|
Author
|
Topic: Tribes of Atlantis
|
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-19-2003 23:47
So Far; ATLAS-NW Africa,Morrocco(Berbers/Mesh'wesh/ Pharusii). GADEIRUS- Iberia/Gades,(Cadiz),Spain, Olissipo(Lisbon)Portugal. AMPHERES-Sicily/Sardinia/Italy EVAEMON- Algeria/Tunisia/Libya/(Atalantes,Garamantes/Ammonium/Capsians)MNESEUS-Minoan Crete/King Minos/Amnisus. AUTOCHTHON-Argos/Attica,Cycladean(Greeks. ELASSIPUS-Ephaesus/Ionia/Caria(Turkey). MESTOR-Phoenicia/Syria AZAES-Mauretania,(Azas/Azamor) DIAPREPES-Egypt/Nubians. Based on Atlantean migration from 10,840 bC. Countries Liberated after Great Battle and Atlantis sinking. 2850-9600 bC.
IP: 142.161.183.127 |
atalante Member Posts: 1301 From: Tucson AZ USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted 09-20-2003 11:02
Riven, Hecateus (500 BC) combined, or borrowed 2 concepts: 1) From Thales (550 BC), he borrowed the notion that the Earth is a flat circular disc, floating in water; and 2) Anaximander had drawn a local map, which is a concept that Hecateus expanded to worldwide scale. http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/a/anaximan.htm#Map%20of%20the%20world (Anaximander proposed that only the mid-latitudes contained nations and cities; North of Greece and Italy it was too cold, whereas south of Egypt it was too hot for civilized people to live. Spain sealed off the west edge of the Mediterranean, just as Palestine formed the east edge of the Mediterranean Sea. Anaximander's "world" was bordered on the east by Persia. And it did not float in an encircling Ocean of water. http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/a/anaximan.htm#Map%20of%20the%20world To do his work, Hecateus talked to sailors and collected a list of coastlines, port cities, and waterways. But as the monograph to map #108 mentions, Hecateus did not seem to know the names of people (or port cities) anywhere on the outer perimeter of the "circular disc" of Thales' philosophical Earth.
By studying Hecateus map, it is obvious that he know about Tangiers, about Lixus, Morocco, and about Gadir (Tartessus) Spain. So Hecateus knew that the Phoenicians were beginning to expand to the outer coastlands of what Thales had considered to be a "circular disc" surrounded by water. Thales got his disc-in-water concept from Egypt. And Thales had visited Egypt at nearly the same time when Solon had visited Egypt. So perhaps Solon was the first or second Greek to hear that the "whole earth" was surrounded by, and floating on, water. Here is a link which explains where Hecateus got the info for drawing his famous "world map": http://www.wls.wels.net/conted/Science/After%20Creation/After%20Creation%20010%20 Hecateus.PDF [This message has been edited by atalante (edited 09-20-2003).]
IP: 198.81.26.168 |
atalante Member Posts: 1301 From: Tucson AZ USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted 09-20-2003 11:28
This is a comment about the tribe of Atlantis called Gadeirus, and most especially I will give a link to demonstrate what ancient Greeks considered to be the ORIGINAL name of that tribal region.Modern historians suspect that the kingdom of Tartessus (i.e. perhaps Carambolo, or some other ancient city near modern Seville Spain) collapsed around 600-500 BC. At that time, Turdetani peoples moved down from the middle of Spain, and seized the Guadalquivir region, on the northern side of Tartessus. As for the southern side of the kingdom of Tartessus, it was seized by a coalition of two groups: 1) the Turduli peoples from Morocco, plus the "Bastiani", who were Phoenician colonies in southeast Spain. This background info helps to explain how Cadiz/Gadir came to have its modern name. It was named using a Semitic root word (gdr), by the coalition of Turduli Moroccans, and Bastiani Phoenicians. But Greek historians and mythologers also claimed to know the EARLIER name of Gadir/Cadiz, and its surrounding region/province. Here is a link which demonstrates that the previous name had been Erythia Island (named after Erythia, dauther of Atlas and member of the group which Greeks called Hesperides): http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/search?query=Erythia+Gadira
IP: 198.81.26.168 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-21-2003 15:34
THE HELLENIC LANGUAGE http://www.ancientgr.com/Unknown_Hellenic_History/Eng/HELLENIC_LANGUAGE.htm Be sure to check this site thoroughly. It adds emphasis to Ancient Greece in the time of Atlantis and the Egyptian priests testimony of Greece's age. Very peculiar how the Hawaiin and Peruvian cultures shared words with the Greeks.
IP: 142.161.188.50 |
oscar Member Posts: 2342 From: belo horizonte, brazil Registered: Feb 2003
|
posted 09-21-2003 15:49
This guy, Enrico Mattievich did an article (I think it was for National Geographic)in which he said the rivers of the Amazon were the basis for the mythological river Styx and Perifletonte, mentions the similarities between Siracusa gorgona and places in Chavin, Peru. It's not the only one suggesting this. A linguist, Natalia Tariffi, Toscan herself, admited Etrurians CAME FROM PERU (by the way, she knows Quechua of the Incas as well as did Honorio Mossi in the past, this other guy also knew Basque). It's odd since she would be tempted to say the opposite (Quechua came out from Etruria) since she's an Etrurian descent!Her book America 4th Dimension, Etrurians Came from Peru was full of photos comparing both culture. I don't think the book was ever translated to English.
IP: 200.243.205.140 |
oscar Member Posts: 2342 From: belo horizonte, brazil Registered: Feb 2003
|
posted 09-21-2003 16:05
As you can check all over this forum, I go even beyond that claim. Not just the Amazon rivers were the source of those myths but actually when we think about the people of Ad (ADAM) or all the names in a circuit in both sides of the Atlantic Ocean with the universal memory of the letters ATL, we're talking about a very old story when the planisphere has to be seen DIFFERENTLY as we see know. Not just cos Atlantis sank but because continents were closer, South America was closer -or part- of Africa and Titicaca Lake was a sea. There's always gonna be controversy about the exact place because many people want to forget there were 10 KINGDOMS related to Atlantis.It was spread in certain areas in both sides of the "current" Atlantis Ocean. Yes, we like to say Plato heard the account and follow the trail until we hear the gossip from Egyptians. Yet for the Egyptians their own country was seen different. Spinning the globe to make South Pole being UP, Egypt can be seen down and in the middle. www.earth360.com/his-atlantis.html Yet the map is wrong cos it doesn't portray the Pangea of that time cos nobody imagine that account happening thousands of years ago but millions of years ago. They trust too much in geologists who can't even describe the forces that split the continents or fail to give any explanation about cartography puzzles or catastrophes happening in Holocene times! Those stories are not explained just because of migratory waves but are lost in the midst of pre-Deluge or Deluge time when the Earth parted and there were people to witness and survive the catastrophe. That explain the similarities between different languages because there was a unique root once upon a time. Even the Bible says the people wander from the East to the West. It didn't occur in our modern planet with already split continents moving the slow motion 6 cm per year.Check original Hebrew in Genesis 10:25; 11:1,2.If you ask me why do I have to credit the Bible, I have to say check all the times in this forum it's been discussed the reality of Noah's Deluge, parting of the Red Sea and the evidence of golden wheels of Egyptian charriot in Aqaba,etc,etc,etc. Now, Plato's account, that's something different.
IP: 200.243.205.140 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-21-2003 19:34
AFRICA DURING THE LAST 150,000 YEARS http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercAFRICA.html An interesting website;scroll to bottom (related pages) http://robotwisdom.com/science/paleopsych/
IP: 142.161.177.45 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-22-2003 03:36
Oscar; From my perception the continents were still very far apart 10 million years ago. I understand your claiming these events should be thousands of years ago which I'm sure Global Positioning Satellites and new data would tend to relate to millions of years ago,or at least hundreds of thousands of years ago. http://cddisa.gsfc.nasa.gov/926/slrtecto.html I tend not to relate too much on the Bible because it was written by man around 300bC and adapted to fit zionist freemasonery in my view. Have a look at this MTDNA map and you'll see it seems impossible for the Etrusians to come from Peru,unless they are wrong and civilization started in North or South America. http://www.mitomap.org/mitomap/WorldMigrations.pdf People crossed via the IceAge,Seafaring,the Bearing Straite or along Antarctica. Or from Atlantis or Lemuria.
IP: 142.161.178.173 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-22-2003 11:51
Atalante; I understand your comments about Hecataeus. Also,Herodotus travelled more in his journeys and was more factual in relating his maps.Those Hesperides seem to be somewhat of a mystery. Some people relate the Golden Apples to sheep with golden fleece. Hercules retained the golden fleece in the Black Sea area. There is mention of them being in Spain or Libya or Hyperborea. Heracles when he searched for them went north to Macedonia where he fought Cycnos 3 near the Echedorus river. Then he seized Nereus who resides in the Aegean sea. Seems to me this gives Hyperborea or the Black Sea area a good position. Why didn't he just sail to Libya or Spain? The mention of Hercules asking Atlas to get the apples relates the Atlas mountains. There is also mention that Atlas was from Arcadia, again relating to the Hyperborean or Black Sea area. Most of Hercules tasks took place in Peloponnesia and he sailed to Troy. Atlas is said to have reigned in Arcadia and have been succeeded by Deimas, son of Dardanus 1, the king who is at the origin of the royal house of Troy. But Atlas is also said to have ruled in northwestern Africa where he had, among other riches, a tree with golden leaves, golden branches, and golden fruits. Some affirm that these are the Golden Apples that were given by Gaia, as a wedding present, to Zeus and Hera.
IP: 142.161.178.120 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-23-2003 10:33
News Views;Arctic ice shelf breakup reported the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf, on the north coast of Ellesmere Island in Canada’s Nunavut territory, broke into two Largest ice shelf in region was solid for 3,000 years http://www.msnbc.com/news/970325.asp Earliest modern humans in Europe http://www.msnbc.com/news/970342.asp?0sl=-12 Jawbone found in Romanian cave suggests crossbreeding THE JAWBONE, found in southwestern Carpathian Mountains of Romania, was carbon-dated to between 34,000 and 36,000 years ago, said Erik Trinkaus of Washington University in St. Louis,
IP: 142.161.176.18 |
oscar Member Posts: 2342 From: belo horizonte, brazil Registered: Feb 2003
|
posted 09-23-2003 12:45
Riven: Bible accounts are ancient ones. Yet, the compilation is probably late. Yet, geologists can't explain cartography with examples like Pirie Reis maps, or Orance Finee, Ahmed,etc, with the description of Antartic as it was 125.000 years ago, split (as it was discovered only in 20the Century) and without km of ice! That is not a map provided by Ets but a copy cat version of ancient maps in Holocene times, when cultivated men could draw maps. Geologists don't like to tell you human fishing nets and vessels, pots,etc found in geolocical strata supposedly happening millions of years ago. Interesting is the fact all methods to measure time are doubtful or based upon supositions. Even there's an explanation why dendrochronology method doesn't work either but I discussed the item previously. Go to theme Changes on Earth, etc. Also we can guide ourselves comparing with other myths worldwide, not just the Bible, of course.
IP: 200.243.173.252 |
atalante Member Posts: 1301 From: Tucson AZ USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted 09-23-2003 15:23
Riven, Here is a very intriguing piece of mythology, about Hercules and the Hesperides.It says that Atlas, and his brother were "rich in sheep". That comment really reminds me of "Eumelus" in Plato's Atlantis. Also it says that Heracles made war against Egypt, at a time when Pirates were running rampant around the Mediterranean. (e.g roughly one generation befoe the Trojan War.) But, perhaps most significantly, this quote says that Egypt made war against the Hesperides (and hence against "Atlantis"). I am quoting the following from Carlos Parada's mythology website, for the entry "Hesperides". "HESPERIDES kidnapped by pirates --- Likewise, they have explained that Atlas was an extraordinary astrologer, this being the reason why gossip—which always distorts truth—made him into a fantastic figure that carried the entire firmament upon his shoulders. They also explained that Atlas married his brother's daughter Hesperis, and had by her the HESPERIDES. The whole family possessed beautiful flocks of sheep which—as already stated—were of a golden yellow colour. Now, cruel King Busiris 2 of Egypt desired to get the HESPERIDES, being as he was sensitive to beauty, but not being able to conceive a better procedure, he dispatched pirates by sea in order to kidnap the girls. However, while the pirates were on their way, Heracles 1 came to Egypt and, for other reasons, killed Busiris 2. In the meantime, the pirates—now performing the orders of a dead man—seized the girls while they were playing in a certain garden, and sailed away. Unfortunately for them, Heracles 1 came upon them when they were taking a meal on the shore. Having learned from the HESPERIDES what had happened, he slew all the pirates and restored the girls to their father Atlas, who in gratitude, gave Heracles 1 the assistance he needed to perform the orders of his own tormentor, King Eurystheus of Mycenae."
IP: 198.81.26.168 |
atalante Member Posts: 1301 From: Tucson AZ USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted 09-23-2003 15:58
Riven, I am pleased by your last post, about Deimos and Dardanus 1. Now we have located another region which was colonized by "early Troy". Arcadia is the region in the center of the Peloponese Penninsula. And that Arcadia is where Deimos migrated, after leaving Troy. (note: Athens was also colonized by Troy/Ilios.) According to the recent excavator of Troy, we should call Troy I,II, and III by the description "maritime Troy", because it traded across the Aegean Sea. (Later levels of Troy would be described as "Anatolian Troy", because they mainly traded with the mainland. I think Troy III was destroyed around 2100 BC. Troy II was the first region in the Aegean to fabricate tin-bronze. And the archaeologists believe that when Troy II was destroyed, its survivors sailed to Syros, the capital of the Cyclades, based on the early arrival of tin-bronze to Syros. By coincidence, the huge Kestel tin mine, near Tarsus Turkey, ran out of tin at roughly the same time when Troy II or III were being destroyed. That Kestel tin mine had a near monopoly on tin. Kestel mine had been the primary tin supplier for Mesopotamia, in addition the Troy. The above details about tin tends to suggest why the Cyclades, and also Crete, would have needed to search for new sources of tin "in the western Mediterranean", around 2100 BC.
IP: 198.81.26.168 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-24-2003 09:05
And Poseidon gave to Atlas his mother's domain,the biggest and the best.Who is Poseidon's mother? RHEA 1 wife of CRONOS. Doesn't really explain where she was born other than possibly PHRYGIA where she was heavily worshipped and the Italians asked King Attalus (coincidence to ATLAS) if they could bring Cybele(Rhea1) to Italy. Then I think she settled in Crete where she gave birth to Zeus AFTER Poseidon. Seems like the 3 main sites are; A:Peloponnesia B:Crete C:Phrygia From Greek Mythology Link; http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Rhea1.html Rich-haired Rhea 1, also called Opis 5, or Cybele (after Mount Cybele in Phrygia), or Cybebe, or Dindymene (after Mount Dindymus in Phrygia), or Agdistis, or "The Mountain Mother", or "The Mother of the Gods", or "The Great Goddess", was highly worshipped in Phrygia with orgies, and is mostly remembered for having protected Zeus by wrapping a stone in clothes and given it to Cronos to swallow, as if it were the newborn child that he wished to destroy.
IP: 142.161.180.44 |
atalante Member Posts: 1301 From: Tucson AZ USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted 09-24-2003 14:21
Riven, You asked, who is Poseidon's mother (and what did Atlas inherit from her)? Let me turn that issue around.Many ancient peoples inherited through the mother. It was called matrilyny or matriarchal life. Then males became dominant. For example, the oracles of Delphi, etc were seized by "gods". If Atlas inherited "through his mother", perhaps this points to a switch from matriarhy to patriarchy. So perhaps Plato meant that the estate of Atlas's mother was her "right to rule", rather than something material, such as a castle, etc.
IP: 198.81.26.168 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-24-2003 14:34
Two of the oldest Greeks are;Phoroneus (1750bC-City of Phoroneus\Argos) Aegialus 2 (1850bC-Sicyon\Gulf of Corinth) These two are also brothers. Corinth was first named Ephyra or Ephyraea after the Oceanid Ephyra 1 who was the first to dwell in Corinth. Briareus assigned to POSEIDON the Isthmus of Corinth and the neighbouring lands,while to Helius, he assigned the height above the city (Acrocorinthus). Could this be the first real Hill of Acropolis? Corinthian harbours Lechaeum and Cenchrae named after the brothers Leches and Cenchrias. (Twins?) Sons of POSEIDON and Pirene 2. (Cleito 2?) Harbours full of din and clatter? Pirene 2 is a daughter of the River God Achelous. Pirene 2 later became a spring. Helius(Perseis'husband) gave Asopia(Sicyon) to Aloeus 2 (Aegialeus 2?) and Ephyraea(Corinth) to King Aeetes. Aeetes and Aloeus 2 were brothers also. Meanwhile as mentioned before we find ATLAS in Arcadia. This all seems rather confusing but could the mainland of Atlantis be related to Peloponnesia? Remember we're trying to deal with a time unknown to written records. A time when ships were unheard of(prior to 7000bC) Most Mythological records point to Peloponnesia. Just something to think about. [This message has been edited by Riven (edited 09-24-2003).] [This message has been edited by Riven (edited 09-28-2003).]
IP: 142.161.182.36 |
atalante Member Posts: 1301 From: Tucson AZ USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted 09-24-2003 14:35
The Egyptians probably did NOT have a sea god. So I have been puzzled by how Poseidon, a sea god, serves as the primary god in the Atlantis story, which Solon brought back from Egypt. The issue, it seems to me is that that some secondary attribute of Poseidon (not the sea) was involved in the story which Egyptian priests told to Solon. Therefore, I can suggest that it was Poseidon's role as "earthshaker" which was originally the focus of the Egyptian/Altantis story. Geb is the god who creates earthquakes in Egyptian mythology. So I hereby nominate Geb as a candidate, whose Egyptian name was "translated" by Solon into the name Poseidon. Myth - Geb Guide picks Geb was an Egyptian god who laid the egg from which the sun was hatched. Egyptian God Geb Known as the Great Cackler because of his association with geese. May have laid the egg from which the sun was hatched.
"Geb --- Earth god Geb, worshiped in Lower Egypt, was depicted as bearded with a goose on his head. His laughter was thought to cause earthquakes. Geb married his sister Nut, the sky goddess, without Re's permission, for which reason Re separated Earth and Sky." note: Geb was the god of lower Egypt, which is where Solon heard the Atlantis story.
IP: 198.81.26.168 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-24-2003 14:54
Atalante;Atlas inherited his GRANDMOTHER's land from Poseidon's mother who is RHEA 1. Cleito2 should be Atlas' mother according to Atlantology. According to Mythology Atlas was a Titan who was the offspring of Uranus and Gaia. Atlas' parents were Iapetus 1 and Clymene or Iapetus 1 and Asia 2 [This message has been edited by Riven (edited 09-24-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Riven (edited 09-28-2003).]
IP: 142.161.182.36 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-24-2003 15:37
Geb makes a good possible Sea God.Here are some others as well for Egypt. Tefnut-water God Hapi-Nile God. Hapi-Meht in Lower Egypt. Hapi-Reset in Upper Egypt. Hapi was portrayed as a bearded blue man with female breasts! Although he didn't seem to gain much popularity in cults later on. Osiris-in predynastic times there is mention of Osiris being a River God. Khnum-guarded the source of the Nile. [This message has been edited by Riven (edited 09-24-2003).]
IP: 142.161.182.36 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-24-2003 22:28
Atalante; Your Quote; "So I have been puzzled by how Poseidon, a sea god, serves as the primary god in the Atlantis story, which Solon brought back from Egypt."True that is quite the puzzle especially considering that the Egyptians and Greeks had close ties. So why didn't the Egyptians have a more distinct Sea God as well as Nile Gods? This probably adds more basis to Egyptians coming from the Fayum rather than the seas. It seems rather odd that this Egyptian priest comes to light around 600bC. Why isn't there another earlier Egyptian priest known to have told this story? Especially since it was passed down from predynastic Egypt.
IP: 142.161.177.33 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-25-2003 08:53
Here is Pausanias' description of a Temple in Corinth; "On the temple, which is not very large, stand bronze Tritons. In the fore-temple are images, two of Poseidon, a third of Amphitrite, and a Sea, which also is of bronze. The offerings inside were dedicated in our time by Herodes the Athenian, four horses, gilded except for the hoofs, which are of ivory,[2.1.8] and two gold Tritons beside the horses, with the parts below the waist of ivory. On the car stand Amphitrite and Poseidon, and there is the boy Palaemon upright upon a dolphin. These too are made of ivory and gold. On the middle of the base on which the car is has been wrought a Sea holding up the young Aphrodite, and on either side are the nymphs called Nereids". http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/pausanias-bk2.html Sounds kind of familiar. This is a very good article on Corinth. [This message has been edited by Riven (edited 09-25-2003).]
IP: 142.161.184.100 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-25-2003 09:17
Corinth http://www.abrock.com/Greece-Turkey/corinth.html Scroll down and check out the canal. Even though it was credited to Nero in 66 aD.
IP: 142.161.184.100 |
atalante Member Posts: 1301 From: Tucson AZ USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted 09-25-2003 17:00
Riven, your link: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/pausanias-bk2.html says that Poseidon began as the "land god" of Corinth. This resembles the ancient Egyptian god Geb, who was originally the god of the land, and he supported (or held up) his sister Nut the sky god. This seems to suggest that Geb was equivalent (in Egypt) to BOTH Atlas (holding up the sky) and Poseidon (ancient god of land, but later displaced to a lesser role). [This message has been edited by atalante (edited 09-26-2003).]
IP: 198.81.26.168 |
atalante Member Posts: 1301 From: Tucson AZ USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted 09-26-2003 03:38
Riven, According to Plato, Poseidon at first founded a land-based (proto-Atlantis) community for his wife Cleito. Plato says it was 1) before there were any sailors, and 2) about 10 stades inland from a large body of water.So the god of Atlantis began as a land based god, or a "god of land". (I suggested above that it was similar to Geb.) Strangely enough, according to Plato, it was the descendents of Atlas who converted Atlantis into a sea-based economy with canals, docks, etc. Doesn't this indicate that the Egyptian version of Atlas (at least in regard to the Egyptian Atlantis legend which Solon heard) was a sea god, or a water god, etc? And since the Egyptians did not have a SALT-WATER god, perhaps this indicates that Atlas revolted against Egypt at a very early date. Becoming a salt-water empire made Atlantis very alien to the Egyptian scheme of life.
IP: 198.81.26.168 |
atalante Member Posts: 1301 From: Tucson AZ USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted 09-26-2003 04:13
Riven, At the very beginning of this "tribes of atalntis" thread, you proposed that the Achaens swept into Greece around 2100 BC. Here in the last few days, we have been discussing a similar, but different, concept. Troy II and Troy III sent out several waves of colonists. Archaeologists know that tin-bronze manufacturing entered the Aegean via Troy II (maritime Troy), and moved to Syros Island, capital of the Cyclades, when Troy II was destroyed. Myth says that Poseidon and Apollo built the walls of Troy VI. Then Poseidon changed sides, and favored Greece during the Trojan war against Troy VII. Therefore, at some time between Troy III and Troy VI, (i.e. around 1500 BC according to the genealogies of Greek myths), Troy/Dardanus set up colonies at Athens and Arcadia (Peloponese). And the forming of those colonies was simultaneous with Smyrna (descendents of Pelops/Tantalus/Atlas) colonizing the coastlands of the "Peloponese". Land based people from Thessaly (northern Greece) made several attacks on early Athens, and early Aegialia/Corinth. But the colonies of Troy successfully repelled the northerners around 1450 BC. We know that Thera exploded around 1450 BC, and that Greek mythology probably called this the "flood of Deucalion", a tsunami which destroyed all coastline-Greek communitites. And myths tell us that afterwards, the "first man" to worship Hera on the Peloponese penninsula was Phoroneus. That destruction and rebuilding/colonizing of ancient Greece after a tsunami/flood/Thera is quite similar to what the Egyptian priest tells Solon in Plato's version of Atlantis legend. Based on the above scenario, we are moving the Atlantis theme back into a 2600 BC to 1450 BC time frame, rather than a Sea Peoples view of Atlantis. The descendents of Atlas/Troy invaded first the Island of Syros (Cyclades)2600-2300 BC at the end of Troy II, and then seized/colonized Athens and Arcadia around 1450 BC.
IP: 198.81.26.168 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-27-2003 13:54
As Erick noted in his metaphrasic translations that Etos(year) could be Etes(Clansmen)we also notice some peculiarity to the word PILLAR.Using Perseus Tufts translations we see that in; Crit.108e Stelas(Stele) =block of Stone. Crit 116d Kion(kionon)=a pillar Crit 119c Stelei=block of Stone Crit 119e Stelei Crit 120a Stelei Crit 108e is describing past the pillars of Hercules which we see in Greek-Stelas=block of stone Crit 116d they talk about the names inscribed on the pillar=Kionon Crit 119a-120a they talk about the slaying of the bulls over the stelei-block of stone Curious as to why they didn't use this word Kionon to describe past the pillars?? Also it seems that Poseidon's "main squeeze" who he first married is Amphitrite(Oceanid) according to Mythology. In Atlantology it's Cleito. Considering both tales are Poseidon's origin,would it be fair to say that Amphitrite and Cleito are the same person?
IP: 142.161.190.213 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-27-2003 19:21
It seems likely that both Poseidon and Atlas were born in Arcadia. According to the extensive research of Carlos Parada and his Greek Mythology Link, he notes the Arcadians as the first to reference Poseidon.One of the closest resemblences to Poseidon would be the Teutonic Norse God AEGIR who also had 9 daughters and his wife RAN. Bara,Bylgia,Blodughadda,Dufa,Hefring,Himinglaeva,Hronn,Kolga and Unn are his daughters. Poseidon also had numerous sons and daughters from many lovers. Abas 1-King of Euboea island. Achaeus 2-district of Aechea. Aeolus 3-Aeolian islands in Tyrrhenia. Aethusa Pleiades daughter. Agelus Agenor 1 born in EGYPT settled in Phoenicia. Aloeus 1 City of Alus,Aetolia. Althepus King of Troezan. Amphimarus father of Linus the musician. Amycus 1 Bebrycian King and ARGONAUTS. Ancaeus 2 King of Samos, an Argonaut. Antaeus 1 Hercules related Anthas founded Anthea and Halicarnassus Arion 1 a Horse Asopus River God from Phlius,daughter Aegina Aspledon Athena Lake Tritonis(mother)in Libya The 10 kings of Atlantis Augeas Hercules related Belus 1 King of Egypt Benthesicyme 2 daughters from an Ethiopian Boeotus Boeotian culture Busiris 2 Hercules related Celaenus 2 daughter of a DANAID Cenchrias Corinthian harbour Chios Chrysaor King of Iberia Chryses 1 Phlegyian King Corynetes bandit killed by Theseus Cromus 2 Cteatus Elean general against Hercules Cychreus King of Salamis (mother)island. Cycnus 1 King in Colonae,Troad city. Cymopolea given to Briareus in marriage Dercynus tried to steal the cattle of Geryon Despoina real name not to be revealed??? Dictys 4 Eleius 1 Eleans from Elis city. Eirene 2 Ephialtes 2 Epopeus 1 King of Sicyon Erginus 2 an Argonaut Eryx 1 King over the Elymi in Italy Eumolpus 1 killed by Erechtheus Euphemus 1 from Psamathe,an Argonaut Euphemus 4 Pleiade mother Eurypylus 4 King of Cos Eurytus 1 Elean general against Hercules. Eusiros Evadne 3 consorted with APOLLO. Halirrhothius Hellen 2 Hippothous 2 Calydonian hunter Hopleus 1 Hyperenor 1 founded Hyperea Hyrieus Ialebion tried to steal the kine of Geryon Idas 2 Argonaut and Calydonian hunter Laestrygon Ortygia isle culture Lamia 1 with Zeus daughter Sybil 1st oracle Leches Corinthian Harbour Lelex 2 from Egypt,later laconian King Leuconoe 2 Lycus 2 dwelt in the islands of the blest Lycus 6 killed by Hercules Megareus 2 Megara city,fought King Minos 2 Melas 4 Messapus fought against Aeneas in Italy Minyas Minyan culture Mygdon Bebrycian King,fought Amazons Nauplius 1 around Troy battle time Nausithous 1 Phaeacian King (Corcyra) Neleus a TWIN,founded Pylos Nireus 1 Nycteus 1 Oeoclus Onchestus 2 Onchestus city,Boeotia Orion power to stride across the sea Otus 1 Parnassus MT.Parnassus,oldest city in Phocis Pegasus winged horse Pelasgus 4 pelasgiotis country Pelias 1 King of Iolcus,Jason,Golden Fleece Peratus King of Sicyon Periclymenus 3 defender of Thebes Phaeax 1 gave Phaecians their name Phineus 2 King and seer from Salmydessus Phocus 4 Phocis named after him Phthius 2 Phthiotis country Poltys an Aenian Polyphemus 2 one eyed cannibal Procrustes killed by Theseus Proteus 2 Old Man of the Sea Ram 1 The Golden Fleece Rhode 2 Sarpedon 2 Sciron killed by Theseus Taphius Taphos city and Teleboan culture. Taras TELCHINES said to have nursed Poseidon Thasus Thasus city in island of Thrace Theseus too much too list here Triopas 2 Triton ATLAS????? Urea Whew,did you get all that? These are not in Chronological order. I fail to see why Greek Mythologists don't attribute the Atlantis genealogies with their Myth lineage. They tend to keep them separate. Atlantis was before Theseus. Chrysaor was a King of Iberia. Gadeirus?? Triton another possible Atlas?
IP: 206.45.162.233 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-27-2003 21:11
ANCIENT MARINERS By Valerie Martlew http://www.ensignmessage.com/mariners.html
IP: 142.161.0.91 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-27-2003 22:10
Let's pull out Poseidon's Kings.Abas 1 King of Euboea Althepus Troezan Amycus 1 Bebrycia Ancaeus 2 Samos Belus 1 Egypt Chrysaor Iberia Chryses 1 Phlegyia Cychreus Salamis Cycnus Colonae Epopeus Sicyon Eryx 1 Elymi,Italy Eurypylus Cos lelex 2 laconia Mygdon Bebrycia Pelias 1 Iolcus Peratus Sicyon Phineus 2 Salmydessus Theseus Athens Also some of Poseidon's offspring who had cities or cultures named after them could be considered as kings. So basically these kings should all be descendants of Atlantis and Atlas considering they are Poseidon's sons. Some have slight similiarities to the Atlantean Kings. Poseidon was an Olympian God as Atlas was a Titan. Uranus,Cronos,Rhea,Titans,Cyclopes, all seem related with Oceanus and the westerly direction which should make them closely related to Atlantis which would explain why Atlas became more familiarized with the Atlas mountains since they bordered Ocean. They could be a mix of Hyperborean(Celtic,Norse)and Greek cultures. Consider AEgir the Norse Sea God and this BRIAReus who arbitrated with Poseidon. Poseidon belonged to Greece and would have contributed to his inherited islands(Atlantis) destruction. Poseidon was a Sea God and not an Ocean God. Oceanus was an Ocean God. Most mysterious lands like Atlantis were beyond Oceanus. I really fail to see how Atlantis would be Spain or Morocco. There could be one way in my view that could credit Spain. That would be if Iberia at one time was in the Ocean and became landlocked later. Seems unfeasible in 9600bC though. Poseidon as Atalante and myself pointed out is also a Land God who retained the portion of Atlantis. As Atalante pointed out that most areas were named after their mothers(matriarchal), it makes me wonder if the Greek Heroine Atalanta had something to do with naming Atlantis? Even though we know it's credited to Atlas. These Kings also add validity to Atlantean control of Greece and Egypt. [This message has been edited by Riven (edited 09-27-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Riven (edited 09-28-2003).]
IP: 142.161.0.91 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-27-2003 22:40
What doesn't make sense is the Mediterranean basin filling up 5 million years ago.If you watch tectonic plate movement maps you'll notice that the mediterranean was always opened. Later as Africa pushed upward and landlocked did the mediterranean form. This event probably filled the Black,Red and Caspian seas as well the Ice Age meltdown.
IP: 142.161.0.91 |
atalante Member Posts: 1301 From: Tucson AZ USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted 09-28-2003 10:19
Riven, In regard to plate tectonics and the Med:Tectonics experts do not have a firm consensus about the Med. But generally, I think they feel that Africa slammed into Europe around 30 million years ago. (That is probably when the Canary Islands were shaken loose from mainland Africa.) More recently, the knot of mountains around Turkey (i.e. Mt Ararat) seems to be settling slowly, becoming lower but wider, and thus nudging Africa away from Europe. So I am not surprized to hear suggestions that the Med filled with water at any date around 5 million years ago.
IP: 198.81.26.168 |
atalante Member Posts: 1301 From: Tucson AZ USA Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted 09-28-2003 10:47
Riven, You were commenting on the Titans, and the Olympians.In Greek mythology, the Titans lived before, and were succeeded by, the Olympian gods. But Plato reversed that sequence in regard to Atlantis. Poseidon (olympian?) was the father of Atlas (titan?). I believe this anachronism was intentional. Plato wanted us to look in alien lands for the charaters Plato was calling Poseidon and Atlas (not in traditional Greek mythology). That's why Plato included a sketch about Solon translating many names from the Egyptian language into common Greek equivalent words.
IP: 198.81.26.168 |
Akata Member Posts: 798 From: Maribor,Gorenska,Slovenian Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-28-2003 14:02
no coment
------------------ --For The Pride Of -- ---Atlantien Race---
IP: 213.161.5.68 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-28-2003 14:19
Atalante;The only way I can see this mediterranean filling would be if the Oceans were lower a long time ago,AFTER Africa settled,to the extent that the mediterranean basin was almost dry. Whereas later due to another Ice Age(before last) the Ocean raised again filling the Basin,then the last Ice Age flooded the Basin. Akata; nice to hear from you.
IP: 142.161.183.195 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-28-2003 22:23
Sikyon, a town 11 miles northwest of Corinth in the northern Peloponnese The most ancient Greek city state The cradle of art Her first name was Aigialeia (Aigialean Ionians) from Aigialeos (1870 BC), who is mentioned as the founder of the city. Her second name was Telchis or Telchinia, from the king Telchin grandson of Aigialeos or from the Telchines, the famous metal workers, who according to Strabo were the first workers in iron and bronze. A later name was Mycone (mekon=poppy), given to her by the abundance of the poppy crop in the surrounding area, which had been brought here for cultivation, as Hesiod reports, or by the fact that Demeter discovered the poppy there, as the inhabitants traditionally believed. The territory in archaic times was called Asopia, from the Asopos river. We know that people (pelasgoi) lived in the area before Neolithic times (5000 - 3000 BC). Around 1900 BC, the Achaians (Ionians) made here their first settlement. http://www.sikyon.com/Sicyon/sicyon_egpg1.html This is a great website!
IP: 142.161.185.78 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-29-2003 00:08
Greek literary papyri http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/papyrus/texts/greek/literary.html Makes you wonder how we ever got stories out of these little bits of clues.
[This message has been edited by Riven (edited 09-29-2003).]
IP: 142.161.0.91 |
Akata Member Posts: 798 From: Maribor,Gorenska,Slovenian Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-29-2003 09:59
no one nows what tribes leaders were there idententi forgoten but for sure the name maybe match or not no one nows------------------ --For The Pride Of -- ---Atlantien Race---
IP: 213.161.5.68 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-30-2003 03:28
In the Old Kingdom mythology the sun Atum (or Aten) often appears as the first creator. He makes Shu and Tefnut (air and moisture) out of himself, and they in turn produce Geb and Nut (earth and sky). The children of the latter couple are Osiris, Isis, Seth, and Nepthys. Thus the first four deities establish the cosmos, and the later four are mediators between humans and the cosmos. Atalante; according to Georgeos latest post he claims this God Shu to be Atlas. I think your God Geb makes a better Atlas. Here's a good link; http://interoz.com/egypt/heliogod.htm [This message has been edited by Riven (edited 09-30-2003).]
IP: 142.161.178.243 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-30-2003 03:50
Atalante;Re Seb or Geb as per; http://interoz.com/egypt/heliogod.htm He is also described as one of the porters of heaven's gate, who draws back the bolts, and opens the door in order that the light of Ra may stream upon the world, and when he set himself in motion his movements produced thunder in heaven and quaking upon earth. This adds more basis to your theory of Geb as Atlas besides being an Earth God!!! Check this out; Book of the Dead, Chapter xvii, line 61. According to this passage the gods Ammiu, sparng from the drops of blood which fell from Ra after the process of mutilation, and Dr. Brugsch compared the action of Osiris in shutting in, his father Seb with the punishment which Kronos inflicted upon his father Uranus because he threw the Cyclopes into Tartarus, and the Ammiu gods had an origin somewhat simular to that of the Erinnyes. Osiris compares to Cronos!!! As I mentioned that Cronos and the Titans were from Atlantis!!!
IP: 142.161.178.243 |
Riven Member Posts: 1655 From: Canada Registered: May 2003
|
posted 09-30-2003 05:07
Oddly though, almost as soon as this protoagriculture was developed, it appears to have been abandoned. Beginning around 10,500 BC, the stone sickles that were so predominant seem to simply fade out of the picture and there is a return to the hunter-gatherer-fisher culture that came before. Invasion by another people is a possible explanation, though a series of natural disasters that devastated the fledgling crops is more logical, as we are dealing with abandonment by not one, but many prehistoric societies over a widespread area. At first it would seem that the growing aridity of the environment was the cause. Certainly, given the present state of the Sahara and the surrounding area, this is a logical conclusion, but new evidence shows that this period was marked by a series of rather severe and violent Nile floods which could have destroyed the "farmlands" and discouraged the people from continuing to rely on crops as a dietary index.It was about this time that the demise of the various Paleolithic peoples in Egypt began. It may very well be that the abandonment of protoagriculture contributed to this, but the discovery of the Jebel Sahaba cemetery sheds some new light on the end of many Paleolithic cultures. In all, three Qadan cemeteries are known: one at Tushka, and two at Jebel Sahaba, one on each side of the river. Although many of the remains unearthed at these sites are the usual cross-section of elderly and young, chieftains and commoners, there are quite a disturbing number of bodies from the final 10,000 years of the Upper Paleolithic that appear to have died by violence. Stone points found with the remains were almost all located in areas of the body that suggests penetration as spear points or similar weapons. Most were located in the chest and back area, with others in the lower abdomen, and even a few entering the skull through the lower jaw or neck area! Additionally, the lack of bony calluses as a result of healing near these points shows that in many of these cases the wound was fatal (bone tissue repairs itself rather quickly, preliminary healing often begins before even that of soft tissues). A statistical analysis of the main cemetery at Jebel Sahaba gives a figure of 40 percent of the people buried there died from wounds due to thrown projectiles; spears, darts, and arrows. Why then was a hunter-gatherer culture so prone to violence? One explanation is diminishing resources, caused by the growing aridity and the failure of the protoagriculture experiments. The Jebel Sahaba cemeteries must only have been used for a few generations and for that many violent deaths to occur within that time supports an explanation based on massive intertribal warfare. Also, since the victims were of all ages (except infants; only one infant is buried in each of the Jebel Sahaba cemeteries), this could indicate that the majority of the skirmishes were actually based on raiding and ambush, as "normal" warfare usually only involves young to middle-aged males. And we should not dismiss the possibility of invasion by a more advanced, or at least more powerful, people from outside, especially if Jebel Sahaba and similar sites date to as late as 7000 BC, as by then the people would have been in competition with larger and more advanced Epipaleolithic cultures. http://www.touregypt.net/ebph3.htm Could this be evidence of an Atlantean invasion relating to 9600bC??????? [This message has been edited by Riven (edited 09-30-2003).]
IP: 142.161.178.243 | |