifted up from the embrace of Seb by Shu when he insinuated himself between their bodies and so formed the earth and the sky. This was the act of Shu which brought into being his heir Seb, and his consort Nut, and it was the heirship of this god which the kings of Egypt boasted they had received when they sat upon their thrones.

Seb was the hereiditary tribal chief of the gods, and his throne represented the sovereignty both of heaven and of earth; as a creative god he was identified with Tem, and so, as Dr. Brugsch pointed out, became the "father of his father." As an elementary god he represented the earth, as Ra did fire, and Shu air, and Osiris water. In some respects the attributes of Nut were assigned to him, for he is sometimes called the lord of the watery abyss, and the dweller in the watery mass of the sky, and the lord of the Underworld. He is also described as one of the porters of heaven's gate, who draws back the bolts, and opens the door in order that the light of Ra may stream upon the world, and when he set himself in motion his movements produced thunder in heaven and quaking upon earth. He was akin in some way to the two Akhru gods, who were represented as a lion with a head at each end of its body; this body was a personifaction of the passage in the earth through which the sun passed during the hours of night from the place where he set in the evening to that where he rose the next morning. The mouths of the lions formed the entrance into and the exit from the passage, and as the head of one lion sympolized the morning and the east, in later days each lion's head was provided with a separate body, and the one was called Sef, i.e., "Yesterday," and the other was called Tuau, i.e., "Today" {Book of the Dead, xvii, lines 14, 15}. though he was god of the earth Seb also acted as a guide to the deceased in heaven, and he provided him with meat and drink; numerous passages in the Book of the Dead refer to the gifts which he bestowed upon Osiris his son, and the deceased prayed fervently that he had bestowed upon him the same protection and help which he had bestowed upon Osiris.

In two passages in the Book of the Dead {Chapter xxxi. 3 of the Saite Recension; and Chapter lxix.7, Theban Recension} we appear to have an allusion to a myth concerning Seb which is otherwise unknown. In the former the deceased says, "I even I, am Osiris, who shut in his father Seb together with his mother "Nut on the day on the day of the great slaughter. My father is Seb and my mother is Nut"; and the latter he says, "I even I, am Osiris, "who shut in his father together with his mother on the day of "making the great slaughter," and the text adds, "now, the father is Seb, and the mother is Nut." The word used for "slaughter" is shat, and there is no doubt whatsoever about its meaning, and according to Dr. Bruhsch we are to understand an act of self-mutilation on the part of Ra, the father of Osiris, simular to that which is referred to in the Book of the Dead, Chapter xvii, line 61. According to this passage the gods Ammiu, sparng from the drops of blood which fell from Ra after the process of mutilation, and Dr. Brugsch compared the action of Osiris in shutting in, his father Seb with the punishment which Kronos inflicted upon his father Uranus because he threw the Cyclopes into Tartarus, and the Ammiu gods had an origin somewhat simular to that of the Erinnyes.

I wonder if the great poet Shakespeare ,founded his name after the 5th Egyptian Dynasty Pharoah Shepseskare ,who ruled around 2426-2419 bC??

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The ancient Egyptians once again reached out of the past to awe the world with another of their buried secrets - the Abydos ships. In 1991 in the desert near the temple of Khentyamentiu, archaeologists uncovered the remains of 14 ships dating back to the early first dynasty (2950-2775 BC), possibly associated with King Aha, the first ruler of that dynasty. These 75 foot long ships are buried side by side and have wooden hulls, rough stone boulders which were used as anchors, and "sewn" wooden planks. Also found within their desert graves were remains of the woven straps that joined the planks, as well as reed bundles that were used to seal seams between planks. The Abydos ships have the honor of being the world’s oldest planked boats.

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The causeway was divided into three lanes by low, thin mudbrick walls. The center lane was rather broad, while the two outside lanes were narrow. Curiously, the causeway was offset from the valley temple and both seem to have been oriented towards Heliopolis. This also relates to the 5th dynasty pyramids at Abusir, several of which together formed a line pointing to Heliopolis, as do the pyramid's at Giza. Ronald Wells believes that the temple may have also been aligned with certain stars that rose from the horizon around 2400 BC. If true, this might also mean that Userkaf's valley temple acted as an astronomical clock for the sacrifices which were made at dawn.

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This quite clearly relates the importance of Heliopolis,the center of thought. Thoth.

I tawt I taw a Thawth. I did,I did!!

We know he was active in the Sinai, though an inscription found there of him smiting his enemies may be largely symbolic. He may have also participated in military campaigns against Libyans. He probably had copper and turquoise mined at Magharah in the Sinai, as did other kings of this period. There is also evidence that he probably traded with Punt for malachite, myrrh, and electrum (a gold and silver alloy), as did Sahure before him.

It wouldn't surprise me if malachite and electrum made Orichalcum

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/niuserre.htm

Hittites lived on the Plateau of Asia Minor. Only a few rivers flowed down from the plateau. But one river, in particular was called the "way to the underworld", in Hittite language.

As you can probably guess, that river flowed down to Colchis.

On the Anatolian plateau, all water was fresh water from rain, rivers etc. But the "underworld" at the base of the plateau, was surrounded by salt water (Black Sea, Mediterranean Sea, etc. Thus Hitite mythology proposed that everything in the underworld was "dead"; crops did not grow when fertilized by sea water, and humans could not drink sea water.

When Greek sailors first entered the Black Sea, they were hearing rumors about the North Shore of Asia Minor being called the underworld.

Somehow a Greek legend got started that one entrance to the Underworld was near Troy, in northwest Asia Minor. At Troy, the Scamander river descends from the Anatolian Plateau.

But the story of Jason and the Argonauts involved a visit to the original "underworld", as known by the Hittites.

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So Vedics and A_Vedics were culturally two faces of the same coin and their migration from one such place to other such place is some routine internal matter like people moving to and fro between Bristol and London. Further any migration indicated here may pertain to some period near 1600 BC during the last of the four ages. It may not have any bearing on the origin of civilizations or directly upon Atlantean matters. However it may be important from the historical standpoint of our modern times and being a viewpoint shall be respected accordingly. In fact I feel that they are the Tribes of Atlantis i.e. AmPheres...

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I understand your viewpoint concerning Ampheres can also mean "on both sides" and the similiarity of A_Vedics to Am_Pheres.
Where some people point out that Ampheres can mean both sides of the mediterranean.

What I would like to see from India would be to tie in with MESTOR,which relates to Phoenicia and Syria and probably India.

We see a broken form of MSTR and a relationship with MR or MERU.

Who knows,India may even tie in with DIAPREPES?

My viewpoint being in agreement with civilization arising out of Africa.

Hence the mixture of Libyan,Egyptian mythologies spreading to Asia and Europe.
Where we see the many similiarities amongst cultures.

Which of course they came from Atlantis.

So we have Atlantis>Africa>Asia>Europe>world migration patterns.

Not really sure if they jumped across to Spain,or Crete to Peloponnesia before the horn of Africa causing a possible downward migration into India from Phrygia and Syria and back to Egypt??

Or if Atlantis migrated to Spain initially.

This is the only way I can see the Greeks being older than the Egyptians!!

A while back you mentioned the X group as possible Atlantean colonists.

Somewhere you posted a mtdna map link (green map)with different time eras you coud view.

The peculiar thing is the B group which represents Clovis man, as you stated.

This B group seems to be the dominant culture on many islands in the Pacific and Indian ocean. As well as America and S.America.

Which could relate the B group to the father's of the advanced microlithic industries?

This link says that Types A,B,C,D, and X all came across the Bering land bridge from Russia to the new world around 30,000 to 25,000 BC. Then a severe glaciation around 25,000 propelled the newcomers. Type X migrated to the Hudson Bay/James Bay region of Canada. But types A,B,C,D moved south, with some of those peoples extending as far as South America.

I don't think the experts are sure about which path the X group followed, when they came to the America's.

If it occurred, that would be the opposite of a prehistoric migration which carried Set (light skinned people, who sunburned to a red color= Caucasian??) away from the Caucasus region, and south into Egypt, perhaps around 6000 BC.

In regard to Sesostris, I think Herodotus was implying that the Egyptians could only have controlled Asia Minor before the Hitites rose to power (ca. 1800-1500 BC). If so, then Ramses II is too late to equate to Sesostris.

But I think you are on the right track, if you are suggesting that the story about Thoth's Emerald Tablets is related to a period when Egypt expanded its power northward.

I favor the era of pharaoh Thothmes III, who decided he could benefit by seizing and controlling the trade routes of Syria and Phoenicia, all the way to the Euphrates River.

Thothmes III sent armies north for roughly 18 consecutive summers, and finally conquored Kadesh. (Ramses II tried to hold Kadesh, but was not very successful.)

Even his name Thothmes, evokes the name of Thoth, so it seems reasonable to connect him to the Emerald tablets of Thoth.

Years of research in eastern Asia and Alaska have produced little evidence of any historical or technological connection between the Asian Paleolithic (Stone Age) and Clovis peoples. Also, the southeastern United States has produced more Clovis sites than the West, and a few radiocarbon dates suggest some of them may predate those in the western states. If correct, that hardly fits the notion that Clovis technology originated in northeast Asia or Alaska.
Over the years, various scholars have noted similarities between Clovis projectile points and “Solutrean” points, the product of a Paleolithic culture on the north coast of Spain between 22,000 and 16,500 years ago. Little credence has been given to suggestions of a direct connection between these technologies because of the 4,500-year time gap between the last of Solutrean and the first of Clovis, and because of doubts that people of the Upper Paleolithic could navigate the Atlantic Ocean.
But indirect evidence for Paleolithic ocean travel has been mounting. Although no boats have been found, we now know that by at least 40,000 years ago, watercraft carried a founding population to Australia. By 28,000 years ago, flintknappers were collecting raw materials from islands far off the Japanese coast. And closer to Spain, Paleolithic peoples inhabited some of the Mediterranean islands at least 14,000 years ago.

Circe (Kirke), the mighty hag in the Odyssee (Homer) was believed to have been a priestess of Hecate too.

Medea was also a priestess of Hecate and a mighty witch which is told in the Argonautica-Book. She called upon Hecates name in Colchis and Corinth to guide her:

Hecate as a mother goddess of older greek or Asian Minor times
degenerated in the eyes of the olympian greeks towards a lesser role in the myths.
Given the fact that she is refered to as a Titan,
she is older than the Olympian Gods and
one can assume that like many incarnations of the Great Goddess
she was transformed into something lunatic and somewhat evil.
http://inanna.virtualave.net/hekate.html#Titels

Funny how Alentejo almost sounds like Atlantean and Evora compares to Evenor.
http://www.cm-evora.pt/arqueologia/galeria_alm.htm

Apparently the most western point in Europe is Cabo de Roca,Portugal. Saturn's Seat??

Some other interesting notes on Portugal;

Tomar,Portugal-home to one of the largest Knights Templar castle and the Order of Christ in the 11th century.

Portugal=port o gral or port of the holy grail.

Ullyses was said to have founded Lisbon(olissipo).

The Legend of Horus of Behutet and the Winged Disk
http://touregypt.net/legendofhorusofbehutet.htm

The swamps of Uatch-ur (i.e., the Mediterranean).

Then Set rose up and came forth, and raged loudly with words of cursing and abuse because of the things wbich Heru-behutet had done in respect of the slaughter of the enemies.

And Ra said unto Thoth, "Let the enemies and Set be given over to Isis and her son Horus.
And she and her son Horus set themselves in position with their spears in him at the time when there was storm (or, disaster) in the district, and the Lake of the god was

10 called SHE-EN-AHA from that day to this. Then Horus the son of Isis cut off the bead of the Enemy [Set], and the heads of his fiends in the presence of father Ra and of the great company of the gods, and he dragged him by his feet through his district with his spear driven through his head and back. And Ra said unto Thoth,

11 "Let the son of Osiris drag the being of disaster through his territory;" and Thoth said, "It shall be (called ATEH," and this hath been the name of the region from that day to this. And Isis, the divine lady, spake before Ra, saying, "Let the exalted Winged Disk become the amulet of my son Horus, who hath cut off the head of the Enemy and the heads of his fiends."

I'm not exactly sure at what time this event took place as I just discovered this.

you wrote recently,
"This is the only way I can see the Greeks being older than the Egyptians!!"

Several theories (older than the DNA studies) have claimed that all modern peoples descend from the Caucasus Mountains. For example, consider the Zoroastrian stories about the orignal Aryan homeland in Checheniya (which they called the land of Aryanem Vaijeh). This theme was borrowed, expanded, and added to the Bible (i.e. the story of Noah's Ark, landing at Ararat) while the Jewish people were in their Babylonian Capitivity.

Recently you mentioned that southern Egypt seems to have become depopulated from roughly 10,000 BC to 7000 BC.

That would have paved the way for
light-skinned Set people (i.e. ancient Caucasians) to migrate to western Egypt around 6000 BC.

I presume some of the Set people intermarried with some black people in Egypt, leaving behind the distinctive appearance of the early Egyptian dynasties.

If you think about it, this explains what the Egyptians meant when they told Solon that the Greeks (i.e. Causcasians, proto-Set people) were organized 1000 years earlier than the Egyptian state itelf.

It also explains why the Greeks like Herodotus thought that the Phrygians (of Asia Minor) were the oldest race on earth.

This link says that the war took place in the year 363 of the reign of Ra-Horakte on earth, and that the location was at the border between Nubia and Egypt.

"The Myth of the Winged Disk--
In the year 363 of the reign of Ra-Horakhti upon the earth it befell that the god was in Nubia with a mighty army. Set, the Evil One, had rebelled against him, for Ra was advanced in years, and Set was of all beings the most cunning and treacherous" http://www.horuspublications.com/about/myths.html

QUOTE >> Zoroastrian stories about the original Aryan homeland in Checheniya (which they called the land of Aryanem Vaijeh). This theme was borrowed, expanded, and added to the Bible (i.e. the story of Noah's Ark, landing at Ararat) while the Jewish people were in their Babylonian Captivity. << UNQUOTE

Proper inclusion and pronunciation or elimination and distortion of the letter “H” is very important in correlation of movement of various tribes. In my humble opinion, there existed no such race as Aryan. Anything being understood as Aryan has to be either Aryo-Dravidian or pure Dravidian. Whereas Aryo-Dravidians can be considered as the religious peoples of the Atlantis, Dravidians can be expected to be the ancient warrior peoples of Atlantis.

I feel that Aryo-Dravids used the pronunciation of “H” in its proper perspective. On the other hand at the starting nodes, the ancient Dravidians tend to replace “E” with “He”, “O” with “Ho”, “Hi” with ”I” and “Ha” with ”A”.

I think that ancient White Dravidians migrated from Himalayas to Central Asia and Europe during the ice ages, may be before 15000 BC. Whereas dark or fair colored Aryo-Dravidians would have migrated to Europe during ~9600 BC or ~5500 BC. So at all those places we find a mixed reaction to the presence of alphabet “H”. On one hand we find Hercules, Harmageddon, Herodotus, Herapolis, Harris, Harmenia etc. On the other hand we find Armageddon, Erick, Armenia, Ireland etc. Both these variants arising out of the same constant "Hari". Russian tend to replace “H” with “Kh” generally at the central nodes.

In fact Indo-Aryans could not have migrated during 2500 BC from Iran to India as a part of some new culture, because the so-called pre Aryan Indus valley and Sarasvati river cultures already existing then, were Aryan in content and form. As such the so-called Aryans never needed any Aryan migration towards India.

It appears that the Aryans of Central Asia were influenced more by the Dravidians than the Aryans, because they called their sacred land as “Aryanem Vaijeh”. This should have been called as “Harinam Vijayah” or “Name of Hari is victorious”. However this name could have properly been as “Harinam Vaijayantium” with the same meaning. We find that “Harinam” is phonetically similar with Harnemia or Armenia and “Vaijayantium” is similar to “Bazentine”. Incidentally Ajer Baizan or Ayer Baizan also matches with the same “Arya Vaijeh”. Ancient Chechenya or Shishinya or “Aryanem Vaijeh” could have been a region of influence beyond the northern slopes of Kurdistan and extending in west up to Constantinople.

Zoroaster was a strange religious prophet. Many scholars think he lived around 600 BC. But his sacred writings imply that their setting was around 5000 BC.

Zoroaster grew up in Azerbaijan, but at first his religious outlook was not accepted in his homeland. So Zoroaster migrated east to the border of Iran and Pakistan. And there he found several kings who adopted his religion. (As you have noted recently, this may have been an "anti-religion".)

Indo-Europeans scholars typically claim that "arya" means "noble'. But I regard this as an example of your "disappearing h" syndrome. It seems more realistic to me to regard arya as meaning a "hero".

Long before Zoroaster was born, the Aras river was used as a migration route, leading from warm-winter lowlands in Azerbaijan to the cool summer (highland) pastures of the the Ararat mountain range.

This annual migration of itinerant cowherders brought some early Indo-Europeans (or whatever we should call them, perhaps Aryo-Dravidians) into contact with the kingdom of Urartu, which maintained trading relations with the Sumerian city of Uruk.

Urartu was buying grain, around 3500 BC. So it must have been selling something else to Uruk. We know about this trade from Sumerian literature, the epic of Enmerkar. Probably Urartu was selling turquoise, lapis lazuli, and metals.

The literature from Uruk talks about how eager Uruk was to go to war with the distant land of Urartu. No corresponding literature has been preserved from the region of Urartu. But clearly, the kingdom of Urartu --a) needed to protect itself; and b) had trading profits that it could spend to hire mercenary soldiers.

It seems inwevitable that our Aryo-Dravidian (or perhaps Indo-European) cowherders began to serve as mercenary soldiers for the kingdom of Urartu.

Later, whenever Urartu was either conquored or became poor, our Aryo-Dravidian soldiers probably moved away -- seeking other rich kings to hire them for protection. And a trip to India might have been practical, if there were any rich kingdoms in India.

I may be also thinking on similar lines as you. The phonetic similarity between the words “Hari” and “Arya” and their conjunction with other unknown words must would have confused many modern historians. That is why we find some Aryan histories and theories that do not find any proper connections and tend to confuse head with the tail.

Hari and Arya are entirely two separate things. Hari is one of the Gods of Trinity, whereas Arya is the nobility or virtue or as you rightly said as the “Hero”. So Arya may be a man who can be a noble representative of God Hari and so the “Hero” is born.

Hari may be relatively a much broader term than Aryan. All the Aryans are supposed to be the followers of Hari, but all the followers of Hari need not to be the Aryans. For example, I have not seen anybody associating Jordan River or Region with Hari. Rather it is generally considered to be the opposite.

However, Jordan << Haridhan or Hardhan = Property or wealth of God Hari or Har.

Regarding “Uruc” and “Uratu’, it may be almost certain that Uruc is the ancient Ur. It was the supplier of grains. However the supplier of minerals i.e. “Uratu” may be slightly unclear. There can be three candidates for Uratu.

The first candidate can be the ancient city Godhan of Kurdistan, which is sometimes also considered as the ancient sunken Arrata. It could be a supplier of minerals from the mountains. Here it is worth noting that mountain city of Godhan could have never sunken, so it was considered as Arrata as a replica of the sunken parts of Bharata (India).

The second candidate for “Uratu” can be Bharata (India) itself or some of its western region. However in size Bharata can not be compared with Uruc.

So I think that the third and most probable candidate for Uratu may be “Herat” in Afghanistan. This may be at the outpost of Bharata in those days. It may be having many minerals. Also Herat may be rather unknown to Uruc, so a wish to conquer them. Whereas Godhan may be somewhat known to Uruc.

I think that Prophet Zoraster may would have been there around 1600 BC. You are correct that his philosophical roots contain the Biblical antithesis material of around 5000 BC that could have got further enriched in around 3102 BC. This may be some Asurian or Assyrian impact. However it is to their credit, that most scholars consider them to be the real Aryans with a race.

Here I would humbly like to add that if the Thesis was within the circle of India, then the Antithesis had to be in the outer ring of India. That was to be the Iran. This may also imply that the Synthesis had to be at the outermost of the rings. That was to be in Kurdistan, Middle East, Egypt, Europe and the west in general.

QUOTE >> It seems inevitable that our Aryo-Dravidian (or perhaps Indo-European) cowherders began to serve as mercenary soldiers for the kingdom of Urartu.
Later, whenever Urartu was either conquored or became poor, our Aryo-Dravidian soldiers probably moved away -- seeking other rich kings to hire them for protection. And a trip to India might have been practical, if there were any rich kingdoms in India. << UNQUOTE

As India, Afghanistan and Kurdistan, all were the power generating stations of the Aryo-Dravidians (or whatsoever), so irrespective of the location of Uruc, they would have heartily fought for Uruc. However one thing is certain that after the MahaBharata (Great India) War in ~ 5500 BC and then after 3102 BC, some sort of anarchy started building up a backlash. This situation could have been ripe for the growth of the mercenaries. Even they could have managed to reach to Libya, Egypt and Anatolia as the Sea Peoples. While the cow herders i.e. ancient Kanh peoples started serving to the Uratu or Herat Kings, in that process their names got changed to modern Khan peoples.

Urartu and Aratta are virtually the same. They were in Armenia, in the mountains of Ararat.

Uruk is a well known archaeological site in southern Mesopotamia (biblical Erech, modern Warka).

The so-called "sunken city" of Aratta was reached (from Uruk) by travelling across 7 mountain passes, and then DESCENDING into a plain.

Here is a link which explains this, and also demonstrates that the Garden of Eden, and its 4 major rivers, were located in this same Region. http://www.nunki.net/PerDud/TheWorks/Express/Paradise.html

This was a geographic fact. And it can still be recognized.

The Talysh mountains are a chain which leads southeast from the Caucasus.

here is a quote:
"Except for its eastern Caspian shoreline and some areas bordering Georgia and Iran, Azerbaijan is ringed by mountains. To the northeast, bordering Russia's Dagestan Autonomous Republic, is the Greater Caucasus range; to the west, bordering Armenia, is the Lesser Caucasus range. To the extreme southeast, the Talysh Mountains form part of the border with Iran. The highest elevations occur in the Greater Caucasus, where Mount Bazarduzu rises 4,740 meters above sea levelto the southwest is the massive Transcaucasian upland extending to Armenia and Georgia, mounted by the Lesser Caucasus, to the south the Talysh Mountains join them."

Halaf people lived in the mountains around Ararat, Azerbaijan, Mosul, etc. Their ancient territory corresponds to where the modern Kurdish peoples live.

They invented making pottery from clay (resembling the Biblical claim that Adam was made from clay).

And they were the first to domesticate dogs for herding aninals.

I presume these Halafian people were the "cowherders" whom Zoroaster admired so much, and whom Zoroaster said were the ancestors of all civilized humans.

The following article indicates that the people who superceeded the Halafians were the Ubaid people (c.a 5300 BC). Zoroaster called those latecomers daeva's. But modern archaeologists treat them as proto-Sumerians from the Tigris-Euphrates delta.

quote:
l. The earliest evidence thus far of a unified and distinct culture shared by the people inhabiting the Kurdish mountains relates to the period of the 'Halaf Culture' which emerged about 8000) years ago. Named for the ancient mound of Tel Halaf in what is uow Syrian Kurdistan (west of the town of Qamishli), this culture is best known for its easily recognizable style of pottery which, fortunately, was produced in abundance. Exquisitely painted, delicately designed Halaf pottery is easily distinguishable from earlier and later productions. Judging from pottery

In fact, taking Halaf pottery as a prime example, many archaeologists now point out that shared pottery style is a simple but crucial tool in helping to classify prehistoric cultures in the Middle East. Yet, while shared pottery can imply shared culture, it can no more imply shared ethnicity than identical rug designs today. For example, the Turkic Qashqai, Luric Mamasani and Arab Baseri tribes of the southern Zagros mountains all share similar rug patterns. Ethno-linguistically, however, these three peoples share virtually nothing else. This fact serves as a clear warning to those who would use shared artistic styles as an indication of shared ethnicity. More prudently, pottery styles must be taken in tandem with other evidence in order to make a case for shared culture and ethnicity.

Wide-spread Halafian excavation sites have much more in common than styles of pottery. Solid evidence has now emerged indicating striking similarities in food, technology, architecture, ritual practices and ornaments, all of which suggest something more substantive. Archaeologist Julian Reade, now a curator at the British Museum's Department of Western Asiatic Antiquities has this to say: 'While we really know little about how the inhabitants of a Halaf village thought, let alone what language or languages they used for thinking, and what levels of abstraction could be expressed verbally, it seems likely they had comparable social structures, sharing many of the same implicit values, and that even those who did not travel regularly may have met from time to time in religious or administrative centers." (Reade, 1991).

With the aid of these archaeological criteria, Reade as well as Michael Roaf (archaeologist and former director of the British School of Archaeology in Iraq, and now at the University of California, Berkeley) have determined the boundaries of Halaf culture. They coincide almost exactlywith the area ethnic Kurds still call home: from Kirmanshah to Adyaman, and from Afrin near the Mediterranean Sea to northern areas of Lake Van. The distribution of Halaf pottery and the distribution of ethnic Kurds today are a near-perfect match. The single exception is the Mosul-Tikrit region of the Mesopotanian lowlands which also yields Halaf pottery. James Melaart, better known for his excavation of Catal Huyuk, found many of the motifs and composite designs present on Halaf pottery and figurines still extant in the textile and decorative designs of the modern Kurds who now inhabit the same excavated Halafian sites.

It is highly unlikely that the Halafian people constituted an immigrant population. According to several demographic studies (e.g., T. Cuyler Young, 1977; P. Smith, 1971; Bridsell, 1957; and particularly, P. Smith and T. Cuyler Young, 1982) the Zagros mountains were the site of perennial population surplus and pressure from 12000 to 5000 years ago, which must have resulted in numerous episodes of emigration. This population pressure in the Zabros-Taurus folds was a consequence of successive technological advances in domestication of common crops and animals and resulted in a prosperous agricultural economy and trade; therefore high population density. The Halafian phenomenon is likely the result of a massive internal migration that succeeded in culturally unifying the population in Kurdistan.

The fact that Halaf culture spread so rapidly over such a considerable distance across the rugged Kurdish mountains is thought to have been the result of the development of a new life style and economic activity necessitating mobility, namely nomadic herding. All of the pre-requisite technologies had been developed, and essential animals, particularly the dog, had been domesticated by settled agriculturalists. Halafian figures of dogs (ca. 6000 BC) with upcurled tails unlike that of any specie of wolf, were unearthed in Jarmo in central Kurdistan. They provide the earliest definitive evidence of the development of man's "best friend" and the herder's most prized protection. Nomadic herding has since been a very mobile cornerstone of Zagros-Taurus cultures and societies.

quote:

---

"The shortest trajectory from the northern(Mediterranean) to the southern(Red Sea) Sea leads from the hill of Kasiou,"

and;

" Libya shows clearly that it is surrounded by the sea, except where it borders on Asia. Nekos king of Egypt made this discovery first known. When he had stopped the digging of the canal connecting the Nile to the Arabian Gulf, he sent Phoenicians in ships, with orders to sail on their return voyage past the Pillars of Heracles until they entered the northern sea and so returned to Egypt."

---

There are 3 important factors to consider here.

1) Herodotus speaks before the time of Plato's Critias,(360bC).

2)They had their directions in the right order. North,South,East,West.

3)Past the Pillars of Hercules is definitely Gibraltar.

So it seems fair to state that Atlantis is in the Atlantic Ocean and not Indonesia or the Black Sea. Nor could it be S.America,America, for Atlantis sinking clogged the entrance to Gibraltar.

The other important factor to consider that Atlantis was not in Indonesia is the 72+ volcanos in that area. These numerous volcanic eruptions would have hindered Atlantis' growth,theoreticaly.

What I strongly feel is that Atlantis was a continental island, including Cape Verde,Canaries,Madeira and Azores islands respectfully. There is evidence of beach sand and freshwater animals found near the Atlantic Ocean ridge which deserves merit.

Also this 1632 map in the British Library called Africa Nova Tabula which shows Cape Verde as the Hesperides and 5 Gorgons;
http://diglib1.amnh.org/cgi-bin/tpicmap?n=c0232-03.tjp&w=3&h=2&l=4&r=2&c=1]

As to the destruction of Atlantis,this could have developed from either an Earth shift or an asteroid,possibly extinguishing 95% of the Continental Island with a few skeletons remaining(Cape Verde,Canaries,Madeira and Azores). Thoth the Atlantean even mentions in the emerald tablets that Unal still exists as well as Egyptian Priests carrying the Tablets around 1300 bC throughout the mediterranean and eventually to S.America where the Mayans(2000bC)still had memories of Atlantis. The Tablets were buried around one of the Sun God temples,where Doreal in 1925 was sent to retreive them and return them to the Great Pyramid in Egypt. Doreal was granted permission to record the Tablets except for 2 which were too dangerous for the human species.

Clearly we see the association with S.America.

Possibly, the Great Flood or disaster could be around 6482 bC which relates to my eye of Ra theory in the Astrologically Atlantis thread based on the Ecliptic alignment of Jupiter,Saturn,Neptune and Mars with Pluto passing from Orion's hand into Leo's eye.

To be clear,this was not the final end of Atlanteans.

Another important comment from the Egyptian Priest is his statement of Greece being before the Egyptians. Hence the great record keepers the Egyptians were,they probably knew about Pharaoh Menes in 3000bC. Sheds light closer to 9000 years rather than 900 years.

This is my personal opinion and not Oxford Kraft Dinner.

[This message has been edited by Riven (edited 10-24-2003).]

In the Emerald Tablet of Thoth we find this;
3,4,5,6,7,8,9=7 keys.

3=Untanas =dark power,key of all magic,underworld.

4=Quertas loosens power,frees souls

5=Chietal master of all

6=Goyana lord of light,hidden path

7=Huertal lord of space and time

8=Semveta progress,judges

9=Ardal Father

Horlet is master of Unal

Undal island still exists

dark prince of Arulu
realm of Ekershegal

I was wondering what is your perceptions of the meaning and origins that these names come from??

They seem to relate to Mayan or India?

Thoth also says that "the word" is ZIN-URU.

The closest meaning to Zin-Uru that I find is from the Greek(Perseus Tufts)translations,where;

Zin=Zio=Zeteo=to seek
Uru=deuro=hither to seek hither?

Zin-Uru,numericaly in relation to the alphabet translates to;

Zin=26,9,14(2+6+9+1+4)=22=(2+2)=4
Uru=21,18,21=15=6
6+4=10

Your points regarding Halaf and Ubaid cultures are quite interesting. Prophet Zoraster knowing well about all these ancient cultures indicates, that there was always a parallel traditional priesthood (For Antithesis) since those olden times and the records were being kept. Ubaid peoples being called as Dev by Zoraster may show that they both may be against each other. Ubaid culture may be favorably related to Halaf and then to Hurrian in some way or the other. Curiously, If we read the Ubaid in reverse order, we phonetically find the Dev. Although I know that this may not be the proper case, but is surely strange.

Anyhow the presence of the Thesis and Antithesis both together in this region may indicate that the Armenian – Kurdistani Region may be containing the ancient Eden i.e. a symbol of Synthesis. Some people there and in the vicinity opted in favor of the Thesis and some went against.

Ubaids can be Proto – Sumerians because Sumeru and Dev (Ubaid) are supposed to have a lot of affinity. This may allude that the Gods were the founders of the Sumerian Civilization.

Although I do not have any clear background knowledge of Thoth and his teachings, and the real pronunciations of the Egyptian writings are still not properly known. As such limited to my understanding, I can just try to put a hand on the so-called decoding:

Untanas >> Ananta = Infinity / Or the Snake Ananta on which God Hari rests / Here snake Ananta can be associated with the underworld.

Quertas >> Karta = The Executive God / Also said to be the Super- Soul God in the ethereal form ranking above the Trinity of Brahma, Hari, and Har. / So can be associated with souls.

Chietal >> Sri Atal = Respected Atal / God of Atlantis / can be Atlas, Poseidon, Varuna, Hari or Har / So master of all?

Goyana >> Gow Yana = Vimana (Airoplane) of Cow / may indicate Hari or Krishna

Heurtal >> Har Atal = God Har (Shiva) of Atlantis / Atlas or Poseidon or Varuna / Shiva is supposed to be the Lord of Time.

Semveta >> SamVeda = Fourth sacred book of Veda (I do not know what this is doing in Egypt?) / Or it can be “Samhita” i.e. “The code of conduct“.

I can not yet correlate other words.

However QUOTE>> “Thoth also says that "the word" is ZIN-URU.” << UNQUOTE... this word puzzles me.

“Zin” is supposed to be the last antiGod (Red Dragon?) on this earth and “Uru or Hari” is supposed to meet him at Harmagadhan. I can not say what Thoth really meant by this “the word”.

With Regards...

Good Work! Those are very good translations.
Very interesting.

Zin-uru,I gather,was supposed to be a chant for meditation? Hence "the word".

The meaning of Thoth was very spiritual in the sense of enlightment towards the Light.

He repeatedly warns to stay away from the "dark brothers"(Evil)and always focus on the light(Good).

by Janet K. Turner

The Emerald Tablet not only operates on the grand scale of personal enlightenment but also on an every day, day to day, level when you are seeking answers to questions and situations. Each question or situation you find yourself to be in represents a different aspect of the whole macro process of enlightenment. So even if you find yourself to be perplexed about a seemingly small matter, by following the procedure of the Emerald Tablet and letting go of the dross and piercing the clouds of unknowing, the answer to that small matter will be revealed to you just as the experience of total enlightenment was. That is the whole theme of the Emerald Tablet, a continuing spiral stream of enlightenment – knowledge - by going from Above to Below and back again. No matter how small, no matter how large, it is the same – Above to Below and back again, a continuing spiraling process.

After Enlightenment – what next – chop wood, carry water, do the laundry. The small chores of life can be just as entangling as the search for your essence and so to retain your balance, your Enlightenment, you must continue to employ the same process over and over again seeking your answers in the Above and bringing them down to the Below.

After all, as sophisticated as man is with his technology and his vast accomplishments and levels or organization, it is the small thing, the O-ring, the microbe, that can bring those “measures of mankind” crashing down into oblivion. And so the process goes, above to below, work and prayer, labor and oratory – always asking, checking, verifying, praying, being unattached – watching for the rock in the road. The big ones are easy to see. It is the small, the minute that are treacherous, that can spell unseen disaster and that is the message of the Emerald Tablet in so many words. As Above so Below – as Below, so Above – continually over and over – as long as you live this earthly life.

For it is in the Above, the universal knowledge, that unseen cosmic swirl of energy and information that you must tap into for your answers – for all your answers come from Above and all your questions come from Below.

For we, humans, came from above to learn these special earthly lessons – the answers and solutions and exercises come from Above to be realized here in the Below. So the Emerald Tablet is not just an archaically phrased bit of ancient knowledge for us to ponder it’s meaning in our lives. It is to be used each and every day, each and every minute, so to speak, constantly throwing off the dross, cutting to the chase – piercing the clouds of unknowing and reaching into the Above for the answer.

These last two come from Assyro-Babylonian mythology, with minor spelling variants.

"Ereshkigal" was the undisputed ruling goddess of the underworld. And her lower world was sometimes called the "arallu".

Here is an interesting twist, with a possible connection to Zoroastrian ideas. The cattle-god lived at Ereshkigal's underworld court.

quote:
"Belit-tseri, the female tablet-scribe, knelt before Ereshkigal and Sumuquan, the cattle god resided in her underworld court. Heroes and priests resided there, as well, and mighty kings served others food. So we can see that Ereshkigal had actual, not referred, power. She ruled death as an equal portion of the span from creation to destruction. She judged and commanded both men and women. She had sexual autonomy and authentic agency." http://www.gotojassminesitenow.com/goddesses/ereshkigal.html

You recently posted about Hecate as the all-powerfull goddess. I suspect that the word root "kigal" evolved into Greek "Hecate".

If so then Ereshkigal is Hecate and is also Ekurshegal.

So it seems that this Ereshkigal relates to the Titans in a sense?

Which should relate to Seth and Nephthys.

Most likely Ereshkigal is also linked to Hecate for as we know Medea called upon Hecate.

So it seems that these underworlds relate to the western hemisphere in the direction of Atlantis,which to them in those days would be viewed as falling off the edge of the Earth like the sun.

And as we've seen not only from Rajesh's post but also according to the 7 world Epochs in Martha's 10,500 bC thread,that India in some way is related to Atlantis or possibly was involved in a war with them as well!! This would be highly likely because of Atlantis' journeys through the Erythraean ocean.

Aquarius 23,546 to 21,386 BC
Capricorn 21,386 to 19,226 BC
Sagittarius 19,226 to 17,066 BC
Scorpio 17,066 to 14,906 BC
Libra 14,906 to 12,746 BC
Virgo 12,476 to 10,586 BC
Leo 10,586 to 8,426 BC

That being very well expressed, Dr. Steiner has given us numerous lectures on the exact dates of the cultural epochs for the five Post-Atlantean civilizations as follows:

1. Cancer 7227 BC Hindu/Indian
2. Gemini 5067 BC Persian
3. Taurus 2907 BC Egyptian/Chaldean
4. Aries 747 BC Greek/Roman
5. Pisces 1414 AD European

This being diagnosed, we can extrapolate the exact dates for the cultural epochs of the Fourth Atlantean Root Race as follows:

1. Rmoahals 22,347 BC Aquarius
2. Tlavathis 20187 BC Capricorn
3. Toltecs 18027 BC Sagittarius
4. Turanians 15876 BC Scorpio
5. Semites 13707 BC Libra
6. Accadians 11547 BC Virgo
7. Mongolians 9387 BC Leo
http://www.vermontel.net/~vtsophia/7AGES.htm

Their first sub-race was the Rmoahals, a nation of giants; the second was the Tlavatlis, a red-skinned, wandering people.

The third sub-race, the Toltecs, was guided by the Masters for a time, and Toltec empire, using occult knowledge wisely, lasted a hundred thousand until they abandoned the Masters' teachings.

As soon as they did a secret society of evil magicians took power in Atlantis and the people were indoctrinated into worshiping elemental spirits with bloody rituals.

The Toltecs were conquered by the barbarous Turanians (the fourth sub-ancestors of the Aztecs).

They were replaced in succession by the Semites, ancestors of the modern Jews, the Akkadians, who settled the lands around Mediterranean, and the Mongolians, ancestors of the modern East Asians.

A small group of Semites traveled to Central Asia and under the direction of the Masters evolved into the Aryans, the Fifth Root Race.