posted 08-14-2002 15:19         

It did not hope less of You. It says refran:

"there is no worse blind person than the one than does not want to see"

I am perfectly conscious that by many irrebatibles and unquestionable tests that it can offer in this Forum on the only possible location of Atlantis - the one that describes Plato that is, in front of Gibraltar between the Iberian Peninsula, Africa and the Madeiras- Islands never I will obtain that these tests not even are considered by all those that create fervently that Isla-Peni'nsula Atlantis was in Indonesia and not in the mouth of the Atlantic in front of Gibraltar and near Cadiz (Andalusia, Spain) as it affirms Plato.

The force of a belief that is, of a dogma, or religious or theoretical, is something truely incommensurable. All those that you create and you accept, unfounded scientist, who Atlantis was in Indonesia or any other point of the World as in the Andes or the Antártida resorts to the argument of the force, whereas I go to the force of the argument.

I trust that you reflect with depth on this subject. I trust that you become this question:

What is more important to defend a scientific unfounded hypothesis by pure affection, because of faith or to defend the search of the truth, is where it is, it is as it is, and it falls that falls?

Respectful greetings of Georgeos Diaz-Montexano

------------------
"International society of Atlantología Scientific" The first one and only List upon the scientific study of the Atlántida in Hispanic tongue dedicated exclusively to the study and to the scientific discussion upon the historic existence of the Civilization of Atlantis and its possible location in the only point in which situates it Platon that is to say, "next to the Columns of Hércules (Gibraltar) and the region of Gades (Cádiz)". All the information upon the Atlántida: the complete dialogues of Platón in its original versions Greek-greco-latinas; and other old texts in other tongues as the Egyptian, where reference is done to the Atlántida facing Gibraltar among Iberia and Africa. The scientific but recent investigations and rigorous in matter of geology and arqueología that permit to show that if the Atlántida existed really alone could be in algun point among Gibraltar and the Island Madeira.
The Theories and Contents of this place Have Been Rewarded for the Prestigious Entries of E-Listas.Net, Monografías.Com and Recognized by the MSN of Microsoft.
The Investigations of Georgeos Díaz-Montexano Sánchez recognized by the Agency of Press and the Department of Education of Microsoft.
It reads the article and later returns if you desire to expand information. ¡We will be expecting you!

Georgeos@ArchaeoTour.com

http://usuarios.lycos.es/atlantisiberia/index.htm

posted 08-14-2002 16:00         

Then, because it does not show which are those scientific tests and multiple historical reasons that they would allow to locate to the Atlantis de Plato in Indonesia.

I know the works Zias and Arisio and those of Graham Hancock and I have not seen nor a single test that has not been able to refute it with another one scientist much more.

In order to begin him advance that all these investigators, by which You show a great admiration, are based on simple speculations, manipulations and distortions of the data contributed by Plato.

All their arguments are based on the following type of reasoning: "perhaps Plato which quizo to say was this and it another one..." or "what it happened was not perhaps this..." or also this type of reasoning, "Plato or Solón or the Priests hid the reality, disguised the true facts...", "the Atlantis was the name that the Greeks would give another civilization that existed in India or Sumeria..."

In short, which all the reasonings are of the speculative type, subjective. Everything in works of the mentioned authors is estimated, assumed, assumed and until it affirms of categorical way and dogmatic, whereas the true scientific arguments, that stop to begin would be those that left from the direct translations of the dialogues of Plato written in Greek or Latin, simply do not exist.

If You consider scientist the work made by these authors on Atlantis in Indonesia, she is because or You have a concept a little deformed of which it is the true scientific rigor or because You you demand very little to the scientific method.

Of all ways, if You are so safe of which she announces, him challenge to that You here expose mimso, in front of all, which are those scientific tests and multiple historical reasons that, according to You, supports the hypothesis of Atlantis in Indonesia.

I promise to him that - always from the greater one of the respect I will refute and disassemble them all, one by one.

Respectful greetings of Georgeos Diaz-Montexano

------------------
"International society of Atlantología Scientific" The first one and only List upon the scientific study of the Atlántida in Hispanic tongue dedicated exclusively to the study and to the scientific discussion upon the historic existence of the Civilization of Atlantis and its possible location in the only point in which situates it Platon that is to say, "next to the Columns of Hércules (Gibraltar) and the region of Gades (Cádiz)". All the information upon the Atlántida: the complete dialogues of Platón in its original versions Greek-greco-latinas; and other old texts in other tongues as the Egyptian, where reference is done to the Atlántida facing Gibraltar among Iberia and Africa. The scientific but recent investigations and rigorous in matter of geology and arqueología that permit to show that if the Atlántida existed really alone could be in algun point among Gibraltar and the Island Madeira.
The Theories and Contents of this place Have Been Rewarded for the Prestigious Entries of E-Listas.Net, Monografías.Com and Recognized by the MSN of Microsoft.
The Investigations of Georgeos Díaz-Montexano Sánchez recognized by the Agency of Press and the Department of Education of Microsoft.
It reads the article and later returns if you desire to expand information. ¡We will be expecting you!

Georgeos@ArchaeoTour.com

http://usuarios.lycos.es/atlantisiberia/index.htm

posted 08-14-2002 18:32         

------------------
"International society of Atlantología Scientific" The first one and only List upon the scientific study of the Atlántida in Hispanic tongue dedicated exclusively to the study and to the scientific discussion upon the historic existence of the Civilization of Atlantis and its possible location in the only point in which situates it Platon that is to say, "next to the Columns of Hércules (Gibraltar) and the region of Gades (Cádiz)". All the information upon the Atlántida: the complete dialogues of Platón in its original versions Greek-greco-latinas; and other old texts in other tongues as the Egyptian, where reference is done to the Atlántida facing Gibraltar among Iberia and Africa. The scientific but recent investigations and rigorous in matter of geology and arqueología that permit to show that if the Atlántida existed really alone could be in algun point among Gibraltar and the Island Madeira.
The Theories and Contents of this place Have Been Rewarded for the Prestigious Entries of E-Listas.Net, Monografías.Com and Recognized by the MSN of Microsoft.
The Investigations of Georgeos Díaz-Montexano Sánchez recognized by the Agency of Press and the Department of Education of Microsoft.
It reads the article and later returns if you desire to expand information. ¡We will be expecting you!

Georgeos@ArchaeoTour.com

http://usuarios.lycos.es/atlantisiberia/index.htm

posted 08-15-2002 05:33         

I such write messages in such places where one asks or it questions points such to me. I have all the right to do it and if to You you bother to him... that one is its problem.

To my also it could bother to me whenever I time and time again see its messages by all the sites repeating the same undocumented affirmations that violate the true words of Plato. Perhaps nevertheless, it does not bother to me..., because I am more tolerant and more democratic.

On the other hand... Are You perhaps the owner or the moderator of the forums of Atlantis Rising?

Respectful greetings of Georgeos Diaz-Montexano

------------------
"International society of Atlantología Scientific" The first one and only List upon the scientific study of the Atlántida in Hispanic tongue dedicated exclusively to the study and to the scientific discussion upon the historic existence of the Civilization of Atlantis and its possible location in the only point in which situates it Platon that is to say, "next to the Columns of Hércules (Gibraltar) and the region of Gades (Cádiz)". All the information upon the Atlántida: the complete dialogues of Platón in its original versions Greek-greco-latinas; and other old texts in other tongues as the Egyptian, where reference is done to the Atlántida facing Gibraltar among Iberia and Africa. The scientific but recent investigations and rigorous in matter of geology and arqueología that permit to show that if the Atlántida existed really alone could be in algun point among Gibraltar and the Island Madeira.
The Theories and Contents of this place Have Been Rewarded for the Prestigious Entries of E-Listas.Net, Monografías.Com and Recognized by the MSN of Microsoft.
The Investigations of Georgeos Díaz-Montexano Sánchez recognized by the Agency of Press and the Department of Education of Microsoft.
It reads the article and later returns if you desire to expand information. ¡We will be expecting you!

Georgeos@ArchaeoTour.com

http://usuarios.lycos.es/atlantisiberia/index.htm

posted 08-15-2002 18:42         

Dear colleagues:

I have elaborated this table with the most singular characteristics of Atlantis described in the historical and traditional dialogues of the Timaios and Kritias by Plato and elements closely related to Atlantis.

This table unlike the elaborated ones by other famous investigators of Atlantis omits the more general and ambiguous elements of comparison based on geographic, biological and cultural characteristics that could be in many Earth points like for example: "Subject to floods", "Subject to earthquakes", "irrigation; canals ", "Elephants", "Great ships and marine commerce", "Horses and to war chariots", "low marine bottoms and with dangerous stumbling blocks for navigation", "next to an archipelago or group of islands", "Riches in metals gold, to silver and mount to copper", "two crops to year. One by means of irrigation by channels "and" Scripture AT the Time of the collapse of Atlantis ".

However, I must clarify that all these elements also are present in the area between the Southwest of the Iberian Peninsula (Spain and Portugal), the Northwest of Africa and the Madeiras Islands.

The rest of the comparative elements used by other authors like the famous Arisio Nuñez do Santos, for example: "continental size", "tropical climate", "coconuts, pineapples, and incenses", "megalithic construction", "volcanism", "pyramid cult", "sargassos is beyond", "terraced mountain cultivation", and "or blood group", I have simply not considered them not to be in the dialogues of the Timaios and the Kritias de Plato.

These false elements used properly by Mr. Nuñez do Santos are absolutely subjective. They are the product of a clear exercise of real unfounded deductive speculation. Plato never says that Isla-Peni'nsula de Atlantis was a continent, on the contrary, at any moment he talks about to Atlantis like a "Nêsos" that in Greek was used to denominate to the Islands or Peninsulas. But to Mr. Nuñez do Santos this gives him equal. As it either does not seem to at all concern to Mr. Nuñez do Santos, that in the dialogues of the Timaios and the Kritias de Plato does not say that Isla-Peni'nsula Atlantis outside "tropical climate either". Plato single says the following thing:

". ..ousa huph' hêliôi nêsos hurts kala you kai thaumasta. .."
And this is translated:

". ..it existed under the light of the sun the Island, sagrada, beautiful and wonderful. .."

Nuñez do Santos nevertheless interprets these words because Plato meant that Atlantis had a "tropical climate". This is only a subjective speculation, since the words of Plato, if they were even translated like "low the low sun" instead of "the light of the sun", would not mean that necessarily we must interpret that he meant to us, with this metaphor, that Isla-Peni'nsula de Atlantis was in the equatorial line. In fact many identical appointments in old Greek texts exist talking about to countries of the Mediterranean and places of the Iberian Peninsula and of Mauritania. Plato says in fact that the Atlantis Island was "under the light of the sun", and peculiarly, all the coast that goes from Gibraltar to Cadiz knows him from remote times like the "Coast of the Light". The old mount names and rivers that exist in the same area, from the etimológico point of view, also allude to the luminosity. In fact, the totality of the year the coasts of the existing area between Spain and Africa, from Gibraltar and to the Madeiras Islands are "under the light of the Sun" that is just like to say illuminated or sunny.

It either does not speak to Plato of "" coconuts, pineapples, and incenses", nevertheless, once again the investigating outstanding, the prestigious one and famous academic Nuñez do Santos does not seem to concern so large falsification to him. It is limited to repeat what numerous investigators already have said before. Plato nonsingle the incense does not mention these fruits nor but that not even says nothing that allows to deduce this so speculative conclusion. Plato single speech of fruits in general and perfumes or extracted essences of plants and flowers. This exists anywhere of the world. It never specifies to that type of perfumes or olorosas essences talks about, since not even mentions the name of a single plant. Plato only speech of obtained fruits of fruit trees that cultivate themselves in orchards and that were used like drinks the pleasure in the celebrations. It could be talking about to the fruit of the grapevine or grape with which the wines became, although I insist in which it gives to names no neither of the fruits nor of the plants, reason why could be any fruit of the Mediterranean or ibero-mauritano surroundings.

To Nuñez do Santos either does not matter to him at all to continue contributing the sad task of perpetuating the lie when it uses like elements to identify to Atlantis all a series of false elements or false data that never Plato mentioned by mouth of Kritias, like the "megalíticas cosntrucciones", "volcanism", "pyramid cult", "sargassos are beyond", "terraced mountain cultivation", and "or blood group". All this, I insist, they are not more than created speculative deductions or invented by which they have been empecinado, unfounded some, in placing more to Isla-Peni'nsula de Atlantis in the places that to them desires to them more or gets along to them.

However, if Nuñez do Santos, Graham Hancok or Zia Abbas think that Plato mentions all these elements and data of that same way, because the only thing that they have to do is to demonstrate it, showing us all the students and readers of studies on Atlantis the original fragments of the dialogues of the Timaios and the Kritias written in Greek and/or Latin where they appear those so surprising elements and those data. However, I notice that they are going it to have very difficult. I almost know memory the dialogues of the Timaios and the Kritias de Plato. I have studied them and translated directly from Greek and the Latin. I conserve them between my materials of forced consultation and no matter how much I review them and I return to review I have found nor a single one of these fantastic affirmations of the mentioned investigators. In all the cases, these elements and data that use are not more than interpretativas deductions or subjective speculations. In no case they are the true words of Plato.

That the unconditional followers need more such investigators and their hypotheses absurd and falseadas on Atlantis to be convinced of the absolute lack of scientific rigor of these hypotheses?

How many tests need their fervent defenders more to be convinced that those hypotheses on the Atlantis de Plato in as different places as Indonesia, the $andes, the Caribbean or the own Antártida - that they as much admire and defend, sometimes with passion are not more than undocumented speculations than nothing has to do with only the Atlantis described in the antiquity with that name that is, the Atlantis de Plato?

I have been reflecting on the fact of porqué most of that they read my messages and articles on my discoveries in relation to true the Atlantis de Plato, or usually they ignore my messages and to continue writing its messages promoting its undocumented hypotheses on strange Atlantises that do not keep relation some with the words from Plato as if they had not read my messages nor those of the few that if they have done it and until have commented them.
I create to have found the true cause or reason by which my discoveries on the Atlantis de Plato and his only possible location between Gibraltar and the Madeiras Islands are not accepted by most of the students and consuming readers of books and studies on this enigmatic civilization.

My studies are not rejected, despised or ignored by the majority, to lack probability, scientific rigor or common sense. No, the reason, since is not that my studies are absolutely rigorous because they are based on the direct translation of original texts written in Greek and in Latin. My studies are based on which Plato really said, not in which he believes that he could have said. My studies are based on objective data; in logical reasonings directly related to the data contributed by Plato. Data and resisted facts are based on. Never in unfounded subjective speculations real. The main test of the solidity of my studies and my discoveries on Atlantis is that while I yes can refute and demonstrate the falsification of the other hypotheses on Atlantis, nobody still has been able to refute my main argumentations.

I believe that the true reason or cause, the true reason by which most of the people interested in Atlantis when they read my messages usually they ignore them, as if had not read them, is that if got to accept my discoveries on Atlantis on the one hand not they would have left more remedy than to completely leave their good loved hypothesis, but worse still, if my studies and discoveries on true the Atlantis, the Atlantis de Plato, and his only location possible front to Gibraltar between Spain, Africa and the Madeiras Islands, arrived to be accepted by most of the people, investigators, and publishers, something terrible would happen. .. the subject of the Atlantis would pass to be a File X or a mystery without solution to a being Resolute Sujet!

This fact is what the defenders and followers of the hypotheses of Indonesia really fear, the Antártida, the Andes, the Caribbean, the Antártida, in aim of all the existing hypotheses on Atlantis far from Gibraltar and the Madeiras.

This is what the followers of all the existing hypotheses fear more not only on Atlantis but until those consuming readers of mysteries and enigmas of the past and of course the book publishers and magazines specialized in mysteries.
If my studies arrived to be accepted, more likely, the subject of Atlantis would become a "closed subject automatically". From then, it would only be possible to be deepened as far as the exact place where it could appear the main body of the civilization, but always within the frame of the area which I have drawn up and which it goes from the Straits of Gibraltar to the Madeiras Islands, between the Iberian Peninsula and the Northwest of Africa. From which my studies and discoveries on Atlantis are accepted and disclosed of massive way by means of books and magazines, as of that moment, nobody could more speculate on other hypotheses of Atlantis in other places of the world, that is not in the area which I have needed according to the true words of Plato. And worse still, nobody could more invent no new hypothesis on the location of Atlantis.
This is the pure and sad reality by which my studies and discoveries are not accepted, but a very high dose is needed value and sincerity to recognize it.
I hope that all you mainly reflect this and that in the end it ends up prevailing in your souls and your minds noblest and elevated principle in the search of the wisdom: "To look for the truth, it is where it is, it is as it is and it falls that falls".

Respectful greetings for all of Georgeos Diaz-Montexano.

_____________________________________________

Comparative table of singular and specific elements related to Atlantis and the historical tradition and its correspondence with the main hypotheses on the location of Atlantis.
[I: Location Between Gibraltar and the Madeiras Islands (Spain, Portugal and Morocco) II: Mid-Atlantic III: Cornwall IV: Cuba V: Bolivia South America VI: Antarctica VII: Crete VIII: South China Sea or The East Indies (Indonesia)]

=============================================================
Location
and
Characteristics------I - II - III - IV - V - VI - VII - VIII
_____________________________________________________________
An Island or
Peninsula -----------Yes--yes--yes--yes---no--no---yes----yes
_____________________________________________________________
Before or
next to
Columns of
Hercules
(Gibraltar) ---------Yes--no--no---no----no---no---no-----no
_____________________________________________________________
It limited
with Gades
or Cadiz ------------Yes--no--no---no----no---no---no-----no
_____________________________________________________________
Near the Atlas
(Morocco) -----------Yes--no--no---no----no---no---no-----no
_____________________________________________________________
Riches in metals
gold, silver;
and mount copper ----Yes--?---no---no---yes---no---no----yes?
_____________________________________________________________
Scripture at the
time of the
collapse of
Atlantis ------------Yes--?---no---no---no----?---yes-----no
_____________________________________________________________
Historical
tradition and
legend on
existing the
Atlantis Island
until the
Medieval Time -------Yes--no--no---no---no----no---no------no
_____________________________________________________________
Historical
tradition on
genealogy of
Atlanteans Kings
present in the
historiography
until the
Medieval Time -------Yes--no--no---no---no----no---no------no
_____________________________________________________________
Unquestionable
archaeological
evidences, of
the contact
continued
with Greek
and Egyptian --------Yes---?--no---no---no----no---yes-----no

_____________________________________________________________
Scores (%Right) -----100%-10%-10%--10%--20%---0%---30%----20%
=============================================================

Leyenda:
I: Location Between Gibraltar and the Madeiras Islands
(Sapin, Portugal and Morocco)
II: Mid-Atlantic
III: Cornwall
IV: Cuba
V: South America
VI: Antarctica
VII: Crete
VIII: South China Sea or The East Indies (Indonesia)
Copyright: Georgeos Díaz-Montexano

---------------------------------------------
"a list of the excessive declarations on the Atlantis would be an absolutely good document for the study of the human stupidity" (Franz Susemihl, 1856)

------------------
"International society of Atlantología Scientific" The first one and only List upon the scientific study of the Atlántida in Hispanic tongue dedicated exclusively to the study and to the scientific discussion upon the historic existence of the Civilization of Atlantis and its possible location in the only point in which situates it Platon that is to say, "next to the Columns of Hércules (Gibraltar) and the region of Gades (Cádiz)". All the information upon the Atlántida: the complete dialogues of Platón in its original versions Greek-greco-latinas; and other old texts in other tongues as the Egyptian, where reference is done to the Atlántida facing Gibraltar among Iberia and Africa. The scientific but recent investigations and rigorous in matter of geology and arqueología that permit to show that if the Atlántida existed really alone could be in algun point among Gibraltar and the Island Madeira.
The Theories and Contents of this place Have Been Rewarded for the Prestigious Entries of E-Listas.Net, Monografías.Com and Recognized by the MSN of Microsoft.
The Investigations of Georgeos Díaz-Montexano Sánchez recognized by the Agency of Press and the Department of Education of Microsoft.
It reads the article and later returns if you desire to expand information. ¡We will be expecting you!

Georgeos@ArchaeoTour.com

http://usuarios.lycos.es/atlantisiberia/index.htm

posted 08-16-2002 02:06         

Sheraz:

I was of the understanding that you’ve obtained a doctorate in some area in physics. So what happened to your thesis? Did it get rejected for publication, as so many seem to these days due to the publishing groups becoming increasingly tight-fisted?

Regards, SQII.

posted 08-16-2002 02:47         

Try:
http://www.oup.co.uk/isbn/0-19-814479-2

:-)